Any comparisons between the 40mm M 2.8 versus the DA versions of the lens?

**GUB** · 11-16-2020, 02:46 PM

Originally posted by Paul the Sunman

I have over 800 photos taken with the SMC DA40 Limited on the K1. Looking back through them, I see there is strong vignetting wide open (f/2.8), though not unpleasingly for the images I took.

Vignetting is much-reduced at f/3.2:

and again at f/4, though the corners are very "muddy":

The extreme corners are improved at f/5.6. Though still not perfect at f/8, they are more than useable:

So, the usability of the DA40 Limited on the K1 depends on your usage. Stopped down to f/3.2 greatly reduces the vignetting, but still leaves messy extreme corners; the edges are fine. This is absolutely useable for portraits or other shots with a strong central focus. By f/8, although not perfect when pixel peeping. I would say "shoot away with impunity".

The drop off in sharpness in the top right of the ferris wheel is what i mean by "extreme". And this is at f3.2

vector · 11-16-2020, 03:34 PM - **1 Like**

Here are some test shot from my M40. This was just done quickly between some meetings so not great shots, just from my front steps. Unfortunately there isn't a lot of detail in the corners, just sky and snow. Focus is on the house across the street. No adjustments in Lightroom, just imported and exported as jpgs.

F2.8 (Full Size)

F4 (Full Size)

F5.6 (Full Size)

F8 (Full Size)

F11 (Full Size)

F16 (Full Size)

F22 (Full Size)

Paul the Sunman · 11-16-2020, 04:17 PM

Originally posted by vector

Here are some test shot from my M40. This was just done quickly between some meetings so not great shots, just from my front steps. Unfortunately there isn't a lot of detail in the corners, just sky and snow. Focus is on the house across the street. No adjustments in Lightroom, just imported and exported as jpgs.

The corners are the issue though. Are they better than the DA40?

**pres589** · 11-16-2020, 04:32 PM

Time to randomly place newsprint on the nearest brick wall and get some samples!

**clackers** · 11-16-2020, 04:35 PM

As this Sony full frame shooter found of the old M40 f2.8:

"Light fall-off (vignetting) is pretty extensive, with corners of lighter exposures being noticeably darker than the center of the frame. This is worse on full-frame digital sensors, such as the one found in my Sony a7. The phenomenon is less prevalent with film, and won’t really show up at all on crop-sensor machines such as Fuji’s X-series where the lens will give a field of view similar to that of a 60mm lens. All this taken, vignetting is one of the easiest problems to solve in photo editing software – slide a slider and you’re good to go. .... What’s worse than these troubles is that the lens just isn’t super sharp, an issue that’s especially egregious, again, when shooting wide open. Corners are spongier than a rum cake, and even the center of the frame lacks the clinical precision of something like a Nikkor 50mm, or Minolta’s Rokkor 45mm F/2.

But he *really* likes the lens for what it is. It's a pancake, a novelty, whereas the FA43 Limited is serious.

SMC Pentax M 40mm F/2.8 Pancake Lens Review - Casual Photophile

**JensE** · 11-16-2020, 04:45 PM - **1 Like**

Almost spoilt for choices if you also consider the Voigtländer 40mm F/2 Ultron.

vector · 11-16-2020, 05:16 PM - **2 Likes**

Ok here we go again. Newspaper this time.

F2.8 (Full Size)

F4 (Full Size)

F5.6 (Full Size)

F8 (Full Size)

F11 (Full Size)

F16 (Full Size)

**clackers** · 11-16-2020, 10:46 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by vector

Ok here we go again. Newspaper this time.

Thanks, Vector, and I hope you went on that Ghost Tour ... looks great!

someasiancameraguy · 11-16-2020, 11:04 PM - **1 Like**

It's pretty clear from the samples that the DA version vignettes and renders corners weaker. Matching the DA to the M on vignetting and corner sharpness will require stepping down around 1 stop.

Vector and Paul, thank you for your sample pictures and in your help answering this question. This community is pretty awesome.

vector · 11-17-2020, 10:06 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by clackers

Thanks, Vector, and I hope you went on that Ghost Tour ... looks great!

Unfortunately I didn't but I will keep it mind for next years Halloween.

---------- Post added 11-17-20 at 10:07 AM ----------

Originally posted by someasiancameraguy

It's pretty clear from the samples that the DA version vignettes and renders corners weaker. Matching the DA to the M on vignetting and corner sharpness will require stepping down around 1 stop.

Vector and Paul, thank you for your sample pictures and in your help answering this question. This community is pretty awesome.

You're welcome, I happened to be interested in the same comparison, so I was happy to provide some M40 samples.

**Rondec** · 11-18-2020, 04:16 AM

If you are interested in using the lens on film then you definitely need the M version.

I have used my DA 40 limited on my K-1 and it has quite weak corners. Not the end of the world for many images, but they just look soft and blurry. Even at f8 they aren't what I would call "sharp" although they are better. With about a 10 percent crop you can get very nice results with sharp borders.

someasiancameraguy · 11-18-2020, 05:50 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

If you are interested in using the lens on film then you definitely need the M version.

I have used my DA 40 limited on my K-1 and it has quite weak corners. Not the end of the world for many images, but they just look soft and blurry. Even at f8 they aren't what I would call "sharp" although they are better. With about a 10 percent crop you can get very nice results with sharp borders.

Yeah I was just thinking the same. It's a shame honestly that I have to make a choice that has so many compromises. The M series loses new coatings, new glass tech, AF, and exposure modes. The DA Ltd loses roughly 1 stop corner performance in sharpness and vignetting. Pentax really should release this great lens in a DFA format.

Sandy Hancock · 11-18-2020, 06:10 AM

I think I'd just use the FA 43/1.9 Limited....

stevebrot · 11-18-2020, 01:41 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by clackers

It's a pancake, a novelty, whereas the FA43 Limited is serious.

Originally posted by JensE

Almost spoilt for choices if you also consider the Voigtländer 40mm F/2 Ultron.

The Ultron being equally serious, this discussion goes to another level.

Steve

stevebrot · 11-18-2020, 01:48 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by someasiancameraguy

Yeah I was just thinking the same. It's a shame honestly that I have to make a choice that has so many compromises. The M series loses new coatings, new glass tech, AF, and exposure modes. The DA Ltd loses roughly 1 stop corner performance in sharpness and vignetting. Pentax really should release this great lens in a DFA format.

Too many compromises? Get the C/V 40/2.0 Ultron. It even has a cool hood.

Steve

11-17-2020, 10:06 AM - 1 Like	#40
vector Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Location: Alberta Posts: 713	Originally posted by clackers Thanks, Vector, and I hope you went on that Ghost Tour ... looks great! Unfortunately I didn't but I will keep it mind for next years Halloween. ---------- Post added 11-17-20 at 10:07 AM ---------- Originally posted by someasiancameraguy It's pretty clear from the samples that the DA version vignettes and renders corners weaker. Matching the DA to the M on vignetting and corner sharpness will require stepping down around 1 stop. Vector and Paul, thank you for your sample pictures and in your help answering this question. This community is pretty awesome. You're welcome, I happened to be interested in the same comparison, so I was happy to provide some M40 samples. Last edited by vector; 11-18-2020 at 10:39 AM.

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11-16-2020, 02:46 PM	#31
GUB Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Wanganui Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,760	Originally posted by Paul the Sunman I have over 800 photos taken with the SMC DA40 Limited on the K1. Looking back through them, I see there is strong vignetting wide open (f/2.8), though not unpleasingly for the images I took. Vignetting is much-reduced at f/3.2: and again at f/4, though the corners are very "muddy": The extreme corners are improved at f/5.6. Though still not perfect at f/8, they are more than useable: So, the usability of the DA40 Limited on the K1 depends on your usage. Stopped down to f/3.2 greatly reduces the vignetting, but still leaves messy extreme corners; the edges are fine. This is absolutely useable for portraits or other shots with a strong central focus. By f/8, although not perfect when pixel peeping. I would say "shoot away with impunity". The drop off in sharpness in the top right of the ferris wheel is what i mean by "extreme". And this is at f3.2

11-16-2020, 03:34 PM - 1 Like	#32
vector Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Location: Alberta Posts: 713	Here are some test shot from my M40. This was just done quickly between some meetings so not great shots, just from my front steps. Unfortunately there isn't a lot of detail in the corners, just sky and snow. Focus is on the house across the street. No adjustments in Lightroom, just imported and exported as jpgs. F2.8 (Full Size) F4 (Full Size) F5.6 (Full Size) F8 (Full Size) F11 (Full Size) F16 (Full Size) F22 (Full Size)

11-16-2020, 04:17 PM	#33
Paul the Sunman Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Melbourne Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,843	Originally posted by vector Here are some test shot from my M40. This was just done quickly between some meetings so not great shots, just from my front steps. Unfortunately there isn't a lot of detail in the corners, just sky and snow. Focus is on the house across the street. No adjustments in Lightroom, just imported and exported as jpgs. The corners are the issue though. Are they better than the DA40?

11-16-2020, 04:32 PM	#34
pres589 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Wichita, KS Photos: Albums Posts: 4,529	Time to randomly place newsprint on the nearest brick wall and get some samples!

11-16-2020, 04:35 PM	#35
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	As this Sony full frame shooter found of the old M40 f2.8: "Light fall-off (vignetting) is pretty extensive, with corners of lighter exposures being noticeably darker than the center of the frame. This is worse on full-frame digital sensors, such as the one found in my Sony a7. The phenomenon is less prevalent with film, and won’t really show up at all on crop-sensor machines such as Fuji’s X-series where the lens will give a field of view similar to that of a 60mm lens. All this taken, vignetting is one of the easiest problems to solve in photo editing software – slide a slider and you’re good to go. .... What’s worse than these troubles is that the lens just isn’t super sharp, an issue that’s especially egregious, again, when shooting wide open. Corners are spongier than a rum cake, and even the center of the frame lacks the clinical precision of something like a Nikkor 50mm, or Minolta’s Rokkor 45mm F/2. But he really likes the lens for what it is. It's a pancake, a novelty, whereas the FA43 Limited is serious. SMC Pentax M 40mm F/2.8 Pancake Lens Review - Casual Photophile

11-16-2020, 04:45 PM - 1 Like	#36
JensE Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Leipzig Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,969	Almost spoilt for choices if you also consider the Voigtländer 40mm F/2 Ultron.

11-16-2020, 05:16 PM - 2 Likes	#37
vector Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Location: Alberta Posts: 713	Ok here we go again. Newspaper this time. F2.8 (Full Size) F4 (Full Size) F5.6 (Full Size) F8 (Full Size) F11 (Full Size) F16 (Full Size)

11-16-2020, 10:46 PM - 1 Like	#38
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by vector Ok here we go again. Newspaper this time. Thanks, Vector, and I hope you went on that Ghost Tour ... looks great!

11-16-2020, 11:04 PM - 1 Like	#39
someasiancameraguy Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 419 Original Poster	It's pretty clear from the samples that the DA version vignettes and renders corners weaker. Matching the DA to the M on vignetting and corner sharpness will require stepping down around 1 stop. Vector and Paul, thank you for your sample pictures and in your help answering this question. This community is pretty awesome.

11-18-2020, 04:16 AM	#41
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	If you are interested in using the lens on film then you definitely need the M version. I have used my DA 40 limited on my K-1 and it has quite weak corners. Not the end of the world for many images, but they just look soft and blurry. Even at f8 they aren't what I would call "sharp" although they are better. With about a 10 percent crop you can get very nice results with sharp borders.

11-18-2020, 05:50 AM	#42
someasiancameraguy Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 419 Original Poster	Originally posted by Rondec If you are interested in using the lens on film then you definitely need the M version. I have used my DA 40 limited on my K-1 and it has quite weak corners. Not the end of the world for many images, but they just look soft and blurry. Even at f8 they aren't what I would call "sharp" although they are better. With about a 10 percent crop you can get very nice results with sharp borders. Yeah I was just thinking the same. It's a shame honestly that I have to make a choice that has so many compromises. The M series loses new coatings, new glass tech, AF, and exposure modes. The DA Ltd loses roughly 1 stop corner performance in sharpness and vignetting. Pentax really should release this great lens in a DFA format.

11-18-2020, 06:10 AM	#43
Sandy Hancock Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Adelaide Hills, South Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,272	I think I'd just use the FA 43/1.9 Limited....

11-18-2020, 01:41 PM - 1 Like	#44
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by clackers It's a pancake, a novelty, whereas the FA43 Limited is serious. Originally posted by JensE Almost spoilt for choices if you also consider the Voigtländer 40mm F/2 Ultron. The Ultron being equally serious, this discussion goes to another level. Steve

11-18-2020, 01:48 PM - 1 Like	#45
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by someasiancameraguy Yeah I was just thinking the same. It's a shame honestly that I have to make a choice that has so many compromises. The M series loses new coatings, new glass tech, AF, and exposure modes. The DA Ltd loses roughly 1 stop corner performance in sharpness and vignetting. Pentax really should release this great lens in a DFA format. Too many compromises? Get the C/V 40/2.0 Ultron. It even has a cool hood. Steve