[clackers]

Sad, no doubt. The sales were so low for this I doubt it has been produced for years, and there will be zero chance of a replacement - it's just not wanted.

I don't mean by individuals - I've seen so many stunning photos taken with it by forum members.

But you don't make products for individuals, you make them for demographics, or go bankrupt!

Olympus in their final years released a 600mm 'equivalent' f4 prime and a weathersealed sports body that could do up to 60fps, but all that happened was the financial losses piled up. For all the cost of development, who actually bought them?

[Paul the Sunman]

In fact, the release of the K3iii may have hastened the end for the DA 560, as I read somewhere on PF that the focus is pretty slow. I certainly hope there is a replacement, to suit the K3iii. The question is whether it would be a crop lens only.

[cmohr]

I would say it needs to be a Prime, long and fast, we already have the DFA150-450, so a DFA 500/f4 or f4.5 and a 1.4TC (FF) would be the ticket. Especially with the K-3iii a sports camera designed for sports and action, not having longer sports lenses doesn't make sense. .

Sigma Sports 500/f4 would be great if Sigma still did K-mount, which, with the release of the K AF4 mount, should have been a no brainer for continuing K-mount support as it wasn't like they had to manufacture completely different interfaces ( ie screwdrive for AF and linkages for aperture control, now its all electronic), and with no Pentax lens (at that time ) to compete against , Pentax people would have been buying, where as with the Canon and Nikons, they continue to support, they are selling lenses that those manufacturers already had available to their users. I think they kinda shot themselves in the foot, at the time K-1 was released, and no 150-450 out at the time, Sigma could have made a killing on sales of the 150-600 and sold quite a few 500/f4's as well. Now with the K-3iii out, people would be grabbing the 150-600 by the handful.

[RGlasel]

The question is whether it would be a crop lens only.

The DA * 200mm and DA * 300mm (and unofficially the DA 560mm) are FF compatible even if they were originally designed for Pentax APS-C cameras. I'm not an optical engineer, but it seems that you can't design a smaller long telephoto prime in K-mount to only cover the APS-C image circle.

[bilybianca]

3) D-FA 600/5.6

I don't think 600/4 lenses makes much sense anymore. They weight and cost twice as much as a 600/5.6. They are from an age when 200ISO was high speed......

+1

Kjell

[Kunzite]

Pentax DFA 70-210 is a fairly recent rebadge, and with KAF4 at that. I could see Ricoh reaching out to Sigma/Tamron for stuff. They certainly have some surplus glass, repackaging them into different housing and a mount shouldn't be that much of an issue.

However, I feel more like Pentax is finally going to introduce tele lenses with optical IS working in tandem with IBIS.

Ricoh never reached out to Sigma for stuff.
As long as Tamron doesn't discontinue the 150-600, yes, a Pentax-branded version is possible. I just don't expect it (because it's too similar to the D FA 150-450).
Of course, neither Sigma nor Tamron would introduce new K-mount lenses on their own.

You might be right about combining in-lens with in-body SR; I guess you're aware about the 70-300 patent.

[clackers]

Sigma Sports 500/f4 would be great if Sigma still did K-mount, which, with the release of the K AF4 mount, should have been a no brainer for continuing K-mount support as it wasn't like they had to manufacture completely different interfaces

The lens market has crashed at the same rate as the camera market, unfortunately, cmohr.

Tamron, Sigma, Tokina, and Cosina all have to survive.

Since Sigma doesn't make lenses for Fuji X mount and pretty much none for micro 43 (Pansonic and Olympus), it really makes no sense to make them for little Pentax with perhaps less than two percent marketshare. Commercial suicide!

[Tas]

This is an interesting thread, especially now that I have a K3 Mk III and a hankering to capture some surfing and motorcycle racing for the first time in years.

I've pondered the DA 560, but have resisted committing around 6,000-7000 Dingoes on that lens, as I've been keeping an eye out for a decent condition 600/4 and just focused on using the K-1 and 150-450 whilst pondering my navel along with a DA 560 purchase.

But now the clock is ticking on the availability on the longest K mount lens worth buying that can still be bought new and has contemporary coatings etc.

I've read the DA 1.4 converter reviews, including the design aspect for lenses of f4 and faster. That suggests that maybe the combination of the converter with the 150-450 will mean focus lock will be less than stellar for capturing action/sports images.

I would like to see one of the 150-600 options for sure, but agree that's not something to hold out for. The extra focal length, especially with the flexibility with the zoom would be the best option, seeing the chance of a good quality 250-600 falling in my lap is about as likely as my looks improving (my head scares small dogs and farm animals).

By chance, does anyone have any experience using the K3 Mk III, the DA 1.4 converter and the D-FA 150-450 to talk AF speed/accuracy?


Tas

[JPT]

I don't think this has much to do with low sales. This 560mm was only ever available as a special order item, so they knew it was going to be a slow seller from the beginning. This is the kind of lens that makers know they are going to lose money on, but they have to have for system completeness. I think Canon said something similar about their tilt-shift lenses.

So I think that the reason it is discontinued is either some supply chain disaster that they don't think will be solved, or a plan to cover that range in another way. The latter seems more likely. I personally think working with Tamron on a K-mount 150-600 would be a good idea and popular with users. The 150-450 would still be a bit better in terms of aperture and image quality. They might calculate that they lose a few 150-450 sales, but it's better business overall than developing something new or leaving the range uncatered for.

The lens market has crashed at the same rate as the camera market, unfortunately, cmohr.

More so I think. It's not just that the market is shrinking, but also that Nikon and Canon seem to be making it difficult to make lenses for their new mounts. That's where both companies used to make their money. I think that is why Sigma is suddenly putting more effort into L-mount and making cameras. Tamron seem mainly focussed on E-mount now and the others don't want to let them in.

Tamron still has a few lenses that would be nice to have in K-mount, but that probably won't happen if Ricoh doesn't initiate it. Given that it is unlikely that 3rd parties will develop new DSLR lenses in future, I hope Ricoh can work with Tamron to get a few more out while they have that option. Then they can focus their in-house development on what Tamron doesn't make, which is still plenty.

So I think there will be something to cover the long end in some way, and rebranding the 150-600 in K-mount is one logical way of doing it.

[Billking]

Rebadge Sigma 500mm F4 HSM. And the 1.4xTC to go with it. Joe

I would save hard to get my hands on one of them. Even a 400mm F4 prime would be the bomb. Paired with the K3iii and 1.4X TC it would have plenty of reach.

[angerdan]

What are your ideas on the subject, what should or could do Ricoh imaging to "refurbish" the K-mount roadmap at its long end ?

I'd name these wishes as suggestions:

• HD D FA 560mm with highspeed AF motor and 3-step focus limiter (5,6-12m / 12m-∞ / full)
• License production of Sigma 500mm f4.x for Pentax K-AF mount
• Relaunch of F(A)* 250-600mm f5.6
• Pentax - Thoughts on making a DA*/DFA 400mm F4? - PentaxForums.com
• Will we ever get a 400mm f2.8 lens for sports photographers? - PentaxForums.com
• DA* 400mm F4 coming! - PentaxForums.com

[Pål Jensen]

Sad, no doubt. The sales were so low for this I doubt it has been produced for years, and there will be zero chance of a replacement - it's just not wanted.

I'm pretty sure they made only one batch of this lens. 400 units (I know that the press release says 400 units a month, but I've been told that there was only 400 made).
One solution is that they design a super telephoto and market it along with a third party (eg. Tamron or Tokina), like they did with the D-FA* 50/1.4 in order to get the volume high enough.....

[redpit]

I'm sure that Ricoh/Pentax will come up with something new or even an updated version of the DA 560 which I consider a great prime lens. The problem is that the new K-3iii made clear the weaknesses of this lens. If it was fucntioning like the DFA 150-450 in terms of speed, AF accuracy and tracking capabilities, Pentax would already being advertising this combo and probably producing-releasing a new batch. I think they have seen that it is a lens that cannot follow the K-3iii advances and that issue must be taken care somehow.

I have tested it against the DFA 150-450 on the K-3iii and I can tel you this. The DFA 150-450 offers great AF-C tracking performance even under difficult conditions. I can track small or faraway flying birds (very small subjects in the viewfinder/frame) into busy backgrounds and have long bursts of shots with almost all of the images in focus. Even if the K-3iii looses focus while tracking with the DFA 150-450 after 2 or 3 frames it will reacquire perfect focus on the subject which is top performance especially for Pentax cameras! With the DA 560 I have to track the subject long enough before releasing the shutter and even then in the same conditions as above it will most probably loose focus at some point and never reacquire it no matter what technique I use (continuous burst, refocusing and small bursts etc). If the focus wasn't perfect on releasing the shutter all the images from the burst will be OOF which is disappointing... Obviously Pentax knows that very well and has to find a solution that is to offer a lond lens that will be a joy to use with the excellent K-3iii and the future cameras.

The DFA 150-450 with the HD 1.4X TC is not a good option for me (and all those who look for top IQ) as the IQ takes a significant hit with the TC and the same happens to the AF-C tracking performance. The only times this combo works satisfactorily is for close subjects up to 10-12 meters away. A new DFA* 250-600/5.6 while could be THE lens for new generation Pentax cameras is out of question from what I've talked with some people who have access to Pentax as it was too complicated to manufacture (the most complex lens in Pentax history) and I don't know what the price for such a lens in Pentaxland would be... If you think it differently the DFA 150-450 on a crop camera is a ~230-695/4.5-5.6 lens which (in papers) is even better option!

For me the best option would be an upgraded DA 560 with a fast AF motor and new focus limiter technology! The lens is excellent optically but needs a boost in its other qualities. If Pentax offered a new version and the possibility to the owners of this tele to upgrade it (like they did with the K-1ii) everybody would be happy and they would remain faithful to their principles and philosophy of backwards compatibility and joy of using older equipment.

Otherwise I see at some point a DFA* 300/2.8 coming with TCs which is a lens that could interest many more Pentaxians than a 500/4 for example, but OTOH not what we consider as a long tele prime.

I don't know we just have to wait and see what happens. I hope Pentax officials may reveal some of their plans for the future tele-lens(es) from Pentax and especially a great (DFA*?) prime which is a necessity if they want to utilize cameras like the K-3iii and future models that they will remain "crippled" and "confined" without a high end solution for those serious shooters that can afford it. Knowing that you have a DFA* 600/4 is very reassuring even if most of us can't afford it. Not having anything better/longer than the DFA 150-450 OTOH is a giant gap for Pentax and surely it will eventually make those nature/wildlife photographers look elsewhere... Just think about a possible new lens roadmap without the DA 560 beast filling the long tele end of the map...

[mocker]

I absolutely agree with redpit!

Something to add: Pentax sometimes surprised us with new lenses (not mentioned in the road map) so I expect replacement for sure. And it won't take so long as developing new camera.
For me personally the best option is 400F4 or even better better 500F4 (but not more than 4 kg.) which may be combined with 1.4TC.
Of corse new version of DA560 - but with the motor as DFA150-450 is an option, but I am not sure this will make the users of DA560 to pay another 5K euro for optically more or less lence. But if they offer the mentioned by redpit upgrade option (which I believe will be technically difficult if not impossible) it will be great!

DFA150-450 with 1.4 TC is not an option.
Same as DA560.

[termy]

The DA560 just need an upgrade of its AF motor, to make it faster.