Do I need to upgrade from the "kit" lens?

**jatrax** · 07-26-2021, 07:39 AM - **2 Likes**

I had and used the DA*16-50 for many years. My experience with it was positive and when the SDM failed I converted it to screwdrive and kept going.

I replaced the 16-50 with the DA16-85 as the longer focal length suited my use at the time. As noted above there is no issue with the 16-85 AF, it uses a DC motor unrelated to the SDM of the 16-50 and has been extremely reliable.

One thing to keep in mind is that at f/8 and reasonable light it is difficult to tell most lenses apart. Your 'kit' lens and the DA*16-50 at f/8 will not show a lot of difference. When you buy an expensive lens you are buying the ability to take photographs on the edges, in poor light, at f/2.8 or whatever. So if you always shoot in good light at f/8 do not expect a huge improvement. That said the old saying is that bodies come and go but glass is forever. I've never regretted buying good glass.

Lloyd_Christmas · 07-26-2021, 07:43 AM

Originally posted by bilybianca

An interesting picture without perfect sharpness is much preferable over a boring depiction made for pixel peepers.

Well said!

**aslyfox** · 07-26-2021, 08:12 AM

Originally posted by MXLX

Yeah, I know there's no good answer. . . . .

not sure the desire to get more gear [ GAS ] fits into Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs

The 5 Levels of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs

[ who cares, go for it

]

**othar** · 07-26-2021, 08:23 AM

Originally posted by Madaboutpix

Can you take cool photos with your kitzoom? Yeah, by all means you can, but do yourself the favour at some point to explore how much more your camera can do with real glass.

While I agree that one shouldn't limit oneself to using one lens alone (why bother buying a DSLR for that

), especially not the 18-55mm kit lens, I don't necessarily see a reason to permanently get rid of it either.

I have a lot of lenses for many different purposes: a macro lens for flowers and insects, fast primes for subjects isolation or low light situations, various tele lenses for animals or landscapes, a F 35-70mm lens as walk-around lens when hiking/mountaineering (the missing wide angle capabilities beeing an advantage and no hindrance in my opinion),...

Nervertheless there is still an occasional purpose for my DAL 18-55mm WR lens:
it is not a fast lens, but light and small while offering a reasonable zoom range;
could it be sharper? - yes, but it isn't that terrible as some paint it to be either, furthermore is not every photograph intended to be a piece of art and/or printed in a large format.

35mmfilmfan · 07-26-2021, 08:46 AM

Define 'Need' !

Do you want to 'upgrade' ? Yes

Do you need to 'upgrade' to improve your images ? Read replies above

Do you need to 'upgrade' to give you pleasure, satisfaction and (possibly) a certain amount of 'street cred' ? I think this is a 'Yes' as well. FWIW, although I have several 18-55 lenses, my usual day kit is Sigma 10-20, Pentax 18-135, Sigma 105mm macro and Pentax 55-300. No desire to upgrade any of these - as yet !

normhead · 07-26-2021, 08:49 AM - **1 Like**

For myself, having the Tamron 17-50, DA 18-135 and DA 16-85, the Tamron is unreliable, the 18-35 I almost a specialty lens, good at what it does, not adequate for some of the things it doesn't do, and the 16-85 is the reliable good a almost everything lens. Looking at my images for this year, lots of images taken with 2.8 lenses, none taken at 2.8. I tend to wonder what 2.8 is actually for. My DA* 55 1.4 does narrow DoF much better than a 2.8 version. 2.8 is definitely not necessary for everyone. So I'd aim or our travelling kit.

DA 16-85, DA 55-300 PLM and any 1.4 to 2.8 lens of your choice, which or me would be the DA*55 1.4, the Rokinin 14 2.8 for astro photography), The DFA 100 2.8 macro, The FA 50 macro 2.8 or Sigma 24 2.8 (form macro photography , and or landscape, depending on what I expect to be shooting.

I'd suggestive the DA 16-85 is the default (first step up after kit) lens, with others considered of you have need. But I'd also consider the 18-135, for the extra reach if you were planning a one les walking kit. Find with the 17-50 type kit lenses, you're going have a lot of lens changes. Tess would rather walk around with her Tamron 90 macro on the camera than have to deal with the limitations of her Tamron 17-50. Again it comes down to "how much futzing around do you want to do?

Want fewer lens changes and more shooting In order of preference"
1. DA 18-135,
2. DA 16-85,
3. any 18-250

Shooting indoors in low light:
1. Any 1.4-2.4 prime.
2. any 2.8 16-50 zoom

Landscape:
1. DA 16-85,
2. a Prime in the desired focal length

General walk around lens:
1. DA 18-135
2. DA 16-85
3. any 16-50 coupled with the DA* 50-135 or longer zoom.

That would reflect our usage. Since we got the DA 16-85 the Tamron 17-50 has had it's use greatly diminished. It is choice between range vs 2.8, and most of our shots are at ƒ5.6 or ƒ8 so the only advantage to 2.8 is focussing in low light. For our shooting , it's a no brainer to advocate the getting the DA 16-85 as your "better than kit" lens, and then deciding what to do for wide aperture. Personally I prefer a fast prime to a fast zoom, and the DA 50 1.8 and 35 2.4 can get you in the game for not much money. I survived for years with just an FA 50 1.7 for low light, and always felt I could get the images I needed.

So it all depends on what you shoot. But for me, there are few shooting situations where a 16-50 type 2.8 lens is the best choice. Just not enough range of focal length to meet my demands for flexibility. Of course others swear by them.

**EssJayEff** · 07-26-2021, 10:33 AM

I've mentioned this a few times for those undecided moments about what lens to get, so I might as well mention it again: rental lenses. Some places even offer your rental as a credit toward buying it if you try it and like it.

cxdoo · 07-26-2021, 10:44 AM

Originally posted by EssJayEff

I've mentioned this a few times for those undecided moments about what lens to get, so I might as well mention it again: rental lenses. Some places even offer your rental as a credit toward buying it if you try it and like it.

I wish something like that was an option for me. Practically all of the photo stuff I have I saw for the very first time after I bought it.
Some years ago I could at least see something Pentax in stores, now even that's gone.

Wasp · 07-26-2021, 11:00 AM - **2 Likes**

If you have to ask if you need another lens, you really do need another lens!

Two main reasons: more control over depth of field and better performance in low light.

I second the 50mm f/1.8. Get one and explore the difference between f/1.8 and f/5.6.

**MXLX** · 07-26-2021, 11:43 AM

Originally posted by cxdoo:

I wish something like that was an option for me. Practically all of the photo stuff I have I saw for the very first time after I bought it.
Some years ago I could at least see something Pentax in stores, now even that's gone.

Originally posted by EssJayEff

I've mentioned this a few times for those undecided moments about what lens to get, so I might as well mention it again: rental lenses. Some places even offer your rental as a credit toward buying it if you try it and like it.

You live in NC too: There's not a Pentax selling dealer in the state! It's probably almost as cost effective to buy and take the hit (assuming not buying new) on resale.

**RICHARD L.** · 07-26-2021, 12:03 PM - **5 Likes**

The DA 18-135 mm ED WR has become my go-to lens this summer on the K3. Good for everything and surprisingly sharp and contrasty (I always use f/11 in good light).

**tranq78** · 07-26-2021, 12:57 PM

Originally posted by RICHARD L.;5367221[B:

The DA 18-135 mm ED WR has become my go-to lens this summer on the K3. Good for everything and surprisingly sharp and contrasty (I always use f/11 in good light).[/B]

Nice pics. The DA18-135 lens lives on our 3 of our cameras in my house

I replaced the kit lens with a DA18-135 for myself and my 2 teenagers. The other lens in our 3 camera bags is the DA*50-135/f2.8.

My kids haven't discovered the world of macro photography or primes yet, but I have 50mm primes and macro lenses I can give them.

**Apet-Sure** · 07-26-2021, 02:17 PM

My K10D was given to me by a friend and came with the original version of the 18-55. SMC Pentax-DA 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 AL Reviews - DA Zoom Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database
(I had 30+ years of photography experience at that point.) I used it for a few months, and was never happy with its IQ. I did some research and ended up getting a Sigma 17-70mm DC Macro. Sigma 17-70mm F2.8-4.5 DC Macro Lens Reviews - Sigma Lenses - Pentax Lens Review Database It was waaay better in every respect IQ-wise, though a little bigger and heavier. It performs very well on my K-5IIs and KP too.

I've never used one, but the second version of the 18-55 (the AL II) looks significantly better than the original judging by the reviews here on PF. SMC Pentax-DA 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 AL II Reviews - DA Zoom Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database

tibbitts · 07-26-2021, 02:58 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by tokyoscape

We don't have to pay for a new body just to get to try a new lens.

Unfortunately if the new lens is a KAF4 some of us would.

**MXLX** · 07-26-2021, 03:58 PM

Originally posted by RICHARD L.

The DA 18-135 mm ED WR has become my go-to lens this summer on the K3. Good for everything and surprisingly sharp and contrasty (I always use f/11 in good light).

Very nice images. TBH I hadn't considered a "walkaround" lens with that much range short to long.

07-26-2021, 08:49 AM - 1 Like	#36
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	For myself, having the Tamron 17-50, DA 18-135 and DA 16-85, the Tamron is unreliable, the 18-35 I almost a specialty lens, good at what it does, not adequate for some of the things it doesn't do, and the 16-85 is the reliable good a almost everything lens. Looking at my images for this year, lots of images taken with 2.8 lenses, none taken at 2.8. I tend to wonder what 2.8 is actually for. My DA* 55 1.4 does narrow DoF much better than a 2.8 version. 2.8 is definitely not necessary for everyone. So I'd aim or our travelling kit. DA 16-85, DA 55-300 PLM and any 1.4 to 2.8 lens of your choice, which or me would be the DA55 1.4, the Rokinin 14 2.8 for astro photography), The DFA 100 2.8 macro, The FA 50 macro 2.8 or Sigma 24 2.8 (form macro photography , and or landscape, depending on what I expect to be shooting. I'd suggestive the DA 16-85 is the default (first step up after kit) lens, with others considered of you have need. But I'd also consider the 18-135, for the extra reach if you were planning a one les walking kit. Find with the 17-50 type kit lenses, you're going have a lot of lens changes. Tess would rather walk around with her Tamron 90 macro on the camera than have to deal with the limitations of her Tamron 17-50. Again it comes down to "how much futzing around do you want to do? Want fewer lens changes and more shooting In order of preference" 1. DA 18-135, 2. DA 16-85, 3. any 18-250 Shooting indoors in low light: 1. Any 1.4-2.4 prime. 2. any 2.8 16-50 zoom Landscape: 1. DA 16-85, 2. a Prime in the desired focal length General walk around lens: 1. DA 18-135 2. DA 16-85 3. any 16-50 coupled with the DA 50-135 or longer zoom. That would reflect our usage. Since we got the DA 16-85 the Tamron 17-50 has had it's use greatly diminished. It is choice between range vs 2.8, and most of our shots are at ƒ5.6 or ƒ8 so the only advantage to 2.8 is focussing in low light. For our shooting , it's a no brainer to advocate the getting the DA 16-85 as your "better than kit" lens, and then deciding what to do for wide aperture. Personally I prefer a fast prime to a fast zoom, and the DA 50 1.8 and 35 2.4 can get you in the game for not much money. I survived for years with just an FA 50 1.7 for low light, and always felt I could get the images I needed. So it all depends on what you shoot. But for me, there are few shooting situations where a 16-50 type 2.8 lens is the best choice. Just not enough range of focal length to meet my demands for flexibility. Of course others swear by them. Last edited by normhead; 07-26-2021 at 08:59 AM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Do I need to upgrade from my K50?	psoo	Pentax DSLR Discussion	81	03-31-2020 08:43 AM
"My kit it's enough!" Say it: "My kit it's enough!" Another case of lba!	zburatoru	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	76	03-08-2019 05:09 PM
Don't say Pentax "Q" in French ... "Q" = "cul" = "A--"	Jean Poitiers	Pentax Q	52	11-10-2013 06:25 AM
"kit" or "lens kit"	filorp	General Talk	12	11-07-2012 11:33 PM
To "upgrade" or not to "upgrade"	WhiteComet	Pentax DSLR Discussion	16	08-16-2008 09:56 AM

07-26-2021, 07:39 AM - 2 Likes	#31
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	I had and used the DA16-50 for many years. My experience with it was positive and when the SDM failed I converted it to screwdrive and kept going. I replaced the 16-50 with the DA16-85 as the longer focal length suited my use at the time. As noted above there is no issue with the 16-85 AF, it uses a DC motor unrelated to the SDM of the 16-50 and has been extremely reliable. One thing to keep in mind is that at f/8 and reasonable light it is difficult to tell most lenses apart. Your 'kit' lens and the DA16-50 at f/8 will not show a lot of difference. When you buy an expensive lens you are buying the ability to take photographs on the edges, in poor light, at f/2.8 or whatever. So if you always shoot in good light at f/8 do not expect a huge improvement. That said the old saying is that bodies come and go but glass is forever. I've never regretted buying good glass.

07-26-2021, 07:43 AM	#32
Lloyd_Christmas Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 458	Originally posted by bilybianca An interesting picture without perfect sharpness is much preferable over a boring depiction made for pixel peepers. Well said!

07-26-2021, 08:12 AM	#33
aslyfox Seeker of Knowledge Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Topeka, Kansas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 24,581	Originally posted by MXLX Yeah, I know there's no good answer. . . . . not sure the desire to get more gear [ GAS ] fits into Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs The 5 Levels of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs [ who cares, go for it ]

07-26-2021, 08:23 AM	#34
othar Site Supporter Join Date: May 2014 Location: Linz Photos: Albums Posts: 3,098	Originally posted by Madaboutpix Can you take cool photos with your kitzoom? Yeah, by all means you can, but do yourself the favour at some point to explore how much more your camera can do with real glass. While I agree that one shouldn't limit oneself to using one lens alone (why bother buying a DSLR for that ), especially not the 18-55mm kit lens, I don't necessarily see a reason to permanently get rid of it either. I have a lot of lenses for many different purposes: a macro lens for flowers and insects, fast primes for subjects isolation or low light situations, various tele lenses for animals or landscapes, a F 35-70mm lens as walk-around lens when hiking/mountaineering (the missing wide angle capabilities beeing an advantage and no hindrance in my opinion),... Nervertheless there is still an occasional purpose for my DAL 18-55mm WR lens: it is not a fast lens, but light and small while offering a reasonable zoom range; could it be sharper? - yes, but it isn't that terrible as some paint it to be either, furthermore is not every photograph intended to be a piece of art and/or printed in a large format.

07-26-2021, 08:46 AM	#35
35mmfilmfan Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Norfolk, UK Posts: 4,323	Define 'Need' ! Do you want to 'upgrade' ? Yes Do you need to 'upgrade' to improve your images ? Read replies above Do you need to 'upgrade' to give you pleasure, satisfaction and (possibly) a certain amount of 'street cred' ? I think this is a 'Yes' as well. FWIW, although I have several 18-55 lenses, my usual day kit is Sigma 10-20, Pentax 18-135, Sigma 105mm macro and Pentax 55-300. No desire to upgrade any of these - as yet !

07-26-2021, 10:33 AM	#37
EssJayEff Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: near Saxapahaw, NC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 966	I've mentioned this a few times for those undecided moments about what lens to get, so I might as well mention it again: rental lenses. Some places even offer your rental as a credit toward buying it if you try it and like it.

07-26-2021, 10:44 AM	#38
cxdoo Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Limassol, Cyprus Posts: 1,150	Originally posted by EssJayEff I've mentioned this a few times for those undecided moments about what lens to get, so I might as well mention it again: rental lenses. Some places even offer your rental as a credit toward buying it if you try it and like it. I wish something like that was an option for me. Practically all of the photo stuff I have I saw for the very first time after I bought it. Some years ago I could at least see something Pentax in stores, now even that's gone.

07-26-2021, 11:00 AM - 2 Likes	#39
Wasp Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: Pretoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,659	If you have to ask if you need another lens, you really do need another lens! Two main reasons: more control over depth of field and better performance in low light. I second the 50mm f/1.8. Get one and explore the difference between f/1.8 and f/5.6.

07-26-2021, 11:43 AM	#40
MXLX Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: Western NC Photos: Albums Posts: 834 Original Poster	Originally posted by cxdoo: I wish something like that was an option for me. Practically all of the photo stuff I have I saw for the very first time after I bought it. Some years ago I could at least see something Pentax in stores, now even that's gone. Originally posted by EssJayEff I've mentioned this a few times for those undecided moments about what lens to get, so I might as well mention it again: rental lenses. Some places even offer your rental as a credit toward buying it if you try it and like it. You live in NC too: There's not a Pentax selling dealer in the state! It's probably almost as cost effective to buy and take the hit (assuming not buying new) on resale.

07-26-2021, 12:03 PM - 5 Likes	#41
RICHARD L. Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Quebec City, Quebec Posts: 6,573	The DA 18-135 mm ED WR has become my go-to lens this summer on the K3. Good for everything and surprisingly sharp and contrasty (I always use f/11 in good light).

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

07-26-2021, 12:57 PM	#42
tranq78 Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,005	Originally posted by RICHARD L.;5367221[B: The DA 18-135 mm ED WR has become my go-to lens this summer on the K3. Good for everything and surprisingly sharp and contrasty (I always use f/11 in good light).[/B] Nice pics. The DA18-135 lens lives on our 3 of our cameras in my house I replaced the kit lens with a DA18-135 for myself and my 2 teenagers. The other lens in our 3 camera bags is the DA*50-135/f2.8. My kids haven't discovered the world of macro photography or primes yet, but I have 50mm primes and macro lenses I can give them.

07-26-2021, 02:17 PM	#43
Apet-Sure Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Goldsboro North Carolina Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,861	My K10D was given to me by a friend and came with the original version of the 18-55. SMC Pentax-DA 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 AL Reviews - DA Zoom Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database (I had 30+ years of photography experience at that point.) I used it for a few months, and was never happy with its IQ. I did some research and ended up getting a Sigma 17-70mm DC Macro. Sigma 17-70mm F2.8-4.5 DC Macro Lens Reviews - Sigma Lenses - Pentax Lens Review Database It was waaay better in every respect IQ-wise, though a little bigger and heavier. It performs very well on my K-5IIs and KP too. I've never used one, but the second version of the 18-55 (the AL II) looks significantly better than the original judging by the reviews here on PF. SMC Pentax-DA 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 AL II Reviews - DA Zoom Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database

07-26-2021, 02:58 PM - 1 Like	#44
tibbitts Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Oklahoma USA Posts: 2,193	Originally posted by tokyoscape We don't have to pay for a new body just to get to try a new lens. Unfortunately if the new lens is a KAF4 some of us would.

07-26-2021, 03:58 PM	#45
MXLX Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: Western NC Photos: Albums Posts: 834 Original Poster	Originally posted by RICHARD L. The DA 18-135 mm ED WR has become my go-to lens this summer on the K3. Good for everything and surprisingly sharp and contrasty (I always use f/11 in good light). Very nice images. TBH I hadn't considered a "walkaround" lens with that much range short to long.

Do I *need* to upgrade from the "kit" lens?

Do I need to upgrade from the "kit" lens?