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02-05-2022, 12:12 AM - 2 Likes   #1
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HD Pentax DA 1.4x with the D-FA 150-450

This is about the recent review about using the HD DA TC with the 150-450

Testing the HD Pentax-DA 1.4x AW AF with the D FA 150-450mm - Review Announcements | PentaxForums.com

I've use that K1+TC+150-450 combo back in 2017 and 2018, shot something like 5000 bird images with it.
When I archived images during pandemic lock-down, I reviewed images and decided to delete them all.
Lots of vignetting and not sharp => delete.

It would be wise if Ricoh should offer a FF frame version of that TC, especially designed to work well with the DFA70-200 2.8 and the DFA150-450. To me it makes no sense to cripple the performance of a premium DFA150-450 lens with an teleconverter design for apsc image circle. And I even wonder what Ricoh had in mind when the designed the TC for apsc only? Were there trying to save 50gr of weight on the TC ?

Other companies offer such FF TC, they even offer not one but two TC (1.4x and 2.0x). Looks like a TC is not so difficult to make.

02-05-2022, 12:42 AM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
It would be wise if Ricoh should offer a FF frame version of that TC, especially designed to work well with the DFA70-200 2.8 and the DFA150-450.
I suspect that you would have a little better performance when that TC was dedicated to a set of lenses, I know that I have had issues with TC's that are designed around that it can be used with about any lens.

With the newer sigma tc I have found it to work very well within the lenses it was designed to be used with.

AF accuracy be an issue when used with a TC and I would recommend really setting up calibration for the intended use this would include the subject distance.
02-05-2022, 01:01 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ian Stuart Forsyth Quote
I suspect that you would have a little better performance when that TC was dedicated to a set of lenses
I'm pretty sure that is the case, because light is projected differently (different angle) onto the sensor , depending on lens design. So the optimal TC optic is designed to be a continuation of the lens optic.
I used the Pentax HD DA TC with the DA 300 and it worked very well. I sold the DA300 and bought the 150-450, I still had the TC , used it for a while with the 150-450, I compared apsc crops to full frame + the HD TC and I decided to sell the TC.
The decision to sell the TC was easy. With apsc crop I got double the frame rate, no vignetting and better sharpness. Plus I got the money from selling the TC. If I wanted more "reach" out of the DFA150450, I'd use a Pentax K3 Mk III instead of a DA TC.
FF TC for the 150-450 or 70-200 2.8, yes I'm all for it.

Last edited by biz-engineer; 02-05-2022 at 01:09 AM.
02-05-2022, 02:18 AM - 1 Like   #4
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I have noticed when using DFA*70-200 + TC with my K-3III, it needs to be stopped down one click to get nice contrast and sharpness. It goes along with the test with 150-450. While it might be nice to have FF dedicated 1,4 and Perhaps even 2,0? K-3III is effective offering you both, with improved AF when you use those lenses with or with out TC…a bit expensive solution, but it does work.

02-05-2022, 04:07 AM - 4 Likes   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
I've use that K1+TC+150-450 combo back in 2017 and 2018, shot something like 5000 bird images with it.
When I archived images during pandemic lock-down, I reviewed images and decided to delete them all.
Lots of vignetting and not sharp => delete.
I am confused as to the reason for this thread.
Are you disputing the review by @bdery as being incorrect somehow, or only that you couldn't achieve the same results?

From what I see in the review, with image based evidence of the 150-450 with and without the converter, is that the lens/TC pairing gives sharper results than up-sampling lens only images. It would have been helpful for you to post some images to back up your claims for us to see ourselves, but that is not possible, because you deleted all your evidence. For me, the excellent review stands until I can be shown otherwise.

Below is a screenshot from the review.
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02-05-2022, 05:47 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote

To me it makes no sense to cripple the performance of a premium DFA150-450 lens with an teleconverter design for apsc image circle. And I even wonder what Ricoh had in mind when the designed the TC for apsc only? Were there trying to save 50gr of weight on the TC ?
Makes perferct sense to me. The DA converter is targeted to those who shoot with the APS format.
02-05-2022, 06:15 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by pjv Quote
I am confused as to the reason for this thread.Are you disputing the review by @bdery as being incorrect somehow, or only that you couldn't achieve the same results?
I would never dare say the review of Pentax forums and especially the conclusion is incorrect, because Pentax forum has full authority on what content it publishes.
I believe Ricoh would never recommend that choice of gear, and no camera shop with decent professionalism would.
But after all, if the artistic intend is to give image a spy style taken from behind a hole, why not.

---------- Post added 05-02-22 at 14:52 ----------

Unless that review is preliminary to the newly rumored Pentax full frame TC that Ricoh are about to release around CP+ (2022) and show a mock-up of the Pentax K1 mk III.


Last edited by biz-engineer; 02-05-2022 at 06:53 AM.
02-05-2022, 02:40 PM - 1 Like   #8
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I have shot a lot of frames with the K-1 and DFA 150-450 + 1.4xTC, with good results.
I almost exclusively shoot birds.
In my experience the image quality is very good, hard to discern any difference with and without the TC.
Whilst there is some vignetting with this combination, I consider it to be of little consequence...it is rare that some cropping isn't required with shots of birds.

Cheers,
Terry
02-05-2022, 07:46 PM   #9
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The vignetting of the TC has been known since the K1 arrived. To consider this a part of the decision to delete the photos is strange. I understand that focus and composition are possibly good reasons, these are also quite retrievable with the development of new software.
Also consider that as we reach further our technique is called on more to be spot on. Then comes the atmospheric conditions that are between us and the subject.
However as you have deleted them we cannot work out what went wrong or how to mitigate what happened.
02-06-2022, 01:00 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Joetitch Quote
The vignetting of the TC has been known since the K1 arrived. To consider this a part of the decision to delete the photos is strange.
The reason I deleted picture was because the content wasn't great, and the vignetting made it worse, especially compared with other images of wildlife without the TC and without the vignetting. I asked myself "should I keep thousands of images with vignetting? Is that good use of storage space considered I have lots of better images taken without the TC?"

I don't understand how people can defend how good is a crop tele-converter simply because there is no Pentax full frame TC for digital.

My advice is for the price of this Pentax TC, get a crop camera (K3 or K3II, or even a KP or a K70), get more frames per second, more buffer, better AF point frame coverage , faster shutter speeds (TC decrease light by one stop), same resolution and no vignetting.
02-06-2022, 03:17 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
The reason I deleted picture was because the content wasn't great, and the vignetting made it worse, especially compared with other images of wildlife without the TC and without the vignetting. I asked myself "should I keep thousands of images with vignetting? Is that good use of storage space considered I have lots of better images taken without the TC?"

I don't understand how people can defend how good is a crop tele-converter simply because there is no Pentax full frame TC for digital.

My advice is for the price of this Pentax TC, get a crop camera (K3 or K3II, or even a KP or a K70), get more frames per second, more buffer, better AF point frame coverage , faster shutter speeds (TC decrease light by one stop), same resolution and no vignetting.
I think the title of this thread doesn‘t meet fully what you‘re talking about. That seems to be usage of this lens/tc1.4x-combo in K1 FF mode.

If you choose APS-C mode there shouldn‘t be a problem with vignetting.

But I guess you want full FF resolution. So cropping to APS-C format isn‘t what you‘re looking for.

We simply need a FF-optimized Pentax FF TC1.4x because we also want to see the metadata properly and the camera’s SR should use this data.

Maybe it takes time since Ricoh develops a TC that includes SR to combine with the body internal SR for optimized shake reduction. Such a TC would allow to apply advanced „two-point SR“ to every lens that can be used with the TC - a weird idea, I know.
02-06-2022, 05:53 AM - 6 Likes   #12
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Sorry for taking this a different direction but…

How can you be 5000 images and 2 years into shooting without realizing that it wasn’t giving the results you wanted?

Am I missing something here.
02-06-2022, 07:37 AM - 1 Like   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
Sorry for taking this a different direction but…

How can you be 5000 images and 2 years into shooting without realizing that it wasn’t giving the results you wanted?

Am I missing something here.
Hyperbole.
02-06-2022, 02:47 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
I don't understand how people can defend how good is a crop tele-converter simply because there is no Pentax full frame TC for digital.
I'm not defending for that reason, but simply because it gives good results for me.
I also use it with the K-3 II and K-3 Mark III, but you specifically referred to use with the K-1.

Cheers,
Terry

Last edited by tduell; 02-06-2022 at 07:54 PM.
02-06-2022, 03:25 PM - 1 Like   #15
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If I want more reach from a full frame telephoto, my preferred option is to put it on a crop camera.
If I want even more reach, I add the (crop) teleconverter to the crop camera.

I don't think I would buy a full frame teleconverter.
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