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09-05-2020, 05:58 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by rogerstg Quote
Same with me. I have a Sigma 10-20 too, but find the range of 12-24 significantly more useful for me.



I find that, in practice with good technique, image quality differences between many lenses are in the realm of splitting hairs.

OTOH, if the OP is looking for rationalization to pass along to his wife, I'm 100% behind him getting the 11-18mm. An easy selling point is that he can express his desire to use the "best" quality optics available to capture the once in a lifetime expressions and antics of his beautiful child.
That’s a good one.

09-05-2020, 11:21 AM - 1 Like   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by pres589 Quote
What's the 11-18 like in square-crop on the K-1? Is it usable zoomed to 11mm? This + pixel shift seems like a sweet combination. Do you have a favorite shot to share from this combination?
Concerning K-1 (FF) Square mode please have a look here. In short: dark corners, at 11 only usable when it doesn't disturb the composition. I don't use this FL in FF or FF Square mode - a result of my test image.

Concerning PSR: to tell the truth, I don't use PSR that often. I simply not always think of using PSR although having a tripod with me. In addition PSR surely is not needed for making great pictures. It only can help create images technically slightly better (color, sharpness, noise). Sometimes the image results that I get using Capture One Pro are so good that I simply pass on creating a PSR based image from a PSR DNG file in Raw Therapee (Example)!

Message, story, mood, supporting composition etc. seem to me much more important. A clear and sharp image even can be counter productive! I really love some of my images. But PSR, used focal length or image ratio have nothing to do with this love. I sometimes post an image that I made using PSR but weeks later I couldn't tell if I did it with or without. So I cannot answer your "favorite" question - sorry.

Last edited by acoufap; 09-05-2020 at 12:53 PM. Reason: "Example"-Link added.
09-05-2020, 01:28 PM   #33
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My thought with PSR and using square crop would be to get some effective resolution back after having given up sensor real estate by using square crop. It seems like this lens and the K-1 are working for you.
09-05-2020, 03:54 PM   #34
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@RICHARD L Very nice examples of the DA 12-24mm f/4 capabilities, in the hands of a capable photographer such as yourself. I have always enjoyed mine, over many years. Your last shot here appears to have been made at or near 24mm. Having this range at the long end allows better versatility for use as an all-purpose lens. I have no plans to let mine go. I got the Sigma for the opposite reason- its wider capability, and a bit faster for low light along with its quiet AF. So I find myself using the Sigma more when going for wide angle shots, since its range is greater at that end.

09-06-2020, 09:45 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by pres589 Quote
My thought with PSR and using square crop would be to get some effective resolution back after having given up sensor real estate by using square crop. It seems like this lens and the K-1 are working for you.
Yeah, my first * lens and I'm very happy with it.
09-10-2020, 06:42 AM   #36
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So, if you have to choose between your wife, and a lens, which lens would you choose?

I found a great deal of a brand new 11-18, couldn't help my self but clicking the "Pay" button. There is nothing wrong with my 12-24 and 14 but the temptation is hard. At least I'm confident I can resell the lens if it doesn't fit my expectation, though I think it's unlikely.
09-10-2020, 11:11 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bui Quote
So, if you have to choose between your wife, and a lens, which lens would you choose?

I found a great deal of a brand new 11-18, couldn't help my self but clicking the "Pay" button. There is nothing wrong with my 12-24 and 14 but the temptation is hard. At least I'm confident I can resell the lens if it doesn't fit my expectation, though I think it's unlikely.
Have you rec'd your new lens yet? If so and you have the time to do a few 12-24 comparison shots before its sold you might help others contemplating the upgrade with their decision-making. I don't see a lot of side-by-side with those two.

09-10-2020, 11:40 PM   #38
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No not yet it will arrive next week. Will see if I have time to do such comparison. Never done such before.
09-11-2020, 03:45 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bui Quote
No not yet it will arrive next week. Will see if I have time to do such comparison. Never done such before.
Just images will do. Shoot from the same position, and the same settings and subject, within a couple minutes of each other so the light doesn't change. Wide open, F5.6, F11 and zoomed all in and all out should do.

I'm not aware of anyone doing this yet. You'll live in infamy!
09-11-2020, 04:47 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by gatorguy Quote
Just images will do. Shoot from the same position, and the same settings and subject, within a couple minutes of each other so the light doesn't change. Wide open, F5.6, F11 and zoomed all in and all out should do.

I'm not aware of anyone doing this yet. You'll live in infamy!
It's been done by a pentax forums user mbaez for something like that. Was a view over some piles the water and NY finacial district. Would be great to see someone else compare as well.
09-11-2020, 05:05 AM   #41
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I agree. Never had the 12-24 myself, but I did go out and get me the 11-18, and for the same reason: image quality, especially sharpness. I have not been disappointed.
09-11-2020, 06:25 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by house Quote
It's been done by a pentax forums user mbaez for something like that. Was a view over some piles the water and NY finacial district. Would be great to see someone else compare as well.
Yes I saw that one a few days ago but it was very difficult to navigate those images and compare. What I'd like to see here (if the OP has the time and inclination) is a side by side, for instance 11-18 at 11mm 5.6 then the 12-14 at 12mm 5.6 etc. rather than a set of images in a catalog lacking the complete EXIF info.

I think the members here would like it to be easier to directly compare the two in side-by-side images. I know I would, but I do of course appreciate the effort our fellow PF member Mbaez made

Pentax 11-18 vs Pentax 12-24 - PentaxForums.com
10-26-2021, 05:14 AM - 2 Likes   #43
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Well… despite my intentions a deal I couldn’t pass up came up. I’m currently waiting on my 11-18 to arrive in a few days.

Yes the 12-24 range seems better. Yes f4 is typically enough for my photography. Yes even the 12-24 can seem bulky and ungainly vs the 15 or 14. But… it’s a DA*! Lol.
10-27-2021, 03:26 AM - 1 Like   #44
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Taking the opportunity of being reminded about my own thread 1 year ago (thanks @UncleVanya), I would like to report that I actually pulled the trigger not long after opening this thread (LBA LBA ), and sold the 12-24 shortly after. I apologise for not being able to provide comparisons photos, because first I'm very uncomfortable doing that work, and secondly to have infinity landscape with enough details to do comparison I have to drive out of the city. So here is my subjective "judgement":

11-18 +:
- It is sharper and crispier. It was down to my copies of course, but for sharpness I think no technical comparison is needed, if you see your photos on a large screen you will realise the 11-18 is sharper, especially at wide end
- Much better build quality. Not a limited type but the 11-18 is very well built, feel great in my hands, and also it's operation (focusing, zooming, etc). This feeling when using a lens does not contribute directly to image quality, but it has quite an impact on my motivation to take photos, personally
- Adding to good handling is silent focusing
- Internal zoom. It's not technically internal zoom, but it looks like an internal zoom lens (the front elements movement is very shoot, and only inside the outer of the lens
- WR. I think for a landscape lens WR is an important feature.
- Wider. 11mm is wider than 12mm
- Very good flare-resistance for such a zoom
- Could be use with FF from like 16-18mm. Even at 15mm with significant vignetting I still prefer this lens to the Irix 15mm which I had at the time. I eventually sold both the Irix and my K1-ii so this no longer applies.

11-18 -:
- An used 11-18 is still at least 2 times more expensive than a 12-24
- It is heavy, really heavy, and
- It is big big, and its hood is ridiculously large. It takes a lot of spaces in my bag, and in fact for a trip it eats up the space of at least 2 other random lenses than I could usually bring
- Limited zoom range: it's not possible to leave this lens as a default lens on my camera, due to 18mm being too wide for the better part of my shoots. 24mm could do otherwise
- My cameras are the KP and KS-1, with both of them the lens makes the combination very front-heavy, quite clunky to carry

12-24? Basically the reversal of above points:
- It is lighter, smaller, and cheaper. I do miss its size
- In exchange, build quality is nothing to rave about
- 12-24 = starting to enter normal range territory, so it can be used as a default lens
- Sharpness is a bit inferior to the 11-18, but I feel the color is as good
- I don't remember it's flare resistance ability

Conclusion is already known: ideally you should have both, with the 11-18 for more serious shooting, long trips, rain, etc, while the 12-24 for more casual ones. If wide-angle photography is just a complementary part of your habit, you can live perfectly fine with the 12-24, however if you take a lot of wide-angle photos, eventually you would upgrade to the 11-18, that's inevitable.
10-27-2021, 03:55 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bui Quote
Taking the opportunity of being reminded about my own thread 1 year ago (thanks @UncleVanya), I would like to report that I actually pulled the trigger not long after opening this thread (LBA LBA ), and sold the 12-24 shortly after. I apologise for not being able to provide comparisons photos, because first I'm very uncomfortable doing that work, and secondly to have infinity landscape with enough details to do comparison I have to drive out of the city. So here is my subjective "judgement":

11-18 +:
- It is sharper and crispier. It was down to my copies of course, but for sharpness I think no technical comparison is needed, if you see your photos on a large screen you will realise the 11-18 is sharper, especially at wide end
- Much better build quality. Not a limited type but the 11-18 is very well built, feel great in my hands, and also it's operation (focusing, zooming, etc). This feeling when using a lens does not contribute directly to image quality, but it has quite an impact on my motivation to take photos, personally
- Adding to good handling is silent focusing
- Internal zoom. It's not technically internal zoom, but it looks like an internal zoom lens (the front elements movement is very shoot, and only inside the outer of the lens
- WR. I think for a landscape lens WR is an important feature.
- Wider. 11mm is wider than 12mm
- Very good flare-resistance for such a zoom
- Could be use with FF from like 16-18mm. Even at 15mm with significant vignetting I still prefer this lens to the Irix 15mm which I had at the time. I eventually sold both the Irix and my K1-ii so this no longer applies.

11-18 -:
- An used 11-18 is still at least 2 times more expensive than a 12-24
- It is heavy, really heavy, and
- It is big big, and its hood is ridiculously large. It takes a lot of spaces in my bag, and in fact for a trip it eats up the space of at least 2 other random lenses than I could usually bring
- Limited zoom range: it's not possible to leave this lens as a default lens on my camera, due to 18mm being too wide for the better part of my shoots. 24mm could do otherwise
- My cameras are the KP and KS-1, with both of them the lens makes the combination very front-heavy, quite clunky to carry

12-24? Basically the reversal of above points:
- It is lighter, smaller, and cheaper. I do miss its size
- In exchange, build quality is nothing to rave about
- 12-24 = starting to enter normal range territory, so it can be used as a default lens
- Sharpness is a bit inferior to the 11-18, but I feel the color is as good
- I don't remember it's flare resistance ability

Conclusion is already known: ideally you should have both, with the 11-18 for more serious shooting, long trips, rain, etc, while the 12-24 for more casual ones. If wide-angle photography is just a complementary part of your habit, you can live perfectly fine with the 12-24, however if you take a lot of wide-angle photos, eventually you would upgrade to the 11-18, that's inevitable.
Thanks for that comparison. Well done.

One thing to mention since you raised it with the 11-18: The 12-24 is also usable on full-frame from 16mm (or is it 17?) up.
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