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10-16-2021, 03:07 PM - 5 Likes   #1
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DFA 21 Limited designers' discussion

Surprised no one has started a thread on this: A message from the development team

I found it quite an interesting read, with more specifics about the design process of this Limited lens---and back-handedly explains why it took so long.


Last edited by Sandy Hancock; 08-11-2022 at 07:19 PM. Reason: URL edited as it has changed slightly
10-16-2021, 03:38 PM - 4 Likes   #2
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The way the design process is described reminds me of Grand Seiko. The two brands' philosophies are quite similar, and both brands are highly respected by a small group of enthusiasts in their respective spaces (cameras / watches) while having reputations for certain perceived chronic flaws that are charming or manageable for some but dealbreakers or reasons not to buy for others.

The terms "beauty" and "nature" are frequently used to describe both the process of crafting the products and the resulting product itself.

Both are also backed by huge Japanese companies who I hope will sustain the brands for the long term in very competitive markets by being somewhat different, but successfully.

Oddly enough, when I consider some of the common issues people more familiar with Swiss brands have with Grand Seiko - thickness, too many "Limited Editions", rising prices / worsening value for money compared to the past - it's hard to not notice some similarities with how Pentax is compared against Canon/Nikon/Sony.
10-16-2021, 03:56 PM   #3
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Thank you for pointing to the thread..Nice reading IMHO.

It is refreshing to see a new prime lens, that continues (IMHO) the FA Limited series. Great.
10-16-2021, 03:58 PM - 2 Likes   #4
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I love these Pentax Special Sites and their descriptions of the design process. There's a real human touch.

One of the highlights for me: "Excessive compensation, however, resulted in boring, undistinguished images."

- Craig

10-16-2021, 06:14 PM   #5
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It looks like it will be a very nice lens.
10-16-2021, 08:30 PM   #6
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A very interesting and informative read! Highly recommended. Now the problem is that I really want this lens to use with my other Limiteds. It appears that once again I am suffering from GAS
10-16-2021, 08:52 PM - 1 Like   #7
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This lens will be a worthy addition to the Three Amigos. Anybody want to buy a rarely used 15-30 f2.8?

10-16-2021, 10:05 PM   #8
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I started my journey 5 years ago shooting almost everything with k50 and the DA 21mm. I don't know what's the thing about it but just like the sample images, I liked to shoot awfully closely focused subjects with it. Seeing the photo of the cat made me feel right at home.

I've since moved on to k-1 and DFA* 50mm, and my personal three amigos would be 77mm 50mm and 21mm.
10-16-2021, 10:32 PM - 1 Like   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Chocobo Quote
I started my journey 5 years ago shooting almost everything with k50 and the DA 21mm. I don't know what's the thing about it but just like the sample images, I liked to shoot awfully closely focused subjects with it. Seeing the photo of the cat made me feel right at home.

I've since moved on to k-1 and DFA* 50mm, and my personal three amigos would be 77mm 50mm and 21mm.
The DFA* 50mm f1.4 is the best lens that Pentax has ever produced!
10-16-2021, 11:39 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ray Cox Quote
Now the problem is that I really want this lens to use with my other Limiteds. It appears that once again I am suffering from GAS
Limited primes can be addictive, I know it for having been trapping into the DA ltd. In my apsc times, after I purchased the DA 70 ltd and DA 40 ltd, I couldn't resist buying the 21 ltd, the 15 ltd, and the DA 35 ltd. My least used was the DA 21 (on apsc), my most used where the DA 70, DA 40 (later replaced by the DA 35 macro) and the DA 15 ltd. I still regret having sold the DA 35 macro ltd for not covering the FF image circle, I loved using that lens. Even though I dislike the optical qualities of the DA 15, I still liked the build quality and unique field of view. This D-FA 21 ltd looks much better than the DA 15 ltd, optically. I hope Ricoh won't make a series of D-FA limited after the D-FA 21, otherwise I fear for my bank account.

---------- Post added 17-10-21 at 08:43 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by texandrews Quote
DFA 21 Limited designers' discussion
That's great marketing. I don't know [many] other companies engaging their technical staff to recount their journey of product creation.
10-17-2021, 12:01 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by David Quote
This lens will be a worthy addition to the Three Amigos. Anybody want to buy a rarely used 15-30 f2.8?
My 15-30 gets plenty of use. The new DFA 21 Limited will make me rethink my travel kit though. Let me analyse the situation.

On my last international trip pre-Covid (Tenerife and Czechia), I took the K1 and four lenses. The respective usages were: DFA*70-200 - 859; DFA 28-105 - 694; DFA 15-30 - 294; DFA* 50 - 228. Of the shots with the 15-30, 116 were at 15mm, 61 were 19mm-23mm, and 64 were 30mm. Those at 30mm could have been taken with the 28-105 instead. The shots at 15mm were mostly architecture.

So, could I just replace the 15-30 with the DFA 21? Well, no, not for the way I use wide-angle. People in streets perhaps, not architecture per se. Hmm ... looks like I might be packing an extra lens.
10-17-2021, 12:07 AM - 1 Like   #12
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Nice explanation on how to design a particular lens. I particularly liked the explanation on the use of the blurred, with the presentation of two comparative images between a conventional 20mm and the 21mm limited.
10-17-2021, 12:57 AM - 1 Like   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
That's great marketing. I don't know [many] other companies engaging their technical staff to recount their journey of product creation.
Fuji does much the same but not quite as in depth. I've come across videos of their various engineers talking about a newly released lens. I think they do this for all their recent lenses. Interestingly I think they also talk about keeping some spherical aberration for some lens if I remember correctly.

QuoteOriginally posted by Paul the Sunman Quote
On my last international trip pre-Covid (Tenerife and Czechia), I took the K1 and four lenses. The respective usages were:
Personally I think this is the wrong, but common, way of thinking about focal lengths. *Primes make you find photos for that field of view.* It's a big part of why I like primes. With a lens mounted you see the world through that lens. It's not that you have an inherent need for those type shots or would naturally pick them from an infinite range of focal lengths. I started with zooms but once I got a prime I immediately saw that I took better and more creative photos. Of course there are lenses just not suitable for what you do but I don't think statistics are a good way of understanding the issue.
10-17-2021, 01:03 AM   #14
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Pentax has done well to design this lens in the style of the FA Ltds. It will complement the other lenses' slim form factor, and bring comparably strong IQ to the series. Particularly attractive is getting an ultra-wide FF lens without a huge front element (possibly the same 58mm filter thread as the FA 31) to make it easy to bag the lens compared to say the FA 20. And if I ever need to go even wider, I only have to worry about getting the bag space for a 14mm prime or the DFA 15-30, a capability for a limited number of settings.
10-17-2021, 01:12 AM   #15
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The 21 is the first DFA Ltd - there is more to come. The whole Ltd line of lenses is exceptional by design and image drawing capabilities. The DFA* line has different characteristics and as much as I like my 50/85, the ltds have that different look. Hard to mix both lens lines. The new 21 fits into both lineups as the only real wide angle, but ultimately you need (to know, buy, own) both, ltds and DFA*.
As far as I know, the FA*85 was closely related to the 77ltd. The DFA* are not closely related to ltds or vice versa. We have two different and almost unrelated lines of glass (evolving) for Pentax these days.
Ultimately, all ltds are FF lenses. Useable on apsc but made for FF. 21 is a really nice wide angle, not a 35 mm angle of view substitute for apsc. The 31 is a wide angle, not an apsc normal lens…
Similar stories were written for Leica glass. Let’s see what is next. 21/31/43/77 cover the typical fixed focal length Pentax range… will the re-introduce 100/105/135 mm? The DFA* line is likely to see a 1.4/35… this roadmap idea will keep us busy for quite some time.
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