Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
02-24-2022, 09:55 AM   #1
Pentaxian
Michael Piziak's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 2,665
single lens reverse vs twin lens reverse vs macro lens (?)

I have 2 macro lens (both Pentax, one a smc 50mm M and the other a 100mm M), but I'm intrigued by both the single lens reverse macro technique and the twin lens reverse macro technique.

Questions: What are the advantages/disadvantages of either of the reverse macro techniques as compared to using a dedicated macro lens ? I'm asking more so in the line of optical advantages/disadvantages than price points.

I have a set of Pentax official branded extension tubes (3 in the set). I do like added the tubes from time to time to increase magnification; furthermore, I like how adding the tube(s) to the 50mm macro actually increases magnification more as opposed to adding the tubes to the 100mm macro lens.


Regards,

Michael


Last edited by Michael Piziak; 02-24-2022 at 10:03 AM.
02-24-2022, 10:15 AM   #2
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: North Wales
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,689
Johan Ingles-Le-Nobel's (he's on PF too) website is the good reference for this sort of thing:

Extreme Macro Photography
02-24-2022, 10:16 AM   #3
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
UncleVanya's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2014
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 24,474
QuoteOriginally posted by marcusBMG Quote
Johan Ingles-Le-Nobel's (he's on PF too) website is the good reference for this sort of thing:

Extreme Macro Photography
Beat me to it.

---------- Post added 02-24-22 at 12:19 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Michael Piziak Quote
I have 2 macro lens (both Pentax, one a smc 50mm M and the other a 100mm M), but I'm intrigued by both the single lens reverse macro technique and the twin lens reverse macro technique.

Questions: What are the advantages/disadvantages of either of the reverse macro techniques as compared to using a dedicated macro lens ? I'm asking more so in the line of optical advantages/disadvantages than price points.

I have a set of Pentax official branded extension tubes (3 in the set). I do like added the tubes from time to time to increase magnification; furthermore, I like how adding the tube(s) to the 50mm macro actually increases magnification more as opposed to adding the tubes to the 100mm macro lens.


Regards,

Michael
My summary.

Macro is super flexible. Easy to use. Up to 1:1 typically.

Reversed is high quality with less flexible use. Very limited working distance.

Lens stacking one reversed on the front of another is very high magnification and very limited working distances. But super high quality for the magnification.
02-24-2022, 10:40 AM - 1 Like   #4
Seeker of Knowledge
Loyal Site Supporter
aslyfox's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Topeka, Kansas
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 24,316
QuoteOriginally posted by Michael Piziak Quote
I have 2 macro lens (both Pentax, one a smc 50mm M and the other a 100mm M), . . . ,

Michael
If I found the right lenses,

the Max. Magnification is 0.5



neither are 1:1

02-24-2022, 11:00 AM   #5
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
Lowell Goudge's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Toronto
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 17,338
Until internally focused macros came about, the only 1:1 Pentax macro to my knowledge was the first generation Takumar preset macro lenses. All others went to 1:2 with the lens itself, and 1:1 or better with extension tubes
02-24-2022, 11:00 AM   #6
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Idaho
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,949
QuoteOriginally posted by Michael Piziak Quote
...........................Questions: What are the advantages/disadvantages of either of the reverse macro techniques as compared to using a dedicated macro lens ? I'm asking more so in the line of optical advantages/disadvantages than price points....................
It's more of a hit and miss thing when using a reversed lens. It will depend on the main lens as well as the lens used in reverse, neither of which is generally designed for close-up use. A macro, on the other hand, is designed for that purpose (macro) specifically and they generally have very good optics. That's not to say you can't get good macro photos with a reversed arrangement, it's just less probable compared to a macro whose design is the goal of such photography.

Some advantages of the reverse arrangement: The technique can allow you to go well beyond the magnification of a given macro (many of which top out at 1:1), and you may be able to shoot at lower f values determined by the prime lens (but the latter is a disadvantage unto itself since you need higher f values for better DOF). The other is of course cost.
02-24-2022, 11:01 AM   #7
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
baro-nite's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: North Carolina, USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 5,269
Both are good techniques for high-quality extreme macro. Don't believe the often-repeated claim that single-lens is better just because fewer lens elements are involved. I've tested both techniques and found good results both ways, with the two-lens technique often giving better edge-to-edge results.

For fine control over magnification of course a bellows is best, and well-matched to the 50mm macro.

02-24-2022, 11:57 AM   #8
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
MossyRocks's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Minnesota
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,778
I've had good luck using reversed lenses for getting to about 1:1 (reversed M42 SMC 50/1.8 Takumar) and about 2:1 (reversed M42 SMC 28/3.5 Takumar). In those situations the focus ring basically did nothing, or nothing I could see but at 2:1 I did get a nice shot even if cropped some. At some point I want to try the dual lens with the short one reversed in front of a long one because I can get to about 11:1 with the Laowa 12/2.8 and Rokinon 135/2 UMC. With the hoods on the lenses the Laowa 12mm actually nests very nicely inside the hood of the Rokinon so I want to use some gaffer's tape to hold it together. For that I think I will need the big powerful shop light as one loses a lot of light at 11:1. I'm not really sure what I will shoot with that and the only thing I can immediately think of is pointing that setup at the shiny side of a CD and photography the pits since I think with the K-3iii they should be resolvable.
02-24-2022, 02:23 PM   #9
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
gofour3's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 7,729
This macro e-book written by a forum member, has tons of useful information:

The Pentax Macro eBook - Articles and Tips | PentaxForums.com

Phil.
02-24-2022, 06:08 PM   #10
Pentaxian
swanlefitte's Avatar

Join Date: May 2015
Location: Minneapolis
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,020
I wondered too. The rings are so cheap I bought several for all sized lens thread. The answer is that unless I want extreme macro the single lens is best. If I don't know the 2 lenses with zoom is best. It is a niche of a niche. I wish I had a raynox because I think that would be my second choice.
02-24-2022, 07:16 PM   #11
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pugetopolis, WA
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 784
QuoteOriginally posted by aslyfox Quote
the Max. Magnification is 0.5
Yes, with the M macros, you need extension to get 1:1, they both have long enough throws to get to 2:1 or 1/2 life size, as-is. With the set of tubes he mentioned, he has enough extension to get to 1:1 with either lens.
The M50 with the number 2 tube should be 1:1; with all three tubes stacked, and the focus all the way out, it should get you to about 1:1.5 or so,
the full set of tubes on the M100 just gets you to 1:1.
For really close, with no working room, try a 24 or 28mm, reversed, with extension tubes, the back of the lens is almost touching your subject. Probably 3:1-ish, depending on how much extension you use.
02-24-2022, 11:52 PM   #12
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,123
A macro lens is a tool. Reversing rings, couplings are toys. You donít really want to stow away a camera with reversed lens. Focus range does not exist, it is fixed at a certain distance or magnification. Putting weight on filter threads is not the best idea. You donít want to do large magnification without support, if you carry a flash or a tripod why not use the macro lens.
02-25-2022, 12:42 PM   #13
Forum Member




Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 97
When using a single reversed lens, you put the image plane at register distance. Unless that lens would be able to focus that close, you're outside the envelope of its optical design. That's usually the point where aberrations happen.

Using two lenses allows both of them to operate at infinity, which is well within what they were designed for, You only add a 3rd aperture stop (the reversing ring) which shouldn't be a problem since the lenses would be stopped down anyway.
As long as the entrance pupils on the front elements line up, you should be good.
I recommend using simple designs from the same family (such as double gauss). You end up with an optical design that isn't that much different from an actual macro lens such as the Laowa 25mm.
Contrary to popular belief, the image quality of coupled lenses can be excellent.
You may want to get a small ring light, though - such as this one:
amazon.com : Laowa Front LED Ring Light for 25mm 2.5-5X Ultra-Macro Lens : Electronics?tag=pentaxforums-20&
02-25-2022, 03:19 PM   #14
Pentaxian
Kobayashi.K's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2013
Photos: Albums
Posts: 716
QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
Until internally focused macros came about, the only 1:1 Pentax macro to my knowledge was the first generation Takumar preset macro lenses. All others went to 1:2 with the lens itself, and 1:1 or better with extension tubes
These go up to 1x:

SMC Pentax-A Macro 100 mm f/ 2.8
SMC Pentax-D FA 50mm F2.8 Macro
Panagor 2.8/55mm Macro (K mount) [1]

They are in the PF lens database.
[1] Panagor 55mm f2.8 Macro PMC Lens Reviews - Miscellaneous Lenses - Pentax Lens Review Database

Last edited by Kobayashi.K; 02-25-2022 at 03:32 PM. Reason: SMC Pentax-D FA added
02-25-2022, 03:33 PM   #15
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
Lowell Goudge's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Toronto
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 17,338
QuoteOriginally posted by Kobayashi.K Quote
These go up to 1x:

SMC Pentax-A Macro 100 mm f/ 2.8
Panagor 2.8/55mm Macro (K mount) [1]

Both are in the PF lens database.
[1] Panagor 55mm f2.8 Macro PMC Lens Reviews - Miscellaneous Lenses - Pentax Lens Review Database
The A 100/2.8 macro has a minimum focus distance off 31cm (this is defined as from the focus plane) considering 1:1 is achieved when subject to lens = lens to focal plane distance = 2x focal length, the close focus is achieved by some portion of internal focusing achieved by reducing the real focal length to focus.

The specs of the pangor are similar, for a 50 mm lens to have a 50mm minimum focusing distance, it must be physically less than 50 mm focal length at 1:1 magnification
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
50mm, k-mount, lens, lens reverse vs, macro, magnification, pentax, pentax lens, quality, reverse, slr lens, technique, time, tubes, vs, vs macro lens, vs twin lens
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is it Single "in" or Single "LN" shardulm Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 4 12-01-2018 08:29 AM
K-5 vs MZ-S vs LX vs PZ-1p vs ist*D vs K10D vs K20D vs K-7 vs....... Steelski Pentax K-5 & K-5 II 2 06-28-2017 04:59 PM
Will the single lens reflex go the way of the twin lens reflex? top-quark Photographic Industry and Professionals 29 05-24-2013 07:59 AM
Wanted - Acquired: Pentax Q- Either colour, single or twin lens kit. Tonto Sold Items 6 08-28-2012 05:42 AM
Macro Twin Drops Twin Views eaglem Post Your Photos! 2 04-19-2011 06:54 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:50 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top