Any hints that KAF⁴ could bring more 3rd party lenses??

jimr-pdx · 05-23-2022, 12:20 PM

Just curious. Now that electronics control the aperture, the mechanical expenses to add K mount are gone, it's just software and/or a couple of wiring changes in the mount.
It always sounds easy from my couch, though

Not a Number · 05-23-2022, 01:31 PM

You need some sort of motor or actuator to move the diaphragm in the lens as well as wiring.

Third party support depends on how much time and money the companies are willing to put into the products vs return on investment (ROI).

**pepperberry farm** · 05-23-2022, 01:51 PM

how long has this version of the k-mount been here?

**pres589** · 05-23-2022, 02:15 PM

I think remaining 3rd parties who are interested in selling K-mount glass will do so with mechanical stop-down linkages if we get them at all, so, KA. I don't know if we'll ever get a new autofocusing 3rd party lens again in K-mount; none have come to market in some time. The other issue is how much focus is going to lenses with much shorter distances from flange-to-sensor, meaning mirrorless and rangefinder lenses, which are not going to easily cross over to SLR-type designs like what goes on a K-mount camera.

I'm also thinking that of the 3rd party glass that does come along is going to be more of the "neutered" K-mount type which doesn't work with cameras that have an aperture linkage like the Irix primes that are on the market and do not work on almost any of the K-mount film cameras made. I know most people who have such cameras and are still using them are not buying a lot of glass; it is still a further reduction in the possibly pool of buyers.

kypfer · 05-23-2022, 03:49 PM

Point to consider is that both Tamron and Sigma have indicated they intend to concentrate on the mirrorless market.
This will mean that only new telephoto designs may be suitable for adaption to conventional DSLRs, even if there was a perceived profitable market for them!
"The times they are a-changin' … "

pinholecam · 05-23-2022, 06:21 PM - **2 Likes**

Pentax does not have the market share for major 3rd party makers to care.
I am already grateful that smaller manual makers like Laowa makes lenses in K-mount.

The Squirrel Mafia · 05-23-2022, 07:45 PM

Nay! All of them have pretty much moved onto mirrorless "pastures". There are a few pumping some manual lenses for the K-mount, but they've mainly been manual focus designs.

You're looking at current & new PENTAX made glass from here on out whether Ricoh does it themselves or they collaborate with Tamron and/or Tokina.

**pres589** · 05-23-2022, 07:58 PM

The company Ricoh might collaborate with has to want to do something SLR-ish again, and Tamron seems to have moved on from that with their new offerings. Tokina I don't know about these days, which was recently discussed here, with them working on cine lenses so they might actually produce designs that work on a K-mount camera. I wouldn't hold my breath though.

**clackers** · 05-23-2022, 08:33 PM - **4 Likes**

The mount was never a deal breaker, it's market share. In a declining market for both cameras and lenses, a serious third party has to cull its product lines, and niche product development has to stop.

Sigma, Tamron and Tokina have to survive.

The latest Tamron lenses are not even available in Panasonic, Olympus, Canon or Nikon mounts, let alone Pentax!

sprint113 · 05-24-2022, 10:46 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by pepperberry farm

how long has this version of the k-mount been here?

Relatively new, introduced with the DA 55-300PLM in 2016, only other lenses are the DFA* 50mm, DFA* 85mm and DFA 70-210 f4

Originally posted by clackers

The mount was never a deal breaker,

If I remember correctly, Sigma did cite the mechanical aperture being one part of the why they dropped Pentax. Nikon also had mechanical apertures, but at the time, they had the market share to justify the extra cost. Of course, that could have all been just a small part, when it was almost entirely the sales numbers.

Sigma offers lens mount conversion service to Pentax K for the current "global vision" generation of lenses (up until they dropped support), which suggests that they probably still have the tooling to make K-mount versions of their last DSLR offerings. However, if they want to take advantage of the mechanically simpler KAF4, they would have to reverse engineer the communication protocol and there's a good chance they wouldn't make back that investment.

**clackers** · 05-24-2022, 04:43 PM

Originally posted by sprint113

If I remember correctly, Sigma did cite the mechanical aperture being one part of the why they dropped Pentax. Nikon also had mechanical apertures, but at the time, they had the market share to justify the extra cost. Of course, that could have all been just a small part, when it was almost entirely the sales numbers.

Yes, I think he was just being kind in saying that to the press.

I spoke years ago to an employee of Sigma Australia on the other hand who said it was simply about the quantity of product shifted. That's it.

Originally posted by sprint113

Sigma offers lens mount conversion service to Pentax K for the current "global vision" generation of lenses (up until they dropped support), which suggests that they probably still have the tooling to make K-mount versions of their last DSLR offerings. However, if they want to take advantage of the mechanically simpler KAF4, they would have to reverse engineer the communication protocol and there's a good chance they wouldn't make back that investment.

Yes, agree totally.

05-23-2022, 12:20 PM	#1
jimr-pdx Pentaxian Join Date: May 2010 Location: now 1 hour north of PDX Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,897	Any hints that KAF⁴ could bring more 3rd party lenses?? Just curious. Now that electronics control the aperture, the mechanical expenses to add K mount are gone, it's just software and/or a couple of wiring changes in the mount. It always sounds easy from my couch, though

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05-23-2022, 01:31 PM	#2
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	You need some sort of motor or actuator to move the diaphragm in the lens as well as wiring. Third party support depends on how much time and money the companies are willing to put into the products vs return on investment (ROI).

05-23-2022, 01:51 PM	#3
pepperberry farm amateur dirt farmer Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: probably out in a field somewhere... Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 41,751	how long has this version of the k-mount been here?

05-23-2022, 02:15 PM	#4
pres589 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Wichita, KS Photos: Albums Posts: 4,533	I think remaining 3rd parties who are interested in selling K-mount glass will do so with mechanical stop-down linkages if we get them at all, so, KA. I don't know if we'll ever get a new autofocusing 3rd party lens again in K-mount; none have come to market in some time. The other issue is how much focus is going to lenses with much shorter distances from flange-to-sensor, meaning mirrorless and rangefinder lenses, which are not going to easily cross over to SLR-type designs like what goes on a K-mount camera. I'm also thinking that of the 3rd party glass that does come along is going to be more of the "neutered" K-mount type which doesn't work with cameras that have an aperture linkage like the Irix primes that are on the market and do not work on almost any of the K-mount film cameras made. I know most people who have such cameras and are still using them are not buying a lot of glass; it is still a further reduction in the possibly pool of buyers.

05-23-2022, 03:49 PM	#5
kypfer Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Jersey C.I. Posts: 3,595	Point to consider is that both Tamron and Sigma have indicated they intend to concentrate on the mirrorless market. This will mean that only new telephoto designs may be suitable for adaption to conventional DSLRs, even if there was a perceived profitable market for them! "The times they are a-changin' … "

05-23-2022, 06:21 PM - 2 Likes	#6
pinholecam Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: North Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,709	Pentax does not have the market share for major 3rd party makers to care. I am already grateful that smaller manual makers like Laowa makes lenses in K-mount.

05-23-2022, 07:45 PM	#7
The Squirrel Mafia Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 3,056	Nay! All of them have pretty much moved onto mirrorless "pastures". There are a few pumping some manual lenses for the K-mount, but they've mainly been manual focus designs. You're looking at current & new PENTAX made glass from here on out whether Ricoh does it themselves or they collaborate with Tamron and/or Tokina.

05-23-2022, 07:58 PM	#8
pres589 Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Wichita, KS Photos: Albums Posts: 4,533	The company Ricoh might collaborate with has to want to do something SLR-ish again, and Tamron seems to have moved on from that with their new offerings. Tokina I don't know about these days, which was recently discussed here, with them working on cine lenses so they might actually produce designs that work on a K-mount camera. I wouldn't hold my breath though.

05-23-2022, 08:33 PM - 4 Likes	#9
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	The mount was never a deal breaker, it's market share. In a declining market for both cameras and lenses, a serious third party has to cull its product lines, and niche product development has to stop. Sigma, Tamron and Tokina have to survive. The latest Tamron lenses are not even available in Panasonic, Olympus, Canon or Nikon mounts, let alone Pentax!

05-24-2022, 10:46 AM - 1 Like	#10
sprint113 Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 62	Originally posted by pepperberry farm how long has this version of the k-mount been here? Relatively new, introduced with the DA 55-300PLM in 2016, only other lenses are the DFA* 50mm, DFA* 85mm and DFA 70-210 f4 Originally posted by clackers The mount was never a deal breaker, If I remember correctly, Sigma did cite the mechanical aperture being one part of the why they dropped Pentax. Nikon also had mechanical apertures, but at the time, they had the market share to justify the extra cost. Of course, that could have all been just a small part, when it was almost entirely the sales numbers. Sigma offers lens mount conversion service to Pentax K for the current "global vision" generation of lenses (up until they dropped support), which suggests that they probably still have the tooling to make K-mount versions of their last DSLR offerings. However, if they want to take advantage of the mechanically simpler KAF4, they would have to reverse engineer the communication protocol and there's a good chance they wouldn't make back that investment.

05-24-2022, 04:43 PM	#11
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by sprint113 If I remember correctly, Sigma did cite the mechanical aperture being one part of the why they dropped Pentax. Nikon also had mechanical apertures, but at the time, they had the market share to justify the extra cost. Of course, that could have all been just a small part, when it was almost entirely the sales numbers. Yes, I think he was just being kind in saying that to the press. I spoke years ago to an employee of Sigma Australia on the other hand who said it was simply about the quantity of product shifted. That's it. Originally posted by sprint113 Sigma offers lens mount conversion service to Pentax K for the current "global vision" generation of lenses (up until they dropped support), which suggests that they probably still have the tooling to make K-mount versions of their last DSLR offerings. However, if they want to take advantage of the mechanically simpler KAF4, they would have to reverse engineer the communication protocol and there's a good chance they wouldn't make back that investment. Yes, agree totally.