HD Pentax 31mm F1.8, 43mm F1.9 and 77mm F1.8 Limited lenses dilemma.............

**i_trax** · 02-25-2021, 05:24 AM

Well , you probably already can guess my question.
I do have SMC silver versions of those lenses and love them.
Is there that much difference between SMC and HD with rounded aperture blades Limited lenses?
The HD's apparently are cheaper , why?
Will value of SMC's drop dramatically?
Are HD's much better in photo IQ?
Should we all rush and sell all SMC's and order HD's in the anticipation of much more pleasurable experience?

**pepperberry farm** · 02-25-2021, 05:28 AM - **3 Likes**

Originally posted by i_trax

Should we all rush and sell all SMC's and order HD's in the anticipation of much more pleasurable experience?

yes...

**Y_V_E_S** · 02-25-2021, 05:39 AM

I’ll most likely sell my smc trio for the HD versions.

Kwong · 02-25-2021, 06:08 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by i_trax

Well , you probably already can guess my question.
I do have SMC silver versions of those lenses and love them.
Is there that much difference between SMC and HD with rounded aperture blades Limited lenses?
The HD's apparently are cheaper , why?
Will value of SMC's drop dramatically?
Are HD's much better in photo IQ?
Should we all rush and sell all SMC's and order HD's in the anticipation of much more pleasurable experience?

I'll take the wait and see approach. I just finished completing my set last year. There's going to have to be huge gains in performance for me to upgrade. Like the DA LTD I saw no need to buy the new HD versions.

bdery · 02-25-2021, 06:12 AM - **2 Likes**

It's hard to answer since the lenses are not available yet.

Based on the same "upgrade" which was dont with the DA Limited several years ago, we could assume that flare will indeed be better, sharpness (perceived) better also, but those two should be marginal, since the lenses are pretty good to start with. Out-of-focus rendering would likely improve, but that part is much trickier. The FA Limited were designed specifically to tune and optimize the out-of-focus rendering, so anything which touches that is risky. It could be "different"' without being "better". And the FA Limted aree already so good, it's hard to imagine a way to really, visibly improve them.

Plus, the 31 and 43 are known for their ability to crate beautiful starbursts, and the circular apertures will cripple that.

The SP coatings are a nice perk, making the lenses easier to clean.

In my opinion, the upgrade is drive by the fact that stock for the former FA Limited lenses was probably low and they needed to resupply parts anyway, so why not apply their updated coatings? And the circular aperture might be easier to source in 2021 since everyone is doing that.

I'll wait and see, but I'm not holding my breath.

noelpolar · 02-25-2021, 06:17 AM - **2 Likes**

Makes no sense what's so ever.... none.... zero..... with one exception.... that would be if you were being held captive at gun point.... and you had to rid yourself off all your money on things that will not make any difference to your life.... or you would be shot. If that is your set of circumstances.... then a set of black and a set of silver would be a wise purchase.

Off course.... if you have children this would not apply.... as you would be broke already.

Sandy Hancock · 02-25-2021, 06:27 AM - **5 Likes**

You need to get the HD trio in black.
Then the world will be back in balance....

house · 02-25-2021, 06:37 AM

Originally posted by i_trax

Well , you probably already can guess my question.
I do have SMC silver versions of those lenses and love them.
Is there that much difference between SMC and HD with rounded aperture blades Limited lenses?
The HD's apparently are cheaper , why?
Will value of SMC's drop dramatically?
Are HD's much better in photo IQ?
Should we all rush and sell all SMC's and order HD's in the anticipation of much more pleasurable experience?

It makes no sense to sell the SMC to buy the HD. HD is reportedly a cheaper process than SMC that probably why they are cheaper.

**pres589** · 02-25-2021, 06:42 AM

You really want to just mail me your FA 77. Just send it and look forward to the future. Forget the past! Give it to me!

---------- Post added 02-25-21 at 08:46 AM ----------

Originally posted by house

It makes no sense to sell the SMC to buy the HD. HD is reportedly a cheaper process than SMC that probably why they are cheaper.

I would check tests & samples of the lenses when they hit the street. Some of the lenses that moves from SMC to HD performed noticeably better. Sometimes not. Wait until the tests and people can judge for themselves what they want to do.

Just because a process is cheaper than the previous does not mean it is somehow worse. I believe the methods of application are easier with the HD group of coatings than SMC are/were. "HD coatings" are also a group of coatings and nt just one to be applied.

house · 02-25-2021, 06:56 AM

Originally posted by pres589

Just because a process is cheaper than the previous does not mean it is somehow worse. I believe the methods of application are easier with the HD group of coatings than SMC are/were. "HD coatings" are also a group of coatings and nt just one to be applied.

It was never my intention to suggest HD is worse. I believe it's better, my HD lenses are great. The two sentences were replies to two separate aspects of the OP question.
Even if HD is better id say it's not worth the upgrade unless you are a collector or someone who shoots A LOT of backlit photos.

biz-engineer · 02-25-2021, 09:36 AM

In case of dilemma, keep the smc as limited backup and buy the new HD. You get the best of both worlds: stars burst from the smc version and rounded bokeh balls from the HD version.

ChristianRock · 02-25-2021, 09:57 AM

Should I save my pennies for some 200 dollar 31s and 77s to be available later this year?

I bet most of you would keep both versions rather than selling them too cheap.

stevebrot · 02-25-2021, 10:03 AM

Originally posted by i_trax

Is there that much difference between SMC and HD with rounded aperture blades Limited lenses?

Question...Do you currently have issues with flare or aperture roundness?

Question...Do you like having starbursts?

Question...Is potential for a reactive dip in resale value a signal to sell (as in securities trading)?

Steve

(...has no idea of the market value of my pristine (MIJ!) FA 77/1.8 Limited...has no issues with flare or roundness...does not know if it makes starbursts...)

**BarryE** · 02-25-2021, 10:06 AM

Prepare for a bit of heresy. I have the trio. All have their flaws, but they can be outstanding.

The heresy bit ... on each lens (in fact 95% of my lenses) I've fitted B+W nano protective filters. In all my testing I've noticed no deterioration in IQ, but in some cases, with difficult light, they have reduce the flare. So I wonder if HD would be that much better than an SMC/B+W combination, for flare.

Of course if I were to buy an HD version I'd want to protect them to with a B+W :-) I did this on my HD DA versions and again noticed zero difference. The flare was better as we know on the HD version anyway and the filter changed nothing.

I feel the change of blades will be subjective. The results will be different. But better?

If I didn't have the SMC versions I'd be very happy to buy the new HD versions, which I'm sure will handle flare a little better. But how much with the extra filter ...?

Yes I'm a fan of B+W protective filters. I've tried many others and they degrade the image. Here I'm being specific to this type of filter.

Adam · 02-25-2021, 10:07 AM - **1 Like**

This should give you a good idea of what to expect:
HD vs. SMC Pentax Limited Primes Review - Introduction | PentaxForums.com Reviews

02-25-2021, 05:24 AM	#1
i_trax Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Perth Western Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,621	HD Pentax 31mm F1.8, 43mm F1.9 and 77mm F1.8 Limited lenses dilemma............. Well , you probably already can guess my question. I do have SMC silver versions of those lenses and love them. Is there that much difference between SMC and HD with rounded aperture blades Limited lenses? The HD's apparently are cheaper , why? Will value of SMC's drop dramatically? Are HD's much better in photo IQ? Should we all rush and sell all SMC's and order HD's in the anticipation of much more pleasurable experience?

02-25-2021, 10:07 AM - 1 Like	#15
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,593	This should give you a good idea of what to expect: HD vs. SMC Pentax Limited Primes Review - Introduction \| PentaxForums.com Reviews Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

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02-25-2021, 05:28 AM - 3 Likes	#2
pepperberry farm amateur dirt farmer Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: probably out in a field somewhere... Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 41,636	Originally posted by i_trax Should we all rush and sell all SMC's and order HD's in the anticipation of much more pleasurable experience? yes...

02-25-2021, 05:39 AM	#3
Y_V_E_S Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Spokane, WA Photos: Albums Posts: 54	I’ll most likely sell my smc trio for the HD versions.

02-25-2021, 06:08 AM - 2 Likes	#4
Kwong Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Canada Photos: Albums Posts: 198	Originally posted by i_trax Well , you probably already can guess my question. I do have SMC silver versions of those lenses and love them. Is there that much difference between SMC and HD with rounded aperture blades Limited lenses? The HD's apparently are cheaper , why? Will value of SMC's drop dramatically? Are HD's much better in photo IQ? Should we all rush and sell all SMC's and order HD's in the anticipation of much more pleasurable experience? I'll take the wait and see approach. I just finished completing my set last year. There's going to have to be huge gains in performance for me to upgrade. Like the DA LTD I saw no need to buy the new HD versions.

02-25-2021, 06:12 AM - 2 Likes	#5
bdery Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Quebec city, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,357	It's hard to answer since the lenses are not available yet. Based on the same "upgrade" which was dont with the DA Limited several years ago, we could assume that flare will indeed be better, sharpness (perceived) better also, but those two should be marginal, since the lenses are pretty good to start with. Out-of-focus rendering would likely improve, but that part is much trickier. The FA Limited were designed specifically to tune and optimize the out-of-focus rendering, so anything which touches that is risky. It could be "different"' without being "better". And the FA Limted aree already so good, it's hard to imagine a way to really, visibly improve them. Plus, the 31 and 43 are known for their ability to crate beautiful starbursts, and the circular apertures will cripple that. The SP coatings are a nice perk, making the lenses easier to clean. In my opinion, the upgrade is drive by the fact that stock for the former FA Limited lenses was probably low and they needed to resupply parts anyway, so why not apply their updated coatings? And the circular aperture might be easier to source in 2021 since everyone is doing that. I'll wait and see, but I'm not holding my breath.

02-25-2021, 06:17 AM - 2 Likes	#6
noelpolar Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Goolwa, SA Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,310	Makes no sense what's so ever.... none.... zero..... with one exception.... that would be if you were being held captive at gun point.... and you had to rid yourself off all your money on things that will not make any difference to your life.... or you would be shot. If that is your set of circumstances.... then a set of black and a set of silver would be a wise purchase. Off course.... if you have children this would not apply.... as you would be broke already.

02-25-2021, 06:27 AM - 5 Likes	#7
Sandy Hancock Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Adelaide Hills, South Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,267	You need to get the HD trio in black. Then the world will be back in balance....

02-25-2021, 06:37 AM	#8
house Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 3,306	Originally posted by i_trax Well , you probably already can guess my question. I do have SMC silver versions of those lenses and love them. Is there that much difference between SMC and HD with rounded aperture blades Limited lenses? The HD's apparently are cheaper , why? Will value of SMC's drop dramatically? Are HD's much better in photo IQ? Should we all rush and sell all SMC's and order HD's in the anticipation of much more pleasurable experience? It makes no sense to sell the SMC to buy the HD. HD is reportedly a cheaper process than SMC that probably why they are cheaper.

02-25-2021, 06:42 AM	#9
pres589 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Wichita, KS Photos: Albums Posts: 4,529	You really want to just mail me your FA 77. Just send it and look forward to the future. Forget the past! Give it to me! ---------- Post added 02-25-21 at 08:46 AM ---------- Originally posted by house It makes no sense to sell the SMC to buy the HD. HD is reportedly a cheaper process than SMC that probably why they are cheaper. I would check tests & samples of the lenses when they hit the street. Some of the lenses that moves from SMC to HD performed noticeably better. Sometimes not. Wait until the tests and people can judge for themselves what they want to do. Just because a process is cheaper than the previous does not mean it is somehow worse. I believe the methods of application are easier with the HD group of coatings than SMC are/were. "HD coatings" are also a group of coatings and nt just one to be applied.

02-25-2021, 06:56 AM	#10
house Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 3,306	Originally posted by pres589 Just because a process is cheaper than the previous does not mean it is somehow worse. I believe the methods of application are easier with the HD group of coatings than SMC are/were. "HD coatings" are also a group of coatings and nt just one to be applied. It was never my intention to suggest HD is worse. I believe it's better, my HD lenses are great. The two sentences were replies to two separate aspects of the OP question. Even if HD is better id say it's not worth the upgrade unless you are a collector or someone who shoots A LOT of backlit photos.

02-25-2021, 09:36 AM	#11
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,225	In case of dilemma, keep the smc as limited backup and buy the new HD. You get the best of both worlds: stars burst from the smc version and rounded bokeh balls from the HD version.

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02-25-2021, 09:57 AM	#12
ChristianRock Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: People's Republic of America Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,910	Should I save my pennies for some 200 dollar 31s and 77s to be available later this year? I bet most of you would keep both versions rather than selling them too cheap.

02-25-2021, 10:03 AM	#13
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by i_trax Is there that much difference between SMC and HD with rounded aperture blades Limited lenses? Question...Do you currently have issues with flare or aperture roundness? Question...Do you like having starbursts? Question...Is potential for a reactive dip in resale value a signal to sell (as in securities trading)? Steve (...has no idea of the market value of my pristine (MIJ!) FA 77/1.8 Limited...has no issues with flare or roundness...does not know if it makes starbursts...)

02-25-2021, 10:06 AM	#14
BarryE Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Hampshire, UK Posts: 1,653	Prepare for a bit of heresy. I have the trio. All have their flaws, but they can be outstanding. The heresy bit ... on each lens (in fact 95% of my lenses) I've fitted B+W nano protective filters. In all my testing I've noticed no deterioration in IQ, but in some cases, with difficult light, they have reduce the flare. So I wonder if HD would be that much better than an SMC/B+W combination, for flare. Of course if I were to buy an HD version I'd want to protect them to with a B+W :-) I did this on my HD DA versions and again noticed zero difference. The flare was better as we know on the HD version anyway and the filter changed nothing. I feel the change of blades will be subjective. The results will be different. But better? If I didn't have the SMC versions I'd be very happy to buy the new HD versions, which I'm sure will handle flare a little better. But how much with the extra filter ...? Yes I'm a fan of B+W protective filters. I've tried many others and they degrade the image. Here I'm being specific to this type of filter.