Petapixel reviews Pentax D-FA 21mm f/2.4

biz-engineer · 01-20-2022, 08:03 AM

Originally posted by RobA_Oz

No doubt an upgraded sensor would further enhance its abilities, and similarly for the AF, but it isn’t a wildlife or sports lens and the existing camera body/lens combination produces some impressive photos.

At the moment, every time I look at Z7II images or A7RIV images, I get the feeling that image quality is superior to the Pentax K1. The K-1 image quality is good, but it's K-5 noise level vs ISO, noise already visible at ISO200 and ISO400 (full size). K3III image quality is state of the art, very slick, immediately visible in images, so the K3III is almost a better camera than the K1 overall, because IQ is about the same but K3III is a lot faster. I can imagine K3 III sensor tech x 1.5 larger, would make the D-FA lenses shine even more.

**luftfluss** · 01-20-2022, 08:30 AM

Originally posted by biz-engineer

At the moment, every time I look at Z7II images or A7RIV images, I get the feeling that image quality is superior to the Pentax K1. The K-1 image quality is good, but it's K-5 noise level vs ISO, noise already visible at ISO200 and ISO400 (full size). K3III image quality is state of the art, very slick, immediately visible in images, so the K3III is almost a better camera than the K1 overall, because IQ is about the same but K3III is a lot faster. I can imagine K3 III sensor tech x 1.5 larger, would make the D-FA lenses shine even more.

I'm curious about the Z7 II vs K-1. Other than capturing a bit more detail, what makes the Z7 II have superior image quality? ISO performance between the two cameras seems pretty similar (according to DPR comparison), but does the Z7 II have more dynamic range, less false color or something?

**iheiramo** · 01-20-2022, 08:52 AM - **11 Likes**

When Pentax makes lenses before new camera, they complain for lack of camera. If Pentax makes camera first, they complain about lack of lenses. Pentax just can't win

repaap · 01-20-2022, 09:17 AM

Originally posted by iheiramo

When Pentax makes lenses before new camera, they complain for lack of camera. If Pentax makes camera first, they complain about lack of lenses. Pentax just can't win

Yeah,

Same old thing for everything...

I think that Pentax has made a long run making premium(many seems to not be happy about that either, althou it is needed, but 'they'(me included) can't afford -> bad thing) lenses to get things up to date and they have done excellent work so far with new gen. And we want more! Also that new K-1

**luftfluss** · 01-20-2022, 09:18 AM

Originally posted by iheiramo

When Pentax makes lenses before new camera, they complain for lack of camera. If Pentax makes camera first, they complain about lack of lenses. Pentax just can't win

Pentax could "win" this battle by having faster product cycles.

Of course, it's possible they lose the war this way.

aaacb · 01-20-2022, 09:30 AM - **1 Like**

Good thing the reviewer didn't randomly pick spot metering and complain about inaccurate metering...

biz-engineer · 01-20-2022, 10:14 AM

Originally posted by luftfluss

Other than capturing a bit more detail, what makes the Z7 II have superior image quality?

The picture out of Z7II just look amazing, and especially super smooth even when not at base ISO. I'm been looking at many Nikon images, they really shine. Ithink it comes from BSI + dual gain (1 stop gain at higher ISOs + better quantum efficiency from BSI. See the improvement between the K3 and K3 III? Well, it's the same image quality improvement between a Pentax K1 and full frame competition.

**luftfluss** · 01-20-2022, 10:35 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by biz-engineer

The picture out of Z7II just look amazing, and especially super smooth even when not at base ISO. I'm been looking at many Nikon images, they really shine. Ithink it comes from BSI + dual gain (1 stop gain at higher ISOs + better quantum efficiency from BSI. See the improvement between the K3 and K3 III? Well, it's the same image quality improvement between a Pentax K1 and full frame competition.

That is interesting. The Z7II review on DPR has both cameras pretty similar at ISO 6400...

Maybe better processing by the Nikon shooters? Or is there something I'm missing?

nonpigliounoshoot · 01-20-2022, 10:59 AM

Originally posted by repaap

Yeah,

Same old thing for everything...

I think that Pentax has made a long run making premium(many seems to not be happy about that either, althou it is needed, but 'they'(me included) can't afford -> bad thing) lenses to get things up to date and they have done excellent work so far with new gen. And we want more! Also that new K-1

best shoot..

biz-engineer · 01-20-2022, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by luftfluss

That is interesting. The Z7II review on DPR has both cameras pretty similar at ISO 6400...

Similar yes. We don't need anything.

**luftfluss** · 01-20-2022, 11:58 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by biz-engineer

Similar yes. We don't need anything.

I apologize if I hit a sore spot. Nikon Z system looks great, was just curious for more impressions.

**Belnan** · 01-20-2022, 01:31 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by biz-engineer

The problem isn't the D-FA 21 limited, the problem is that there is no Pentax K1 mark III to use that lens to its potential, unfortunately.

Options would be nice.

biz-engineer · 01-20-2022, 01:40 PM

Originally posted by luftfluss

I apologize if I hit a sore spot. Nikon Z system looks great, was just curious for more impressions.

The facts are minor improvements between generations of cameras, and minor improvements between formats. From micro4:3 to apsc it's a minor improvement (less than a stop), from apsc to ff it's a stop of improvement (ignoring things like depth of field or shutter speed), from full frame to medium format crop it's a minor improvement. Visually, or in print, the added minor improvement turn into significantly better looking images. I was comparing the GFX100 to Pentax K1, the difference pops, and still the difference between K1 and Z7ii is small, the difference between Z7ii and A7RIV is small and the difference between A7RIV and GFX100 is small and yet K1 print at 300ppi is 60x40cm, GFX100 print at 300ppi is almost twice the size (approx 115x80 cm).

ChristianRock · 01-20-2022, 01:54 PM

Originally posted by biz-engineer

The picture out of Z7II just look amazing, and especially super smooth even when not at base ISO. I'm been looking at many Nikon images, they really shine. Ithink it comes from BSI + dual gain (1 stop gain at higher ISOs + better quantum efficiency from BSI. See the improvement between the K3 and K3 III? Well, it's the same image quality improvement between a Pentax K1 and full frame competition.

BSI has no effect on base ISO as far as I know.

I'm reading your comments as "the grass is greener on the other side". I don't think the Z7II has better images (it's mostly down to the lenses at this level, anyway, other than high ISO performance, but that doesn't seem to be what you are talking about since you mention base ISO).

ChristianRock · 01-20-2022, 01:57 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by biz-engineer

The facts are minor improvements between generations of cameras, and minor improvements between formats. From micro4:3 to apsc it's a minor improvement (less than a stop), from apsc to ff it's a stop of improvement (ignoring things like depth of field or shutter speed), from full frame to medium format crop it's a minor improvement. Visually, or in print, the added minor improvement turn into significantly better looking images. I was comparing the GFX100 to Pentax K1, the difference pops, and still the difference between K1 and Z7ii is small, the difference between Z7ii and A7RIV is small and the difference between A7RIV and GFX100 is small and yet K1 print at 300ppi is 60x40cm, GFX100 print at 300ppi is almost twice the size (approx 115x80 cm).

But how can you tell how much of what you are seeing is the camera, and how much is lenses, better light/better photographer, and the photographer's processing?

01-20-2022, 11:23 AM	#25
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,231	Originally posted by luftfluss That is interesting. The Z7II review on DPR has both cameras pretty similar at ISO 6400... Similar yes. We don't need anything. Last edited by biz-engineer; 01-20-2022 at 11:29 AM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
PetaPixel K-3 Mark III Review	Kobie	Pentax K-3 III	44	08-09-2021 02:44 PM
Petapixel K-3 Mark III Review	bladerunner6	Pentax News and Rumors	2	07-26-2021 11:35 AM
Petapixel best compact dslr	Belnan	Pentax K-3 III	6	04-30-2021 06:55 AM
PetaPixel article - "Why Pentax is Making the Right Call in Sticking with DSLRs"	Jean Poitiers	Pentax DSLR Discussion	116	07-30-2020 02:59 PM
Review of the new 85mm at PetaPixel	bladerunner6	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	6	07-28-2020 01:07 AM

01-20-2022, 08:03 AM	#16
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,231	Originally posted by RobA_Oz No doubt an upgraded sensor would further enhance its abilities, and similarly for the AF, but it isn’t a wildlife or sports lens and the existing camera body/lens combination produces some impressive photos. At the moment, every time I look at Z7II images or A7RIV images, I get the feeling that image quality is superior to the Pentax K1. The K-1 image quality is good, but it's K-5 noise level vs ISO, noise already visible at ISO200 and ISO400 (full size). K3III image quality is state of the art, very slick, immediately visible in images, so the K3III is almost a better camera than the K1 overall, because IQ is about the same but K3III is a lot faster. I can imagine K3 III sensor tech x 1.5 larger, would make the D-FA lenses shine even more.

01-20-2022, 08:30 AM	#17
luftfluss Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,619	Originally posted by biz-engineer At the moment, every time I look at Z7II images or A7RIV images, I get the feeling that image quality is superior to the Pentax K1. The K-1 image quality is good, but it's K-5 noise level vs ISO, noise already visible at ISO200 and ISO400 (full size). K3III image quality is state of the art, very slick, immediately visible in images, so the K3III is almost a better camera than the K1 overall, because IQ is about the same but K3III is a lot faster. I can imagine K3 III sensor tech x 1.5 larger, would make the D-FA lenses shine even more. I'm curious about the Z7 II vs K-1. Other than capturing a bit more detail, what makes the Z7 II have superior image quality? ISO performance between the two cameras seems pretty similar (according to DPR comparison), but does the Z7 II have more dynamic range, less false color or something?

01-20-2022, 08:52 AM - 11 Likes	#18
iheiramo Unoriginal Poster Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Espoo Photos: Albums Posts: 3,182	When Pentax makes lenses before new camera, they complain for lack of camera. If Pentax makes camera first, they complain about lack of lenses. Pentax just can't win

01-20-2022, 09:17 AM	#19
repaap Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2010 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,242	Originally posted by iheiramo When Pentax makes lenses before new camera, they complain for lack of camera. If Pentax makes camera first, they complain about lack of lenses. Pentax just can't win Yeah, Same old thing for everything... I think that Pentax has made a long run making premium(many seems to not be happy about that either, althou it is needed, but 'they'(me included) can't afford -> bad thing) lenses to get things up to date and they have done excellent work so far with new gen. And we want more! Also that new K-1

01-20-2022, 09:18 AM	#20
luftfluss Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,619	Originally posted by iheiramo When Pentax makes lenses before new camera, they complain for lack of camera. If Pentax makes camera first, they complain about lack of lenses. Pentax just can't win Pentax could "win" this battle by having faster product cycles. Of course, it's possible they lose the war this way.

01-20-2022, 09:30 AM - 1 Like	#21
aaacb Pentaxian Join Date: May 2016 Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,724	Good thing the reviewer didn't randomly pick spot metering and complain about inaccurate metering...

01-20-2022, 10:14 AM	#22
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,231	Originally posted by luftfluss Other than capturing a bit more detail, what makes the Z7 II have superior image quality? The picture out of Z7II just look amazing, and especially super smooth even when not at base ISO. I'm been looking at many Nikon images, they really shine. Ithink it comes from BSI + dual gain (1 stop gain at higher ISOs + better quantum efficiency from BSI. See the improvement between the K3 and K3 III? Well, it's the same image quality improvement between a Pentax K1 and full frame competition.

01-20-2022, 10:35 AM - 1 Like	#23
luftfluss Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,619	Originally posted by biz-engineer The picture out of Z7II just look amazing, and especially super smooth even when not at base ISO. I'm been looking at many Nikon images, they really shine. Ithink it comes from BSI + dual gain (1 stop gain at higher ISOs + better quantum efficiency from BSI. See the improvement between the K3 and K3 III? Well, it's the same image quality improvement between a Pentax K1 and full frame competition. That is interesting. The Z7II review on DPR has both cameras pretty similar at ISO 6400... Maybe better processing by the Nikon shooters? Or is there something I'm missing?

01-20-2022, 10:59 AM	#24
nonpigliounoshoot Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2019 Posts: 735	Originally posted by repaap Yeah, Same old thing for everything... I think that Pentax has made a long run making premium(many seems to not be happy about that either, althou it is needed, but 'they'(me included) can't afford -> bad thing) lenses to get things up to date and they have done excellent work so far with new gen. And we want more! Also that new K-1 best shoot..

01-20-2022, 11:58 AM - 1 Like	#26
luftfluss Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,619	Originally posted by biz-engineer Similar yes. We don't need anything. I apologize if I hit a sore spot. Nikon Z system looks great, was just curious for more impressions.

01-20-2022, 01:31 PM - 1 Like	#27
Belnan Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Nova Scotia Photos: Albums Posts: 1,090	Originally posted by biz-engineer The problem isn't the D-FA 21 limited, the problem is that there is no Pentax K1 mark III to use that lens to its potential, unfortunately. Options would be nice.

01-20-2022, 01:40 PM	#28
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,231	Originally posted by luftfluss I apologize if I hit a sore spot. Nikon Z system looks great, was just curious for more impressions. The facts are minor improvements between generations of cameras, and minor improvements between formats. From micro4:3 to apsc it's a minor improvement (less than a stop), from apsc to ff it's a stop of improvement (ignoring things like depth of field or shutter speed), from full frame to medium format crop it's a minor improvement. Visually, or in print, the added minor improvement turn into significantly better looking images. I was comparing the GFX100 to Pentax K1, the difference pops, and still the difference between K1 and Z7ii is small, the difference between Z7ii and A7RIV is small and the difference between A7RIV and GFX100 is small and yet K1 print at 300ppi is 60x40cm, GFX100 print at 300ppi is almost twice the size (approx 115x80 cm).

01-20-2022, 01:54 PM	#29
ChristianRock Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: People's Republic of America Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,910	Originally posted by biz-engineer The picture out of Z7II just look amazing, and especially super smooth even when not at base ISO. I'm been looking at many Nikon images, they really shine. Ithink it comes from BSI + dual gain (1 stop gain at higher ISOs + better quantum efficiency from BSI. See the improvement between the K3 and K3 III? Well, it's the same image quality improvement between a Pentax K1 and full frame competition. BSI has no effect on base ISO as far as I know. I'm reading your comments as "the grass is greener on the other side". I don't think the Z7II has better images (it's mostly down to the lenses at this level, anyway, other than high ISO performance, but that doesn't seem to be what you are talking about since you mention base ISO).

01-20-2022, 01:57 PM - 1 Like	#30
ChristianRock Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: People's Republic of America Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,910	Originally posted by biz-engineer The facts are minor improvements between generations of cameras, and minor improvements between formats. From micro4:3 to apsc it's a minor improvement (less than a stop), from apsc to ff it's a stop of improvement (ignoring things like depth of field or shutter speed), from full frame to medium format crop it's a minor improvement. Visually, or in print, the added minor improvement turn into significantly better looking images. I was comparing the GFX100 to Pentax K1, the difference pops, and still the difference between K1 and Z7ii is small, the difference between Z7ii and A7RIV is small and the difference between A7RIV and GFX100 is small and yet K1 print at 300ppi is 60x40cm, GFX100 print at 300ppi is almost twice the size (approx 115x80 cm). But how can you tell how much of what you are seeing is the camera, and how much is lenses, better light/better photographer, and the photographer's processing?