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12-09-2020, 11:52 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by aslyfox Quote
some clarifications which might be helpful to get good recommendations:

I agree the low end of the budget - $300 is very unlikely $600 might be doable

what does the OP mean about getting outside ?

is weight and size an issue ?

are we talking about a blind situation where a tripod or monopod can be used or will the OP be on the move, by car or foot, looking for target of opportunity ?

what distance between the photographer and the " target " is anticipated ?

will the noise of screw drive be a problem ?

would the OP be willing to look at a " mirror " lens ?

some can be quite good, some quite bad
I'd say the long lens would be something I would use at places I can drive to and have a short walk involved with a tripod. My other gear serves me well for my hiking and other on the go adventures.

The photos that made me consider a longer lens were large birds on the opposite side of a lake or animals in open fields that I could not approach. Close enough to see, but just not happy with the photos I was able to take. I don't believe the drive noise would be an issue for my intentions.

I read mostly about the doughnut issue with mirror lenses. If there is a good compromise, I'd be more than willing to consider one.

Thanks again for the reply.

---------- Post added 12-09-20 at 11:57 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Bertrand3000 Quote
I suggest the 55-300 PLM with no converter, only cropping. I suggest using 260mm focal length, the highest with F5.6 aperture and better in quality (and in cropping) than 270-300mm.
This is something I have been reading about and intend to try. Thanks for including it in the thread, should be helpful for others in same situation.

12-09-2020, 11:58 AM - 4 Likes   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by eyespywithmyi Quote
Great read, thanks for documenting your journey. So you carry and handhold the 560? It's very tempting but I use my 150-450 for birds and sometimes I'm holding the lens up for a bit trying to capture a flitty little songbird and it starts to get heavy after a bit of holding it up. Time for more pushups for me I guess...
when i first got the 560 in july i spent quite a bit of time experimenting. the first thing i did was get a 168mm lens plate so i could mount it at the center of balance when attached to my K1. the balance point is about 50 mm behind the last tripod screw hole on the built in lens mount.

then i looked at how to carry it, when out hiking and at present my hikes are typically 5-8 km and 1.5 - 2.5 hours. I carry the lens with an extra long padded optek strap, over the opposite shoulder (i.e. neck and shoulder cross body) The strap hooks on the lens are too far back, and the lens tips forward, but it only takes light effort by either hand to hold the lens level in addition to the strap. and with the right length strap, this is achieved with only a slight elbow bend of the arm. it is quite comfortable for hours at a time

shooting, and this is where there is a trick, to hold the lens, i rotate the tripod mount to about the 11:00 position (with respect to you being behind the camera and lens i.e. holding the lens to your eye) and put my hand between the tripod foot and the lens body, with my thumb around the leg of the tripod mount (sort of wearing it like a baseball glove if that makes sense to you) the impact is that you are not actually holding the weight of the lens with your grip, but the weight is transferred from the tripod foot directly to the back of your wrist, and into your arm, your grip is used only around the leg of the tripod foot and over the top of the lens barrel, to hold your hand in place

in that way, it is comfortable to hold the lens to my eye for a very long time (i.e. several minutes for sure, as i walk along and spot things to shoot) having spent the time to figure out the tripod mount at the beginning, i have never actually used it again, i shoot exclusively hand held with the 560.

I do not claim to be super man, or even exceptionally fit or strong, and am within a few years of normal retirement so this is not a boast of the young and foolish. hand holding the 560 as i have described is . at least for me, quite simple. even considering it is about double the weight of my sigma APO 70-200/2.8 and 2X TC which would be similar in weight to the 150-450/5.6
12-09-2020, 12:13 PM - 1 Like   #18
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After a bit mulling, I'm going to suggest the 1.4 for the 55-300 PLM. It's not great solution and will need a lot of light, but it's probably th best way to go, since if you buy a DA*200, DA 300 ƒ4 or another telephoto in the future, the TC is still there for you. I'd hold off on believing it doesn't help a 55-300 until some testing has been done. Most of the time that the TC adds nothing is a fallacy. It's more about setting up test that shows the advantage.
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/10-pentax-slr-lens-discussion/321890-und...re-detail.html

Or if you can find one an A-400 5.6. For years this was my only long telephoto, and I have nothing but good things to say about it.

But ultimately no matter what you buy for $300 the DFA 150-450 with TC is going to be your holy grail.

Last edited by normhead; 12-09-2020 at 12:20 PM.
12-09-2020, 12:20 PM - 1 Like   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ho_agie Quote
. . . I read mostly about the doughnut issue with mirror lenses. If there is a good compromise, I'd be more than willing to consider one. . . .
I am not saying mirror lenses are perfect, but due to budget a good mirror lens might be an option

I advise the OP to take a look at these threads

QuoteQuote:
The Mirror Lens Club!
Inspired by my resounding success in turning an existing thread into "the kit lens club", I've decided to go one better and create a new "club" thread for these classic lenses-we-love-to-hate: mirror lenses. Yep, they're slow and have a fixed aperture, they're not usually very contrasty or sharp, and they have extremely odd bokeh (some are worse than others on any of these counts, of course). But that doesn't mean you can't have fun with them, and sometimes even get a pretty decent image out of them!

So here's a place to post your favorite shots taken with mirror lenses. Do identify the specific lens used if possible.

Read more at: The Mirror Lens Club! - Page 79 - PentaxForums.com

QuoteQuote:
Adaptall Mount Club (Tamron).
I didn't see a thread for the adaptall mount lenses (Tamron thread is not really appropriate, as the adaptall lenses are unique), so decided to start one. Any lens in the following website qualifies:
(I just realized the website id dead, if someone knows of another site, pm me and i'll place it here)
The website has information for those who do not know much about these lenses.

P.S: Apparently there are adaptall lenses that is not in the website. The website was included just as a knowledge base, any and all adaptall mount lenses belong here

Read more at: Adaptall Mount Club (Tamron). - Page 274 - PentaxForums.com

in my limited experience, it depends on what mirror lens you get

I had a Tamron Adaptall-2 SP 500mm f/8 Mirror (55BB)

check out the third party reviews

Pentax Lenses by Sigma, Tamron, Zeiss, and more - Reviews and Specification Database - Pentax Lens Review Database


Last edited by aslyfox; 12-09-2020 at 12:33 PM.
12-09-2020, 12:22 PM - 1 Like   #20
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There is really nothing that fits your price range. You may find a used Bigma for a little more. Personally I woul stay away from manual focus for wildlife. It, especially birds can move prey fast. Better than the Bigma would be the DA1.4 converter to use with the PLM, it will provide as good as or better performance than the Bigmas do. But since the PLM is not a fast lens, your going to lose some light with a TC, which could make focusing poor in darker areas like a woods. I have the combination, but I’ve only used it in situation where there is plenty of light, like around water, not in the woods shed I use the TC with the DA 300 which is F4.
12-09-2020, 12:48 PM - 1 Like   #21
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We had a similar discussion in ther german pentaxians forum. The solution was the Tokina ATX AF 5.6/400.
Should be in the price range and is quite a good lens. The issue her is, it is not very common, so getting one might be a issue by itself.

Tokina 400mm f5.6 ATX AF Lens Reviews - Tokina Lenses - Pentax Lens Review Database
12-09-2020, 01:27 PM - 1 Like   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Papa_Joe Quote
We had a similar discussion in ther german pentaxians forum. The solution was the Tokina ATX AF 5.6/400.
Should be in the price range and is quite a good lens. The issue her is, it is not very common, so getting one might be a issue by itself.

Tokina 400mm f5.6 ATX AF Lens Reviews - Tokina Lenses - Pentax Lens Review Database
speak of the devil -

QuoteQuote:
For Sale: Tokina 400mm f5.6 ATX AF
Tokina 400mm f5.6 ATX AF - PentaxForums.com

what are the odds ?

DISCLAIMER

I know nothing about the lens nor the seller and no interest in any sale

12-09-2020, 01:35 PM - 1 Like   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wasp Quote
How about a 400mm prime?

This one will let the camera do the focusing:

Sigma 400mm F5.6 APO (AF) v3: 1995 > Lens Reviews - Sigma Lenses - Pentax Lens Review Database

Pentax also made a 400mm with autofocus but it is outside the stated budget:

SMC Pentax-FA* 400mm F5.6 ED [IF] Reviews - FA Prime Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database

If you are willing to forego such luxury and want to focus yourself:

SMC Pentax-A 400mm F5.6 Reviews - A Prime Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database

I have one of the latter that has served me faithfully since the mid eighties.
I too have the A 400/5.6, and it offers great value, in my opinion.

On the other hand, any time spent carrying a bundle of well-made lenses of that era can be tiring, so the comments about possibly using a mirror lens should be given consideration if that’s an issue.

I have the Tamron 500/8 mirror lens, and it’s also good value, with the usual cautions about out-of-focus highlights, but it’s easy to carry and use.

Good luck with your purchase, whatever you decide.
12-09-2020, 01:39 PM - 1 Like   #24
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I own the Tokina SD 400mm f5.6 lens for my occasional wildlife or moon photography (Tokina SD 400mm f/5.6 Lens Reviews - Tokina Lenses - Pentax Lens Review Database).
It is a manual focus lens, but has an A-setting for convenient use on your K70.
As you can read in the review section this lens has it's flaws but still would be a reasonable choice within your budged in my opinion. The resolution of the lens is good enough for my K-3 but without the possibility to test myself I am not that confident the same holds true for pixel shift images or an additional teleconverter.

That said it all depends on your intended use of the lens, for occasional useage it will be fine, but if you wanna make wildlife photography your main focus you will be probably better off with a more expensive lens a little later in time.

As for the teleconverter suggestion in addition to your 55-300mm PLM lens, make sure it has all the right connections to controll your aperture if you go down that route.
12-09-2020, 01:56 PM - 1 Like   #25
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If you have a solid tripod a 500mm f4.5 Takumar is a decent choice (about $300); and you you MUST use a tripod (and will need a m42 adapter). It has 'issues' (close focusing/ chromatic) but I've taken excellent images with the lens. I also used the setup with the 1.4X-L TC with respectable results.

Otherwise I would also suggest the 55-300.
12-09-2020, 02:02 PM - 1 Like   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
I too have the A 400/5.6, and it offers great value, in my opinion.

On the other hand, any time spent carrying a bundle of well-made lenses of that era can be tiring, so the comments about possibly using a mirror lens should be given consideration if that’s an issue.

I have the Tamron 500/8 mirror lens, and it’s also good value, with the usual cautions about out-of-focus highlights, but it’s easy to carry and use.

Good luck with your purchase, whatever you decide.
I think weight is very subjective, in terms of what people are willing to carry. and in many cases over played to a great extent as a negative in why not to select something.

see my post re the DA560, it is 3 times the weight (probably 10-15 times the price of the A400 ) and i don't find it a burden to carry or hand hold. i used for a very long time the sigma 70-200/2.8 which weighs in at 1.7 kilos, not considering the 2x TC weight. that also outweighs the A 400/5.6 by a lot. probably at least 50% i have used and carried that since 2003!
12-09-2020, 02:21 PM - 1 Like   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
I think weight is very subjective, in terms of what people are willing to carry. and in many cases over played to a great extent as a negative in why not to select something.

see my post re the DA560, it is 3 times the weight (probably 10-15 times the price of the A400 ) and i don't find it a burden to carry or hand hold. i used for a very long time the sigma 70-200/2.8 which weighs in at 1.7 kilos, not considering the 2x TC weight. that also outweighs the A 400/5.6 by a lot. probably at least 50% i have used and carried that since 2003!
I used to carry my 6 pound Tamron 300 for 4 to 5 KMs a day. I don't do that anymore.
12-09-2020, 02:22 PM - 2 Likes   #28
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I would save up and spend the $600 because you will spend $300 and not be happy with the result and later will get the better lens anyway eventually costing you more $$. The DA* 300mm F/4 used could be had for around the $600 number, then add the converter later for a 420MM F/5.6. You will be able to crop your photos and still be happy with the sharpness from the prime lens. The Sigma 400 F/5.6 is interesting too as it rates better than Canon's 400 F/5.6L. I have the DA 55-300 HD F4-5.6 non PLM version and it is a decent lens for the price but is typical for a zoom of that range and price, at 300mm it is mediocre so I just couldn't see real good results with a converter not to mention the focus issues with the light reduction.
12-09-2020, 02:57 PM - 1 Like   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by bschriver11 Quote
I would save up and spend the $600 because you will spend $300 and not be happy with the result and later will get the better lens anyway eventually costing you more $$. The DA* 300mm F/4 used could be had for around the $600 number, then add the converter later for a 420MM F/5.6. You will be able to crop your photos and still be happy with the sharpness from the prime lens. The Sigma 400 F/5.6 is interesting too as it rates better than Canon's 400 F/5.6L. I have the DA 55-300 HD F4-5.6 non PLM version and it is a decent lens for the price but is typical for a zoom of that range and price, at 300mm it is mediocre so I just couldn't see real good results with a converter not to mention the focus issues with the light reduction.
i agree , look at my path over time and add up everything i bought over time and bring it forward to todays dollars with inflation i have spent more than i did buying the DA560
12-09-2020, 03:05 PM - 2 Likes   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by eyespywithmyi Quote
I use my 150-450 for birds and sometimes I'm holding the lens up for a bit trying to capture a flitty little songbird and it starts to get heavy after a bit of holding it up.
That's what monopods are for, Eyespywithmyi! I have a carbon one.
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