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09-03-2020, 06:32 AM - 1 Like   #16
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The 12-24 has significant fringing in quite a lot of situations. Compared to the DA15 it has much better edge resolution but it renders a "flatter" picture. The DA15 will show subtle colour differences that you cant see with the 12-24.

I don't own the 11-18 but I researched it before going ff. It seems to me the 11-18 is close to the DA15 rendering but performs better resolution wise and fringes less than the 12-24. As seen in the pentax forum tests the edges arent as good as one can hope. But the over all quality of the images is great.

09-03-2020, 07:47 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by pres589 Quote
This may sound silly, but I think if I made money with my photography (or was so independently wealthy that none of this mattered, which if it did you wouldn't be here asking about it) I would rent an 11-18 and see if it would replace the 14 and 12-24 that you already own. If I didn't, I wouldn't spend the money to make the change. I'm suggesting selling the 14 as I believe the optical qualities of the 11-18 overlap so much as to make the 14 redundant. The DA 15 is something else that I couldn't see selling as well.

The 11-18 seems great but I couldn't justify that swap at all for myself.
The rent before splashing money is a good idea but it's difficult to rent Pentax equipments where I live. Usually I counter that by only buy used lenses at good price, so if I don't like them I can resell later at similar price, so no loss. If I ever get the 11-18, surely the 12-24 will have to go, but the 14 is a hard case, I quite like its images, even better than the 15, though the 15 will also stay due to its limited advantage. Also I have to be careful because since the COVID I have observed a big drop in used Pentax gears price.

---------- Post added 09-03-20 at 07:49 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by aslyfox Quote
a very serious consideration

especially with a young child and other possible needs to spend funds on

but if you can persuade the spouse

why not
It was a joke, but yeah sometimes I feel a bit guilty after purchasing a lens, thinking that money could be spent for something else for my family. That doesn't stop me from acquiring a lot of overlapping lenses though.

---------- Post added 09-03-20 at 07:55 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
I have the 12-24 and have really enjoyed it over the years. However, if I had not gone to FF I would have sold it and bought the 11-18. Why? Just because I guess. Since my primary body is the K-1 and my second body the K-3II the 12-24 is more than good enough. Particularly since most of my wide angle shots are with the K-1 and the DFA 15-30.

That said, if I had your dilemma I would sell the 12-24 and the 14 and buy the 11-18. You do not say what other lenses you have but you mentioned the 16-50. If so the 11-18 paired with the 16-50 covers things nicely. Keep the 15mm because it is the 15mm. I sold mine and miss it.
This, to tell you the truth I like the photos from K1+15-30 people post on this forum a lot. I know there are a lot of skills and such, but even technically, the sharpness, clarity, contrast and colour are obvious to see. I want those from my photos. Since I'm not going to FF anytime soon, if the 11-18 can be comparable with the 15-30 optically (I have a KP which is a baby-K1), it might be a good investment. The 12-24 is actually a very good lens, very sharp and versatile, but for some reasons I found the images a bit lacking, be it colour or contrast I can't explain, I just like photos from the 14 a bit more.

---------- Post added 09-03-20 at 07:57 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by cport Quote
... and I have never regretted. It is really an excellent lens. The longer I have it the more I like it, especially in harsh conditions! But I did not have 15 and 14 ...

So it is up to you, what is your style of shooting. 12-24 is really good, especially in terms of sharpness, it does have nicer starburst! But what I did not like was the flare resistance when shooting sunsets, I was unable to remove some of them and it looked ugly. So I decided to do the move ...

Looking back, I would have done this again. There is one more big pro for 11-18 - the autofocus when shooting reports. AF of 11-18 is not even faster, but it is more reliable, even in AF-C (both lenses on the same KP).
Thank you, aside from flare resistance, do find improvement in other areas when it comes to image quality?

---------- Post added 09-03-20 at 07:58 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by cport Quote
... and I have never regretted. It is really an excellent lens. The longer I have it the more I like it, especially in harsh conditions! But I did not have 15 and 14 ...

So it is up to you, what is your style of shooting. 12-24 is really good, especially in terms of sharpness, it does have nicer starburst! But what I did not like was the flare resistance when shooting sunsets, I was unable to remove some of them and it looked ugly. So I decided to do the move ...

Looking back, I would have done this again. There is one more big pro for 11-18 - the autofocus when shooting reports. AF of 11-18 is not even faster, but it is more reliable, even in AF-C (both lenses on the same KP).
Thank you, aside from flare resistance, do find improvement in other areas when it comes to image quality?

---------- Post added 09-03-20 at 08:46 AM ----------

How does Pentax's warranty work by the way? The question sound silly, but fact is I have never bought anything brand new from Pentax, if I go for this lens it will be likely my very first new purchase. If I have trouble with the lens, or if it has issues, like decentering, etc, would Pentax support?
09-03-2020, 09:22 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bui Quote
How does Pentax's warranty work by the way?
Warranty varies by country. In the USA it is one year. I think Europe is 2 years or maybe 3, but regardless it is based on the local laws. Best advice for a new lens is to immediately test it thoroughly and scientifically. Most retailers allow a return period and it is much easier to return a faulty lens to the retailer than it is to try going through a warranty claim.


In my experience initial testing makes sure you have a 'good copy' of the lens. No de-centering or other manufacturing issues. After that, you rely on the warranty from Pentax for anything that shows up 6 months or a year later. I've sent several lenses in for warranty repair over the years and never had any problems getting them to honor the warranty.
09-03-2020, 09:29 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Warranty varies by country. In the USA it is one year. . . .
in the US if you use the right credit card there is additional 2 year warranty

it runs along with the original warranty so it isn't all that great but does get you an additional year

you do need to check with the credit card folks to see if there is one in your country

____________

QuoteOriginally posted by Bui Quote
The rent before splashing money is a good idea but it's difficult to rent Pentax equipments where I live. . . .
I wonder if any vendor in the area that the OP lives offers a return policy

if so, that might be a way to handle not trying out a lens before buying

of course, this probably would rule out buying an " experienced " lens

the OP could check out the forum's marketplace, it is sortable by country/region

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/24-photographic-equipment-sale/?security...0&loc=EU&all=1


Last edited by aslyfox; 09-03-2020 at 09:36 AM.
09-03-2020, 12:37 PM - 1 Like   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by aslyfox Quote
in the US if you use the right credit card there is additional 2 year warranty
Good point! And one that many people (especially me) forget all about. In some cases your credit card company can be your friend.
09-03-2020, 12:40 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Good point! And one that many people (especially me) forget all about. In some cases your credit card company can be your friend.
and they hate it when you use the card and pay off the balance so they can't charge you any interest

win/win if you can do it
09-03-2020, 02:18 PM - 1 Like   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bui Quote
I just like photos from the 14 a bit more.
It is interesting these days to compare prime lenses with very good or excellent zoom lenses in the same range. In some respects it is possible for the zoom lens to win. For example, at 14mm your DA 12-24mm will exhibit near zero linear distortion, which is unbeatable. But your DA 14mm prime might prove superior in many other ways, and it has the f/2.8 capability, in addition to that rare closeup capacity for a WA lens.

09-03-2020, 11:08 PM - 1 Like   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bui Quote

----


---------- Post added 09-03-20 at 07:57 AM ----------

Ad cport

Thank you, aside from flare resistance, do find improvement in other areas when it comes to image quality?

11-18 has slightly worse linear distorsion, but is also almost abberation free.


Anyway, apart from huge difference in AF precision and AW, the overall handling is the biggest advantage - having FOCUS CLAMP when using filter? It is amazing. Even zooming is not an issue because 11-18 is parfocal.


But sure, not everybody will use this.
09-04-2020, 12:35 AM - 1 Like   #24
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I have not used the 12-24, but I'm a massive fan of the DA*11-18 for all the reasons cport just mentioned. The build quality and general handling are exceptional.

Compared to my DFA15-30, it is also dramatically smaller and lighter, and takes filters which are conveniently the same size as my DFA24-70, giving me a very useful two lens/two body landscape combination.
09-04-2020, 06:06 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bui Quote
It's quite hard to find a direct comparison of this lenses with others.
Not sure if you have seen this but tucked away on the Ricoh Pentax website is a comparison of the 12-24 with the 11-18.

Product Overview | HD PENTAX-DA?11-18mmF2.8ED DC AW | PENTAX STAR LENS | RICOH IMAGING

What I am about to say may not help your marriage! The DA*11-18 is very, very good. I have a DA15 which I have always loved but in a direct comparison at 15 mm and f8, it doesn't keep up with the new kid. There is a post with pics by @acoufap in the KP thread that indicates similar.


Hope this helps, or at least doesn't cause too much angst!
09-04-2020, 06:30 PM   #26
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The DA 15 probably isn't on paper up to the optical quality mark of the 11-18. It also gives lovely starburst in original SMC format, gives great colors, handles nicely, and is so small. I really can't see being a Pentax crop body owner without one again.
09-04-2020, 08:21 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
I have not used the 12-24, but I'm a massive fan of the DA*11-18 for all the reasons cport just mentioned. The build quality and general handling are exceptional.

Compared to my DFA15-30, it is also dramatically smaller and lighter, and takes filters which are conveniently the same size as my DFA24-70, giving me a very useful two lens/two body landscape combination.
This testimonial from Sandy, since he has both the DFA 15-30mm AND the DA* 11-18mm f/2.8, should carry a lot of weight! And indeed it is better than carrying the weight of the DFA 15-30mm! The DA* lens might even be a bit better in some ways- after all, it is a true Pentax * lens, the build quality of which being exceptional. And, compared to the DA 12-24, which has a "good" build but there's no comparison, that f/2.8 for low light shooting is a huge advantage. It is that which is most responsible for the high cost.

But if you take the new price of the DA 12-24mm f/4 with its screw-driven AF and that price going back for quite a number of years now with the dollar value as it was then, and subtract that price from a current new DA* 11-18mm f/2.8, considering the numerous advancements you get, the price increase can be seen as reasonable.

If it were me, though, I'd have to go for new instead of used in this case especially. The appearance of the DA* 11-18mm has been so recent, I'd have to wonder why someone is selling so soon. I would suspect something isn't quite right, unless they are selling their entire Pentax APS-C system, and it is just one of several.

If getting a new one, I would also consider an extended warranty, if not too much money- one could check that against a repair cost in this case. There is a recent post from someone who got stuck with a DFA 28-105mm lens having AF failure beyond the 1 year warranty, and the repair cost quoted was over $300. One advantage of screw-driven AF lenses is superior reliability.

Last edited by mikesbike; 09-04-2020 at 08:33 PM.
09-05-2020, 03:52 AM - 1 Like   #28
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Some years ago I tested the DA15 Ltd against the DA12-24. To me the DA12-24 was optically the stronger one. But I'm someone who also appreciates very much haptics and the build quality of the tools I'm working with. In this category I clearly preferred the DA15 Ltd a lot. In addition the DA12-24 did cost around 999,- . There were nearly no rebates in Europe at the time. Too much money for the build quality IMO. In succession of my test I bought the DA15 Ltd.

Today I also own the DA*11-18. Built and haptically it is in a completely other league than the DA12-24. I use it more on the K-1 in FF and Square mode than with the APS-C camera. A great lens between FF and APS-C worlds. You can capture images with it that you can't using the DFA15-30. By example I like to use it for making FF Square images from 12 to 14mm. I even think I don't need the coming 21mm Ltd. This one seems to have the drawback of a fixed lens hood so that I wouldn't be able to use it with my 100mm filter system. That's no problem for the DA*11-18. Yesterday I again had the K-1 / DA*11-18 combo on a hiking tour and again this combo delivered wonderful sharp and detail rich images across the frame. But if I wouldn't do raw development and work out some details in post - including local adjustments - the images wouldn't show what I experienced in place. So IMO there are other factors that are important to get the images that make me / us happy. I wouldn't expect the DA*11-18 deliver optically significantly better in every scenario than the DA12-24 or DFA15-30.

Camera and lens are only tools. I'm sure the DA12-24 also delivers great. But every lens shows pros and cons - and they are often very subjective. Don't think you use a lens and the camera / lens combo delivers straight out of camera always without flaws and to your perception and satisfaction. If you think this way disappointment is preprogrammed in one or the other way.

For all the mentioned lenses - DA15, DA12-24, DFA15-30 and DA*11-18 - you will find people swearing on them. Bying an expensive lens, what are the trade-offs you would accept? My exclusion criteria for the DA12-24 I described above. The DFA15-30 I didn't buy because of weight, size and cost of 1699,- . My pros for the DA*11-18 were great * haptics, AW, for me acceptable size/weight and especially very well usable FF capabilities although this was a little bit of a gamble that went even better than I thought. My trade-off that I had to accept was the cost, especially as an early buyer. The DA15 is still in use when I want to go very lightweight.

If you know about your exclusion criterias and acceptable trade-offs, there's a great possibility you're going to be happy with your decision, I guess. - Good luck!

P.s. My review words for the DA*11-18 you find in the review section.
09-05-2020, 04:39 AM - 3 Likes   #29
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For my needs, I couldn't be happier than with my DA 12-24 mm f/4 on my K3.


















Last edited by RICHARD L.; 09-05-2020 at 05:29 AM.
09-05-2020, 05:25 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by acoufap Quote
Some years ago I tested the DA15 Ltd against the DA12-24. To me the DA12-24 was optically the stronger one. But I'm someone who also appreciates very much haptics and the build quality of the tools I'm working with. In this category I clearly preferred the DA15 Ltd a lot. In addition the DA12-24 did cost around 999,- . There were nearly no rebates in Europe at the time. Too much money for the build quality IMO. In succession of my test I bought the DA15 Ltd.

Today I also own the DA*11-18. Built and haptically it is in a completely other league than the DA12-24. I use it more on the K-1 in FF and Square mode than with the APS-C camera. A great lens between FF and APS-C worlds. You can capture images with it that you can't using the DFA15-30. By example I like to use it for making FF Square images from 12 to 14mm. I even think I don't need the coming 21mm Ltd. This one seems to have the drawback of a fixed lens hood so that I wouldn't be able to use it with my 100mm filter system. That's no problem for the DA*11-18. Yesterday I again had the K-1 / DA*11-18 combo on a hiking tour and again this combo delivered wonderful sharp and detail rich images across the frame. But if I wouldn't do raw development and work out some details in post - including local adjustments - the images wouldn't show what I experienced in place. So IMO there are other factors that are important to get the images that make me / us happy. I wouldn't expect the DA*11-18 deliver optically significantly better in every scenario than the DA12-24 or DFA15-30.

Camera and lens are only tools. I'm sure the DA12-24 also delivers great. But every lens shows pros and cons - and they are often very subjective. Don't think you use a lens and the camera / lens combo delivers straight out of camera always without flaws and to your perception and satisfaction. If you think this way disappointment is preprogrammed in one or the other way.

For all the mentioned lenses - DA15, DA12-24, DFA15-30 and DA*11-18 - you will find people swearing on them. Bying an expensive lens, what are the trade-offs you would accept? My exclusion criteria for the DA12-24 I described above. The DFA15-30 I didn't buy because of weight, size and cost of 1699,- . My pros for the DA*11-18 were great * haptics, AW, for me acceptable size/weight and especially very well usable FF capabilities although this was a little bit of a gamble that went even better than I thought. My trade-off that I had to accept was the cost, especially as an early buyer. The DA15 is still in use when I want to go very lightweight.

If you know about your exclusion criterias and acceptable trade-offs, there's a great possibility you're going to be happy with your decision, I guess. - Good luck!

P.s. My review words for the DA*11-18 you find in the review section.
What's the 11-18 like in square-crop on the K-1? Is it usable zoomed to 11mm? This + pixel shift seems like a sweet combination. Do you have a favorite shot to share from this combination?
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