[luftfluss]

1) Re-release as HD D-FA 560/5.6
2) A new D-FA 250-600/5.6
3) D-FA 600/5.6

I don't think 600/4 lenses makes much sense anymore. They weight and cost twice as much as a 600/5.6. They are from an age when 200ISO was high speed......

The Canon 600/4 L III weighs the same as the Pentax 560/5.6.

F4 makes teleconverters more feasible.

[thibs]

The DA * 200mm and DA * 300mm (and unofficially the DA 560mm) are FF compatible even if they were originally designed for Pentax APS-C cameras. I'm not an optical engineer, but it seems that you can't design a smaller long telephoto prime in K-mount to only cover the APS-C image circle.

1/ DA560 is officially FF compatible AFAIK
2/ DA200* optics dates back from FA* so FF compatible it certainly is.

[Andrea K]

I think that they will replace it with a prime lens with less focal length, maybe more speed but surely two dedicated RCs. I bet on the 400mm f/4.0 .

[Zygonyx]

The DA560 just need an upgrade of its AF motor, to make it faster.

I'd have thought so as well, though my own findings are not as bad as Redpit's AF speed/fixing in AF-C compared to DFA150-450mm.
Time will tell...

[redpit]

I'd have thought so as well, though my own findings are not as bad as Redpit's AF speed/fixing in AF-C compared to DFA150-450mm.
Time will tell...

I’m talking about working with the K-3iii. The DA 560 on K-1 is great and I prefer it so far as a camera for the lens. Maybe the K-3iii is too fast for this lens. I’m still experimenting with the various combos and compare the results.

PS: another “strange” finding is that the DA 560 wide open gives better results than stopped down in AF-C mode on the K-3iii! That makes me think that maybe fast lenses are the best option for the K-3iii AF module and this is further supported by the exceptional performance of the DFA*70-200/2.8 that has really surprised me...

[Kunzite]

I'm sure that Ricoh/Pentax will come up with something new or even an updated version of the DA 560 which I consider a great prime lens. The problem is that the new K-3iii made clear the weaknesses of this lens. If it was fucntioning like the DFA 150-450 in terms of speed, AF accuracy and tracking capabilities, Pentax would already being advertising this combo and probably producing-releasing a new batch. I think they have seen that it is a lens that cannot follow the K-3iii advances and that issue must be taken care somehow.

Thanks, I didn't imagined there's such a difference...
You might be right. But, with Pentax' speed, when would we find out??

[TwoUptons]

I’m talking about working with the K-3iii. The DA 560 on K-1 is great and I prefer it so far as a camera for the lens. Maybe the K-3iii is too fast for this lens. I’m still experimenting with the various combos and compare the results.

PS: another “strange” finding is that the DA 560 wide open gives better results than stopped down in AF-C mode on the K-3iii! That makes me think that maybe fast lenses are the best option for the K-3iii AF module and this is further supported by the exceptional performance of the DFA*70-200/2.8 that has really surprised me...

I wonder if there’s an issue with the lens aperture mechanism keeping up with the camera... that wouldn’t be a problem wide open, but at 12 fps stopped down a bit...

Maybe the replacement will be a refresh of this... it wouldn’t steal sales from the 150-450...
SMC Pentax 400-600mm Reflex Reviews - K Zoom Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database

-Eric

[clackers]

I'm pretty sure they made only one batch of this lens. 400 units (I know that the press release says 400 units a month, but I've been told that there was only 400 made).

I can believe that.

One solution is that they design a super telephoto and market it along with a third party (eg. Tamron or Tokina), like they did with the D-FA* 50/1.4 in order to get the volume high enough.....

Well, the problem is that the volume for those products is so low that neither Tamron nor Tokina have any wildlife primes in any mount, let alone K mount.

I think Tokina's 'Opera' partnership with the DFA*50 failed. It's an outstanding lens, and I remember reading some review on the web surprised by how good it was and that it was really what a Canon or Nikon owner should buy for their camera, but as an indicator, they did not extend the partnership to the DFA*85, despite it also being fantastic.

IMHO, it's just a reminder that no matter how badly we crave (need, some would say!) a very expensive prime, there are other camera owners who simply don't agree with us. Most people needing a long lens want to do kids' sports or whatever, and a zoom is preferred for that anyway because the subjects are sometimes far and sometimes close. The 55-300 and 150-450 do that, are cheaper, and have the autofocus speeds needed for action.

So, the DA*560 has been discontinued, and by what Pal's saying, after selling some number less than 400 copies in eight years, it breaks my heart to say it, but that's a failure and it makes no sense to do that again with any sort of successor. There's no business case, and companies can't make indulgent financial mistakes as the market crashes all around us.

I love seeing pictures taken with it though, so owners - keep posting 'em!

[RobA_Oz]

At its launch price ($6,600USD, I recall), which was anomalous by comparison with the rest of the Pentax range at the time, I thought the DA560 was something of an oddity then. If it had been launched now, with the capability of the K-3iii on display, and the pricing of the whole Pentax range of lenses ramping up, then the story may have been somewhat different. Of course, today it would have been fitted with a faster AF drive, but otherwise its specification (HD coatings and AW rating) would be satisfactory.

However, not having been in the market for the DA560, it hadn’t previously occurred to me to check its weight, which is 1kg more than the D FA150-450. That was a surprise to me, given that the 150-450 is more complex optically (18 elements in 14 groups, compared with the 560’s 7 elements in 6 groups) and only the front element of the 560 is bigger. The 560’s design is more like that of a conventional refractor telescope, but rigidity of the long barrel presumably called for more metal.

The 560 also has a longer close focus point than the 150-450.

All in all, although the 560 is appreciated by people who use it, I imagine an optical redesign to lower the weight and (as with the Canon 600) increase the maximum aperture would be considered a better option, now.

[termy]

So, the DA*560 has been discontinued, and by what Pal's saying, after selling some number less than 400 copies in eight years, it breaks my heart to say it, but that's a failure and it makes no sense to do that again with any sort of successor. There's no business case, and companies can't make indulgent financial mistakes as the market crashes all around us.

I love seeing pictures taken with it though, so owners - keep posting 'em!

Given the number of Pentax users (compared to Nikon, Canon etc), if it did really sell 400 copies, cannot quite really say it is a failure.

Because firstly, as mentioned, Pentax user base is very small.

And next, a 500 or 600 mm prime is a lens that very few people will be getting it in the first place.
(Unless one starts to do something like Canon, the 600mm and 800mm f11 prime)

[clackers]

Given the number of Pentax users (compared to Nikon, Canon etc), if it did really sell 400 copies, cannot quite really say it is a failure.

You can't run a global company with a product that has fifty sales a year, Termy, that's why it's been discontinued!

(Unless one starts to do something like Canon, the 600mm and 800mm f11 prime)

f11? How does it focus? The sample pics I saw weren't sharp, were loaded with CA, weird bokeh ... it's like the 500mm f8 mirror lens I've left somewhere under the house. No thanks!

I wish Canon good luck with them.

It's 7% of the cost of the Canon 800mm f5.6, so it won't help the company going 'premium' to arrest its financial decline.

[KiloHotelphoto]

And next, a 500 or 600 mm prime is a lens that very few people will be getting it in the first place.
(Unless one starts to do something like Canon, the 600mm and 800mm f11 prime)

Most of the lenses I see out in the wild are 600 F4's, it all comes down to what you shoot and where you go. I shoot 99% wildlife so when I'm out shooting I see other wildlife shooters, I couldn't tell you the last time I saw a 35,50 or 85mm lens out in the wild, it's probably been a few years.

In November and December I can go to a river near me and easily see a couple hundred 500,600 and 800mm lenses with people shooting eagles, and a lot of those have 1DX or D5 bodies on them and when the eagles are fishing the noise of those shutters and mirror flaps is something to hear.

I think Tokina's 'Opera' partnership with the DFA*50 failed. It's an outstanding lens, and I remember reading some review on the web surprised by how good it was and that it was really what a Canon or Nikon owner should buy for their camera, but as an indicator, they did not extend the partnership to the DFA*85, despite it also being fantastic.

I am renting the Tokina 50 1.4 the first week in June to try out on the R5. I was looking to see if they did they 85 also, that's the lens I was really interested in. I don't use the small focal length lenses enough to justify buying the RF 50 1.2 or 85 1.2 and even the EF 50 1.2 is more than what I would want to spend. If I like the Tokina though I think I can buy it new for 700-800 in EF mount and it should be much better than the RF 50 1.8

[termy]

You can't run a global company with a product that has fifty sales a year, Termy, that's why it's been discontinued!



f11? How does it focus? The sample pics I saw weren't sharp, were loaded with CA, weird bokeh ... it's like the 500mm f8 mirror lens I've left somewhere under the house. No thanks!

I wish Canon good luck with them.

It's 7% of the cost of the Canon 800mm f5.6, so it won't help the company going 'premium' to arrest its financial decline.

Yes. Aware.
Thats why its been discontinued.
But whether selling 400 of that handholdable monster is "failure", in the pentax user base context, could be viewed both ways.

For me, the DA560 is a very good long range prime, with 560mm reach, and very handholdable, gives superb image quality that can and will rival many 600mm f4 primes.

But likely did not sell more because firstly, pentax user base is very very small to start with,

and second, only a select small group of users (of any camera brand) will plonk for long primes (these just aren't like a 85mm or 135mm prime, where potential buyer could think "oh is ok, lemme buy n try and if i don't think i can stand lugging it, then i sell it").

As for the 600mm and 800mm f11 primes by Canon.
They are actually selling very well.

When i go snapping, i see many Canon users with these 600 or 800mm f11 primes, most often those who snap birds.

guess Canon been having very good luck with them.

[joehenryd]

I'm sure that Ricoh/Pentax will come up with something new or even an updated version of the DA 560 which I consider a great prime lens. The problem is that the new K-3iii made clear the weaknesses of this lens. If it was fucntioning like the DFA 150-450 in terms of speed, AF accuracy and tracking capabilities, Pentax would already being advertising this combo and probably producing-releasing a new batch. I think they have seen that it is a lens that cannot follow the K-3iii advances and that issue must be taken care somehow.

I have tested it against the DFA 150-450 on the K-3iii and I can tel you this. The DFA 150-450 offers great AF-C tracking performance even under difficult conditions. I can track small or faraway flying birds (very small subjects in the viewfinder/frame) into busy backgrounds and have long bursts of shots with almost all of the images in focus. Even if the K-3iii looses focus while tracking with the DFA 150-450 after 2 or 3 frames it will reacquire perfect focus on the subject which is top performance especially for Pentax cameras! With the DA 560 I have to track the subject long enough before releasing the shutter and even then in the same conditions as above it will most probably loose focus at some point and never reacquire it no matter what technique I use (continuous burst, refocusing and small bursts etc). If the focus wasn't perfect on releasing the shutter all the images from the burst will be OOF which is disappointing... Obviously Pentax knows that very well and has to find a solution that is to offer a lond lens that will be a joy to use with the excellent K-3iii and the future cameras.

The DFA 150-450 with the HD 1.4X TC is not a good option for me (and all those who look for top IQ) as the IQ takes a significant hit with the TC and the same happens to the AF-C tracking performance. The only times this combo works satisfactorily is for close subjects up to 10-12 meters away. A new DFA* 250-600/5.6 while could be THE lens for new generation Pentax cameras is out of question from what I've talked with some people who have access to Pentax as it was too complicated to manufacture (the most complex lens in Pentax history) and I don't know what the price for such a lens in Pentaxland would be... If you think it differently the DFA 150-450 on a crop camera is a ~230-695/4.5-5.6 lens which (in papers) is even better option!

For me the best option would be an upgraded DA 560 with a fast AF motor and new focus limiter technology! The lens is excellent optically but needs a boost in its other qualities. If Pentax offered a new version and the possibility to the owners of this tele to upgrade it (like they did with the K-1ii) everybody would be happy and they would remain faithful to their principles and philosophy of backwards compatibility and joy of using older equipment.

Otherwise I see at some point a DFA* 300/2.8 coming with TCs which is a lens that could interest many more Pentaxians than a 500/4 for example, but OTOH not what we consider as a long tele prime.

I don't know we just have to wait and see what happens. I hope Pentax officials may reveal some of their plans for the future tele-lens(es) from Pentax and especially a great (DFA*?) prime which is a necessity if they want to utilize cameras like the K-3iii and future models that they will remain "crippled" and "confined" without a high end solution for those serious shooters that can afford it. Knowing that you have a DFA* 600/4 is very reassuring even if most of us can't afford it. Not having anything better/longer than the DFA 150-450 OTOH is a giant gap for Pentax and surely it will eventually make those nature/wildlife photographers look elsewhere... Just think about a possible new lens roadmap without the DA 560 beast filling the long tele end of the map...

Wasn't the FA*250-600 a power zoom lens? Joe

[clackers]

For me, the DA560 is a very good long range prime, with 560mm reach, and very handholdable, gives superb image quality that can and will rival many 600mm f4 primes.

I'd absolutely love one, so it wouldn't be a failure with me, just for the poor guy at Ricoh who convinced his bosses that it would sell.