Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
11-26-2008, 06:37 PM   #1
Pentaxian
8540tomg's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Waterloo, Ontario
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,445
DA vs FA Limited and the question of full frame digital

Hi all,

I am bit puzzled over which series of lenses to buy next. As you can see from my signature I only have one ďmodernĒ lens the DA 70 2.4. This is a fine lens and I am well pleased with it. Of late Iím a little concerned that the advent of the full frame DSLR will render the DA series obsolete (vignetting) sooner than many of us might wish. Consequently, I am leaning towards the FA limiteds as I expand in this area. As a group the FAs are a little faster, larger and usually more expensive than their DA limited cousins. It is my understanding the DA lenses focus faster, are smaller, lighter and a little slower. All receive great reviews in the database. It is a tough choice. Am I unduly concerned over the full frame issue? Thoughts?

Tom G

11-26-2008, 06:41 PM   #2
Ole
Administrator
Ole's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,818
I stay away from the DA's for the reason you mention except where there is no A/F/FA alternative, such as the DA 12-24mm f/4 and the DA 10-17.

Also, I still shoot film from time to time, so I prefer the full-frame lenses.

With that said - I'll probably not be able to resist the DA 15mm limited and the DA*60-250!
11-26-2008, 06:47 PM   #3
Veteran Member
Miserere's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Boston
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,994
QuoteOriginally posted by Ole Quote
I'll probably not be able to resist the DA 15mm limited and the DA*60-250!
Well, the 15 Ltd is a lens that exists solely because of APS-C, so there's no reason to NOT buy it just because you're afraid of FF. If you have a FF camera you will buy a 24mm lens.

It seems like the DA* 60-250mm might be a FF lens, so there's no need to worry too much.

There's a thread somewhere around PentaxForums testing DA lenses on film to figure out which ones work with full frame and which ones don't. I believe the DA 70 Ltd works OK on FF.
11-26-2008, 07:11 PM   #4
Pentaxian
Marc Sabatella's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Denver, CO
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 10,686
QuoteOriginally posted by 8540tomg Quote
Of late Iím a little concerned that the advent of the full frame DSLR will render the DA series obsolete (vignetting) sooner than many of us might wish
...Am I unduly concerned over the full frame issue? Thoughts?
Are you thinking that someone is going to force you to buy a FF camera, just because Pentax might someday offer one? After all this investment in APS-C lenses, Pentax is extremely unlikely to stop supporting the APS-C product line.

11-26-2008, 07:31 PM   #5
Veteran Member
Sean Nelson's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Vancouver BC Canada
Posts: 353
QuoteOriginally posted by 8540tomg Quote
Of late Iím a little concerned that the advent of the full frame DSLR will render the DA series obsolete (vignetting) sooner than many of us might wish.
Marc is right - the DA series is no more likely to be obsolete than the M/F/FA series was when the Pentax 67 and 645 lines were introduced.
11-26-2008, 07:35 PM   #6
Pentaxian
8540tomg's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Waterloo, Ontario
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,445
Original Poster
Marc,

No I'm not concerned that I will be forced to buy a full frame but rather that I will want one. My K10D is a fine camera but it is more a computer than a camera. As a computer I expect it will have a far shorter effective life span than my K2 or MX film cameras. Such is the nature of consumer electronics. I believe the K10D is rated for 100,000 shutter actuations. That is a lot of shots but the salesman at Henry's informed me that while it may go well beyond that number it will eventually need service. He also suggested that such service is very expensive and usually not worth the money. Judging by the way the value of the K10D has dropped over the past year or so he is likely right. Iíll probably hit this number in three or four yearís time. If my K10D shutter starts to act up I probably wonít get it fixed. I suspect full frame sensors will be the norm then and I'm certain to want one. I just don't want to lock myself into the DA series if they are going to vignette on a full frame sensor.

You are right Marc in that Pentax has a long history of backward compatibility. I love the fact that I can use my old K, M and A series glass on my K10D. That is the main reason I stayed with Pentax when I went digital. But Pentax is now owned by Hoya. Will Hoya continue to support the APS-C product line?

Tom G
11-26-2008, 11:24 PM   #7
Veteran Member
roentarre's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 11,794
QuoteOriginally posted by Miserere Quote
Well, the 15 Ltd is a lens that exists solely because of APS-C, so there's no reason to NOT buy it just because you're afraid of FF. If you have a FF camera you will buy a 24mm lens.

It seems like the DA* 60-250mm might be a FF lens, so there's no need to worry too much.

There's a thread somewhere around PentaxForums testing DA lenses on film to figure out which ones work with full frame and which ones don't. I believe the DA 70 Ltd works OK on FF.
Yes, if 15 ltd is really coming through into the market, I would sell my 16-50 to get this lovely prime instead.

Da 70 vignetts quite a bit on film body and I prefer the rendering from Fa 77 ltd on film. I shot 3 rolls of images with Fa 77 ltd 2 years ago and they turned out soooooo nicely on Impressa
11-26-2008, 11:41 PM   #8
Veteran Member
lbam's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Toronto
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 443
QuoteOriginally posted by 8540tomg Quote
Marc,

Such is the nature of consumer electronics. I believe the K10D is rated for 100,000 shutter actuations. That is a lot of shots but the salesman at Henry's informed me that while it may go well beyond that number it will eventually need service. He also suggested that such service is very expensive and usually not worth the money. Judging by the way the value of the K10D has dropped over the past year or so he is likely right. I’ll probably hit this number in three or four year’s time. If my K10D shutter starts to act up I probably won’t get it fixed. I suspect full frame sensors will be the norm then and I'm certain to want one. I just don't want to lock myself into the DA series if they are going to vignette on a full frame sensor.


Tom G
Hmm, a thought provoking perspective.


I'd like to add that I wonder if there will be any mirrors, or other moving parts in camera's in 3 or 4 years time... Take the Panasonic G1 as the example....
Actually having mentioned that camera, it also interesting to note it uses a smaller sensor than Pentax SLR's so who know's maybe by then sensor's the size of 35mm film will also be an overkill for most of us (as they get even more effective).
Just open thoughts...

Pentax might still be in the sweet spot if it can ride the "must have a full frame camera" wave...
Olympus certainly have some very nice lenses for their 4 thirds system now ED 14-35mm 1:2.0 SWD for example (if you can afford it!!)


Last edited by lbam; 11-27-2008 at 02:46 PM.
11-27-2008, 12:23 AM   #9
Veteran Member
troyz's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 389
QuoteOriginally posted by 8540tomg Quote
Hi all,

I am bit puzzled over which series of lenses to buy next. As you can see from my signature I only have one ďmodernĒ lens the DA 70 2.4. This is a fine lens and I am well pleased with it. Of late Iím a little concerned that the advent of the full frame DSLR will render the DA series obsolete (vignetting) sooner than many of us might wish. Consequently, I am leaning towards the FA limiteds as I expand in this area. As a group the FAs are a little faster, larger and usually more expensive than their DA limited cousins. It is my understanding the DA lenses focus faster, are smaller, lighter and a little slower. All receive great reviews in the database. It is a tough choice. Am I unduly concerned over the full frame issue? Thoughts?

Tom G
My opinion depends on focal length.

For an APS-C wide (20mm-ish), I strongly prefer the DA21 over full-frame superwide (20mm-ish) lenses. The DA21 is compact, not terribly expensive, and is less prone to flare than full-frame alternatives.

FA31 versus DA35 is a tossup; I *heart* my FA31 but the DA35 is smaller and (others claim) performs very well indeed. I think I could live with f/2.8; I prefer longer lenses for shallow-DOF work anyway.

Beyond that (DA40/FA43/DA70/FA77) I'm not aware of any significant disadvantage with full-frame lenses.

All that being said, I think APS-C-sized sensors will still be commonplace several years from now, since APS-C sized sensors are already good enough for most applications and will always be much less costly to fabricate than a full-frame sensor.
11-27-2008, 07:44 AM   #10
Veteran Member
Albert Siegel's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Tokyo
Photos: Albums
Posts: 343
I have zero interest in full-frame cameras. I am more than happy with what I get from my K20D and I love the size and weight reduction for the same FOV I get with APS type cameras. I for one hope that APS will continue to be made as high-end bodies and be sold along side full-frame for a long time.
11-27-2008, 10:14 AM   #11
Veteran Member
kristoffon's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Brazil
Posts: 532
Going from APS-C to full frame is like a different system entirely, even when FF cameras are available (might be next year, or five years from now, who knows?) not everyone will make the jump. I probably won't. Consider also where APS-C sensor technology will be two years down the road.

Having said that, most of my lenses are full frame, though I chose them without actually paying much attention to that. I chose 31 and 77 limiteds as opposed to their DA equivalents since they are faster, and better build, and their reputation is without equal.
11-27-2008, 11:40 AM   #12
Veteran Member
Sean Nelson's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Vancouver BC Canada
Posts: 353
QuoteOriginally posted by 8540tomg Quote
I suspect full frame sensors will be the norm then and I'm certain to want one.
Available in K mount? Perhaps. But "the Norm"? Unlikely.

APS-C will always be cheaper, and as the old 80/20 rule goes, for most of the people it will be good enough. APS-C is now the new "norm", just as 35mm wrested the tile of "norm" from medium format during the 60's and 70's.
11-27-2008, 11:50 AM   #13
Inactive Account




Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Nanaimo, BC
Posts: 261
QuoteOriginally posted by 8540tomg Quote
Marc,

No I'm not concerned that I will be forced to buy a full frame but rather that I will want one. My K10D is a fine camera but it is more a computer than a camera. As a computer I expect it will have a far shorter effective life span than my K2 or MX film cameras. Such is the nature of consumer electronics. I believe the K10D is rated for 100,000 shutter actuations. That is a lot of shots but the salesman at Henry's informed me that while it may go well beyond that number it will eventually need service. He also suggested that such service is very expensive and usually not worth the money. Judging by the way the value of the K10D has dropped over the past year or so he is likely right. Iíll probably hit this number in three or four yearís time. If my K10D shutter starts to act up I probably wonít get it fixed. I suspect full frame sensors will be the norm then and I'm certain to want one. I just don't want to lock myself into the DA series if they are going to vignette on a full frame sensor.

You are right Marc in that Pentax has a long history of backward compatibility. I love the fact that I can use my old K, M and A series glass on my K10D. That is the main reason I stayed with Pentax when I went digital. But Pentax is now owned by Hoya. Will Hoya continue to support the APS-C product line?

Tom G
If Hoya kills the APS-C product line, Pentax would be history, except for those of us who still enjoy using Spotmatics and the like. However small Pentax's slice of the DSLR market is, you don't turn around and pull the rug out from under your dedicated customers.

The salesman at Henry's is just that: a salesman. What makes him more money, sending your camera out for service, or having you buy a new one? I work in the retail camera business, and I hate people like that. They give us all a bad name. Camera service does not cost as much as a new DSLR, the same way a new engine doesn't cost the same amount of money as a new car, but try and win an argument against a salesperson who thinks otherwise. I sell people photo equipment, but I also sell them what keeps their camera gear in order: accessories and service.

Sorry to go on a tirade, but I can't stand that "throw it away" mentality.
11-27-2008, 01:29 PM   #14
Veteran Member
farfisa's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,274
The Panasonic G1 has a 2x crop factor, though. so a 14-35 would be like a 28-70 on film or on APS-C that'd be like a ... 19-46?... I think I broke my head.

But I agree, I think the mirror's going to go away on some cameras, but a lot of people will be wanting traditional viewfinders (G1 has an electronic).

Hell, lbam, you use a split focusing screen in 2008--couldn't do that without a mirror!

or could you

QuoteOriginally posted by lbam Quote
Hmm, a thought provoking perspective.


I'd like to add that I wonder if there will be any mirrors, or other moving parts in camera's in 3 or 4 years time... Take the Panasonic G1 as the example....
Actually having mentioned that camera, it also interesting to note it uses a smaller sensor than Pentax SLR's so who know's maybe by then sensor's the size of 35mm film will also be an overkill for most of us (as they get even more effective).
Just open thoughts...

Pentax might still be in the sweet spot if it can ride the must have a "full frame camera" wave...
Olympus certainly have some very nice lenses for their 4 thirds system now ED 14-35mm 1:2.0 SWD for example (if you can afford it!!)
11-27-2008, 02:20 PM   #15
Inactive Account




Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Brisbane, QLD, AUS
Posts: 3,262
QuoteOriginally posted by farfisa Quote
The Panasonic G1 has a 2x crop factor, though. so a 14-35 would be like a 28-70 on film or on APS-C that'd be like a ... 19-46?... I think I broke my head.
21.5-52.5mm.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
da, fa, frame, k-mount, lens, lenses, pentax lens, series, slr lens
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
full frame digital beaumont Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 55 01-30-2011 06:31 AM
LX + Scan=Full Frame Digital ziggy7 Pentax Film SLR Discussion 45 01-09-2011 01:59 AM
Is full frame the medium format of the digital era ? ghelary Photographic Technique 2 05-28-2009 08:50 AM
Digital Only or Full Frame lenses JamieP Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 15 05-10-2009 08:48 PM
Full Frame Digital with DA lenses konraDarnok Pentax News and Rumors 27 08-20-2008 11:07 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:36 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top