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02-20-2021, 02:01 PM - 2 Likes   #1
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85mm : Samyang vs. Helios vs. Takumars





Absolutely not disapointed by the Samyang, it is actually a killer.
I did not expected such results for Auto Takumar 85/1.8 vs. Takumar 83/1.9. They are close in bokeh and the 83mm is a bit sharper...

02-21-2021, 02:13 AM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by CarbonR Quote



Absolutely not disapointed by the Samyang, it is actually a killer.
I did not expected such results for Auto Takumar 85/1.8 vs. Takumar 83/1.9. They are close in bokeh and the 83mm is a bit sharper...
Interesting, but I have difficulties with enlarging your pictures for comparison. What about the Helios?
02-21-2021, 10:00 AM   #3
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A few years ago, I gave up on finding a nice SMC 85mm f2 and bought a Rokinon (Samyang).

Apart from needing a big chunk of AF correction, I have to say I've been pleased.

When it's in focus (which is largely dependent on subject/photographer motion at f1.4), it's very good.
Wide open, it's pretty "dreamy", which is fine for me, but stopped down a bit it's quite sharp while maintaining a nice transition to out of focus areas.

If I come across another 85mm at the right price, I won't need one from a functional perspective (even if I buy it as a collectible...) until I'm ready (if ever) for the DFA...

-Eric
02-21-2021, 10:56 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by niels hansen Quote
Interesting, but I have difficulties with enlarging your pictures for comparison. What about the Helios?
I can open them...
The Helios is very soft at f/1.5, f/2 is a good compromise between sharpness and swirling bokeh, and it need at least f/2.8-4 to be quite sharp. I keep it for the bokeh, despite its price (I paid it 160 EUR about 10 years ago).


QuoteOriginally posted by TwoUptons Quote
A few years ago, I gave up on finding a nice SMC 85mm f2 and bought a Rokinon (Samyang).

Apart from needing a big chunk of AF correction, I have to say I've been pleased.

When it's in focus (which is largely dependent on subject/photographer motion at f1.4), it's very good.
Wide open, it's pretty "dreamy", which is fine for me, but stopped down a bit it's quite sharp while maintaining a nice transition to out of focus areas.

If I come across another 85mm at the right price, I won't need one from a functional perspective (even if I buy it as a collectible...) until I'm ready (if ever) for the DFA...

-Eric
If I had to keep only one, this would be the Samyang (bought as a replacement of the S-M-C 85/1.8). I intended to keep the Helios for its bokeh, the Auto Takumar 85/1.8 and the Takumar 83/1.9 for their bokeh, but with these tests I am not sur about keeping the Auto 85, it is not so different from the 83/1.9 which is a little bit sharper. The 83mm is smaller and I can even go for the M37 version, sell my M42 and spare some bucks.

02-21-2021, 05:42 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by CarbonR Quote



Absolutely not disapointed by the Samyang, it is actually a killer.
I did not expected such results for Auto Takumar 85/1.8 vs. Takumar 83/1.9. They are close in bokeh and the 83mm is a bit sharper...
Could you help to post the full sized images?
I'd just like to see the overall effect of the bokeh on the images.


That said, for me, I tend to find that lenses can have different looking bokeh at different working distances and background distances.
So a small object (like you toy sample) can be too close and make all bokeh look pleasing, but can get more busy for some lenses as it becomes head/shoulders, half body, full body shots.
Also the type of background, some lenses doing better as an 'urban' lens (lines ) and others for foliage.
I've always found many of the Pentax lenses being rather good all rounders in this.

Thanks

Last edited by pinholecam; 02-21-2021 at 05:59 PM.
02-22-2021, 04:42 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by CarbonR Quote
I can open them...
The Helios is very soft at f/1.5, f/2 is a good compromise between sharpness and swirling bokeh, and it need at least f/2.8-4 to be quite sharp. I keep it for the bokeh, despite its price (I paid it 160 EUR about 10 years ago).




If I had to keep only one, this would be the Samyang (bought as a replacement of the S-M-C 85/1.8). I intended to keep the Helios for its bokeh, the Auto Takumar 85/1.8 and the Takumar 83/1.9 for their bokeh, but with these tests I am not sur about keeping the Auto 85, it is not so different from the 83/1.9 which is a little bit sharper. The 83mm is smaller and I can even go for the M37 version, sell my M42 and spare some bucks.
I agree, mine is from 1962 . It is very prone to flare, even if there is an oversized shade, but the biggest issue is not the lens, it is the difficult focusing on k30 , kp and probably many other dslrs. In another thread on PF it is written that quality splitfield screens are no more on the market. What a shame
02-22-2021, 01:47 PM - 1 Like   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
Could you help to post the full sized images?
I'd just like to see the overall effect of the bokeh on the images.


That said, for me, I tend to find that lenses can have different looking bokeh at different working distances and background distances.
So a small object (like you toy sample) can be too close and make all bokeh look pleasing, but can get more busy for some lenses as it becomes head/shoulders, half body, full body shots.
Also the type of background, some lenses doing better as an 'urban' lens (lines ) and others for foliage.
I've always found many of the Pentax lenses being rather good all rounders in this.

Thanks
Maybe with the direct links ?

https://i.postimg.cc/rMtzXzWN/Test1-85mm.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/5fB0yGsH/Test2-85mm.jpg

The toy is approx. 40cm tall, so this is maybe not as small as you think. I tried to have something close to what a mid-close portrait would be. Anyways, I will have to do more tests between Auto 85/1.8 and Tak 83/1.9 because if they are very close I will keep only one (and this probably will be the 83/1.9).


QuoteOriginally posted by niels hansen Quote
I agree, mine is from 1962 . It is very prone to flare, even if there is an oversized shade, but the biggest issue is not the lens, it is the difficult focusing on k30 , kp and probably many other dslrs. In another thread on PF it is written that quality splitfield screens are no more on the market. What a shame
The problem with classic focusing screens is they are optimized for luminosity. On My Canon 5D I changed it to have the S screen which is optimized for large apertures and manual focus, but darker. I still have the standard focusing screen on the 6D but this camera has the liveview (not the 5D).
02-23-2021, 01:50 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by CarbonR Quote
Maybe with the direct links ?

https://i.postimg.cc/rMtzXzWN/Test1-85mm.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/5fB0yGsH/Test2-85mm.jpg

The toy is approx. 40cm tall, so this is maybe not as small as you think. I tried to have something close to what a mid-close portrait would be. Anyways, I will have to do more tests between Auto 85/1.8 and Tak 83/1.9 because if they are very close I will keep only one (and this probably will be the 83/1.9).




The problem with classic focusing screens is they are optimized for luminosity. On My Canon 5D I changed it to have the S screen which is optimized for large apertures and manual focus, but darker. I still have the standard focusing screen on the 6D but this camera has the liveview (not the 5D).
Do I undertand you right: A splitfild screen will not improve the manual focus but a little? Today I very seldom use the helios 40, in the past it was my favorite for spontaneous portrqits with TRI X and Rollei infrared 400. For any kind of dynamic photographing the live view is awfull

02-23-2021, 01:52 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by niels hansen Quote
Do I undertand you right: A splitfild screen will not improve the manual focus but a little? Today I very seldom use the helios 40, in the past it was my favorite for spontaneous portrqits with TRI X and Rollei infrared 400. For any kind of dynamic photographing the live view is awfull
I find that the most accurate and "all terrain" solution is the microprism. Or at least a split focus at 45. Fopr myself and my practice, a focusing screen that renders close to the real deep of field is really helpful. Even with the S screen on my 5D I only have something like f//2.8 DOF, that means that I do not the the real, narrower DOF when shooting at wider than f/2.8. Standard focusing screens are rather like f/4-5.6 DOF I think, at least since autofocus.
02-23-2021, 10:00 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by CarbonR Quote
Maybe with the direct links ?

https://i.postimg.cc/rMtzXzWN/Test1-85mm.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/5fB0yGsH/Test2-85mm.jpg

The toy is approx. 40cm tall, so this is maybe not as small as you think. I tried to have something close to what a mid-close portrait would be. Anyways, I will have to do more tests between Auto 85/1.8 and Tak 83/1.9 because if they are very close I will keep only one (and this probably will be the 83/1.9).




The problem with classic focusing screens is they are optimized for luminosity. On My Canon 5D I changed it to have the S screen which is optimized for large apertures and manual focus, but darker. I still have the standard focusing screen on the 6D but this camera has the liveview (not the 5D).


Thanks for sharing and these are really interesting results.
I am only lacking the Tak 83/1.9 and the 2 slower (f3.5/f4.5) 85mm lenses, from my earlier attempt to get all the Pentax 85mm optical formula lenses. (not interested in the latter 2)
Getting one was pretty hard in the past, but not sure about the current situation.
Perhaps I should be more active to look out for one.


Personally, I like the Samyang bokeh from f1.4 to f2, and there after seem like I prefer the Auto Tak 85/1.8.
Based on previous samples and the ones you shared, it does seem that the OOF highlights are 'smaller' for the 83/1.9 which is why I'd give a slight nod to the Auto Tak 85 instead.
However, they do look close and the 83/1.8 is rare and smaller, so if I am only to keep one, it would be the 83.
But since the Auto Tak 85/1.8 isn't going to sell for that much I'd just keep it.
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