FF Pancake

**Lowell Goudge** · 12-27-2021, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by kypfer

The problem on a full-frame SLR or DSLR is the mirror, so a 28mm needs to effectively have extra optics (retro-focus design) so's it can clear the mirror, which makes it a relatively bulky solution.
The widest you're likely to find in a "pancake" format is a 40mm. My DA 40mm XS seems to give full coverage in a Pentax film camera viewfinder and some reports indicate it is suitable for full-frame, but I've not actually tried it.

Just to be clear, it is not a question of full frame or not, pancake lenses become impractical for any SLR below about 40mm because of the registration distance of all SLRS I which are in excess of the focal length.

kypfer · 12-27-2021, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by Lowell Goudge

Just to be clear, it is not a question of full frame or not, pancake lenses become impractical for any SLR below about 40mm because of the registration distance of all SLRS I which are in excess of the focal length.

Absolutely … but the thread title is "FF Pancake" so it seemed appropriate to reference that

wadge22 · 12-28-2021, 10:23 AM

I forgot to remember it earlier, but Tamron Adaptall-2 02B 28/2.5 is very compact, has a half a stop faster aperture than you are asking for, and is fairly affordable (especially if you find it with the right adapter, or already have one). With a PK/A adapter, it will function as an A lens, which is better than quite a few of these other pancake (adjacent) options.

zapp · 12-28-2021, 11:16 AM

All (current) k-mount lenses will stay clear of ff mirrors.
Pancake and large aperture wide angle don’t together that well, as discussed above.The 40s pancake design were fashionable in the 80s. Olympus, Minolta, Pentax, … all made them. DA series of lenses is small and compact, but not large aperture. This would ei5her call for a DFA Ltd or DFA*. Ltds are still compact, * are Not.

kypfer · 12-28-2021, 03:13 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by wadge22

I forgot to remember it earlier, but Tamron Adaptall-2 02B 28/2.5 is very compact, has a half a stop faster aperture than you are asking for, and is fairly affordable (especially if you find it with the right adapter, or already have one). With a PK/A adapter, it will function as an A lens, which is better than quite a few of these other pancake (adjacent) options.

I wouldn't have considered the Tamron to be "compact", it's 3mm longer and 10% heavier than my Takumar-A 28mm, which is 5mm longer and similarly heavier than my SMC Pentax-M 28mm

The Tamron, nevertheless, is a very fine lens and the extra half stop may be useful on occasion. The PKA Adaptall adaptors do unfortunately command quite a premium price these days

wadge22 · 12-28-2021, 06:02 PM

Originally posted by kypfer

I wouldn't have considered the Tamron to be "compact"

Fair enough. I use a K1, my fast 50 is DFA*50, so my sense of scale is probably skewed.
But no, it is not, by any means, a pancake. I was probably reaching at least a bit with that one.

**TwoUptons** · 12-28-2021, 06:39 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by wadge22

Fair enough. I use a K1, my fast 50 is DFA*50, so my sense of scale is probably skewed.
But no, it is not, by any means, a pancake. I was probably reaching at least a bit with that one.

Compared to the DFA*50, most of the manual focus 50mm Pentax lenses (apart from the macros) will look like pancakes

And the A50mm f2.0 really is pretty small, yet does auto exposure. The A50mm f1.7 isn't much bigger...

-Eric

**tungal** · 12-31-2021, 10:57 AM

Buy the Ricoh GR III - it's almost the price of a lens and for walking around the FF is obsolete (if not to say an obstacle; for serious stuff I have K-1)

**Fontan** · 01-01-2022, 04:39 PM

Originally posted by tungal

Buy the Ricoh GR III - it's almost the price of a lens and for walking around the FF is obsolete (if not to say an obstacle; for serious stuff I have K-1)

I have a GR II. If GR comes out with a FF version (I doubt it) - I would jump on that. But you are right though. For the price of a fancy pancake you can probably a GR III. I saw on another thread that K3iii may come out with a monochrome model. If they opt to use that sensor for GR3m, I may go for that even though it is APS-C. The quest for such a pancake is for a smaller set up.

I still shoot a fair amount with my 645D. So - when I am walking around with something other than my D, as I get older I find myself wishing for lighter and smaller set up. I think that the output of K1 is fantastic and I am still very satisfied with it despite becoming a bit outdated from specs standpoint. So if I can get K1 to be as small as it can possibly be, then I just may consider that option than buying a mirrorless, for example.

The best camera is the one you have on you. The quality of cell phone pics is improving so rapidly that the entire landscape is changing very fast.

**Lowell Goudge** · 01-01-2022, 07:20 PM

Isn’t there a Takumar 17mm F11Fisheye that is pretty much a pancake
Fish-Eye-Takumar 17mm F11 Reviews - M42 Screwmount Extreme Wide-Angle Primes - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database

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12-27-2021, 02:56 PM	#31
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,888	Originally posted by kypfer The problem on a full-frame SLR or DSLR is the mirror, so a 28mm needs to effectively have extra optics (retro-focus design) so's it can clear the mirror, which makes it a relatively bulky solution. The widest you're likely to find in a "pancake" format is a 40mm. My DA 40mm XS seems to give full coverage in a Pentax film camera viewfinder and some reports indicate it is suitable for full-frame, but I've not actually tried it. Just to be clear, it is not a question of full frame or not, pancake lenses become impractical for any SLR below about 40mm because of the registration distance of all SLRS I which are in excess of the focal length.

12-27-2021, 03:09 PM	#32
kypfer Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Jersey C.I. Posts: 3,593	Originally posted by Lowell Goudge Just to be clear, it is not a question of full frame or not, pancake lenses become impractical for any SLR below about 40mm because of the registration distance of all SLRS I which are in excess of the focal length. Absolutely … but the thread title is "FF Pancake" so it seemed appropriate to reference that

12-28-2021, 10:23 AM	#33
wadge22 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: NE Ohio Photos: Albums Posts: 897	I forgot to remember it earlier, but Tamron Adaptall-2 02B 28/2.5 is very compact, has a half a stop faster aperture than you are asking for, and is fairly affordable (especially if you find it with the right adapter, or already have one). With a PK/A adapter, it will function as an A lens, which is better than quite a few of these other pancake (adjacent) options.

12-28-2021, 11:16 AM	#34
zapp Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,385	All (current) k-mount lenses will stay clear of ff mirrors. Pancake and large aperture wide angle don’t together that well, as discussed above.The 40s pancake design were fashionable in the 80s. Olympus, Minolta, Pentax, … all made them. DA series of lenses is small and compact, but not large aperture. This would ei5her call for a DFA Ltd or DFA. Ltds are still compact, are Not.

12-28-2021, 03:13 PM - 1 Like	#35
kypfer Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Jersey C.I. Posts: 3,593	Originally posted by wadge22 I forgot to remember it earlier, but Tamron Adaptall-2 02B 28/2.5 is very compact, has a half a stop faster aperture than you are asking for, and is fairly affordable (especially if you find it with the right adapter, or already have one). With a PK/A adapter, it will function as an A lens, which is better than quite a few of these other pancake (adjacent) options. I wouldn't have considered the Tamron to be "compact", it's 3mm longer and 10% heavier than my Takumar-A 28mm, which is 5mm longer and similarly heavier than my SMC Pentax-M 28mm The Tamron, nevertheless, is a very fine lens and the extra half stop may be useful on occasion. The PKA Adaptall adaptors do unfortunately command quite a premium price these days

12-28-2021, 06:02 PM	#36
wadge22 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: NE Ohio Photos: Albums Posts: 897	Originally posted by kypfer I wouldn't have considered the Tamron to be "compact" Fair enough. I use a K1, my fast 50 is DFA*50, so my sense of scale is probably skewed. But no, it is not, by any means, a pancake. I was probably reaching at least a bit with that one.

12-28-2021, 06:39 PM - 1 Like	#37
TwoUptons Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 4,214	Originally posted by wadge22 Fair enough. I use a K1, my fast 50 is DFA50, so my sense of scale is probably skewed. But no, it is not, by any means, a pancake. I was probably reaching at least a bit with that one. Compared to the DFA50, most of the manual focus 50mm Pentax lenses (apart from the macros) will look like pancakes And the A50mm f2.0 really is pretty small, yet does auto exposure. The A50mm f1.7 isn't much bigger... -Eric

12-31-2021, 10:57 AM	#38
tungal Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery Posts: 398	Buy the Ricoh GR III - it's almost the price of a lens and for walking around the FF is obsolete (if not to say an obstacle; for serious stuff I have K-1)

01-01-2022, 04:39 PM	#39
Fontan Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: 5th floor Posts: 1,610 Original Poster	Originally posted by tungal Buy the Ricoh GR III - it's almost the price of a lens and for walking around the FF is obsolete (if not to say an obstacle; for serious stuff I have K-1) I have a GR II. If GR comes out with a FF version (I doubt it) - I would jump on that. But you are right though. For the price of a fancy pancake you can probably a GR III. I saw on another thread that K3iii may come out with a monochrome model. If they opt to use that sensor for GR3m, I may go for that even though it is APS-C. The quest for such a pancake is for a smaller set up. I still shoot a fair amount with my 645D. So - when I am walking around with something other than my D, as I get older I find myself wishing for lighter and smaller set up. I think that the output of K1 is fantastic and I am still very satisfied with it despite becoming a bit outdated from specs standpoint. So if I can get K1 to be as small as it can possibly be, then I just may consider that option than buying a mirrorless, for example. The best camera is the one you have on you. The quality of cell phone pics is improving so rapidly that the entire landscape is changing very fast.

01-01-2022, 07:20 PM	#40
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,888	Isn’t there a Takumar 17mm F11Fisheye that is pretty much a pancake Fish-Eye-Takumar 17mm F11 Reviews - M42 Screwmount Extreme Wide-Angle Primes - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database