NEW TOY!!!....umm...uh oh...

RT1 · 12-16-2008, 08:09 PM

Well, I got a new toy today that I won on the bay...

Obviously I was super excited to get this rare piece of exceptional glass.
.
.
.
.
Then I noticed this...

...what you see just above the center of the lens seems to be between the first 2 elements, and is only visible in decent light and if the lens is held at an angle (as pictured).

Thoughts?

Last edited by RT1; 12-16-2008 at 09:58 PM.

CSoars · 12-16-2008, 08:16 PM

Fungus? Separation of bonded elements? I'd get it fixed ASAP. I had the K version of that lens, and it had a few dust flecks, that's all.

RT1 · 12-16-2008, 09:56 PM

The inclusion is very faint, and not visible when you look directly into the lens...I've not had a lens with fungus in it before. Does it usually appear so faint? (I had to tweak the above image to make it more visible).

Does our fantastic community here have a favorite source for conducting lens repairs?

**Just1MoreDave** · 12-16-2008, 10:44 PM

My wild guess/first impression is that a spot of fungus etched the coatings a bit before the fungus was removed. It's not exactly clear from the photo, but that type of damage is hard to capture.

Peter Zack · 12-16-2008, 11:16 PM

I'd go to a good camera shop or repair shop in your area and have them look at it. it's tough to tell if it's seperation or fungus. Fugus you can live with bit seperation is a problem.

John Kovarik · 12-17-2008, 05:41 AM

Unless the seller noted the problem in the listing I would certainly recommend that you contact them. As others have noted, either fungus or separation may continue and must be fixed and that may be expensive........good luck!

JCSullivan · 12-17-2008, 07:21 AM

Look thru the lens from the rear side with aperture wide open.

RT1 · 12-17-2008, 07:58 AM

Originally posted by John Kovarik

Unless the seller noted the problem in the listing I would certainly recommend that you contact them. As others have noted, either fungus or separation may continue and must be fixed and that may be expensive........good luck!

Believe me, the seller's been contacted. What kind of expense are we talking here?

Originally posted by JCSullivan

Look thru the lens from the rear side with aperture wide open.

No trace of it when I look through the the rear of the lens. I can only see it in the front when held at an angle & getting an angle on it from the rear is just about impossible. What's to be concluded from looking through the rear?

Peter Zack · 12-17-2008, 09:05 AM

Fungus typically looks like a random spider web or "tree" that is faint white growing from a single point. Here's an explanation. Fungi in Photographic Lens

So I had a lens cleaned from fungus and the cost was $150.00. The shop did a great job and told me they have to clean the entire lens because the spores could be anywhere inside the unit.

Separation is another issue. Lens groups inside the lens barrel are cemented together. They are air tight between the pieces of glass. The cement somehow comes loose (being dropped?) and air gets between the glass elements. So the lens must be disassembled and reglued then properly aligned. It's only a job for a factory service tech in most cases and will cost more. My bet? $300 Factory repairs ain't cheap. I had a 2 hour repair done by Sigma a couple of months ago that cost me $450.00

So I recommend you get the lens to a service shop in the area and have them assess and give you a ballpark idea of fungus cleaning if it's that. If they say it's separation, then either get a refund or a big discount and live with it till it starts failing and you want to spend the money to repair.

**Just1MoreDave** · 12-17-2008, 11:43 AM

I always look at an optical diagram to see if element separation is a possibility. For this lens, the cemented elements are toward the back, and the OP says the problem is close to the front.

Optical diagram for this lens:

http://kmp.bdimitrov.de/lenses/primes/_optics/50f1.2.gif

RT1 · 12-17-2008, 01:11 PM

Originally posted by Just1MoreDave

I always look at an optical diagram to see if element separation is a possibility. For this lens, the cemented elements are toward the back, and the OP says the problem is close to the front.

Optical diagram for this lens:

.
.
.
.
Based on that diagram, I'd say the cloudiness encircles where the front two elements are touching.

I may just eat the cost of shipping this back to Japan, and try again on another piece of glass. I'm swinging by a lens repair place tonight for an estimate though...just to be sure.

Miserere · 12-17-2008, 02:27 PM

Originally posted by RT1

.I may just eat the cost of shipping this back to Japan, and try again on another piece of glass. I'm swinging by a lens repair place tonight for an estimate though...just to be sure.

If you decide to return it, I would request from the seller they he/she pay your return shipment costs. You are not returning the lens because you didn't like it, but because it is defective and the seller didn't advertise it as such. You shouldn't have to pay for the incompetence. If the seller refuses to pay return shipping, then I would initiate a claim with PayPal demanding payment + return shipping expenses. PayPal will always take the side of the buyer, especially in a case such as this.

chse · 12-17-2008, 02:50 PM

I read a story somewhere that Pentax had some problems with a drying process an it left staining similar to yours (very faint ones). It was a while ago - try google yourself...

I would definitely return it to the seller, there is a good chance that one element is damaged making it unrepairable and you will be stuck with the costs.

wallyb · 12-17-2008, 04:00 PM

Originally posted by Miserere

If you decide to return it, I would request from the seller they he/she pay your return shipment costs. You are not returning the lens because you didn't like it, but because it is defective and the seller didn't advertise it as such. You shouldn't have to pay for the incompetence. If the seller refuses to pay return shipping, then I would initiate a claim with PayPal demanding payment + return shipping expenses. PayPal will always take the side of the buyer, especially in a case such as this.

You will not get return shipping costs paid for, ESPECIALLY not if you open a PayPal claim. They are never paid for, unless the seller wants to. PayPal does NOT and NEVER takes return shipping costs out of a seller's account for a buyer, under ANY circumstance.

**Ron Boggs** · 12-17-2008, 07:46 PM

Pentax Customer Service is the best place to contact. Huge amounts of repair cost next to nothing. I've had a 600/4 mondo lens shipped clear to Japan by the Colorado Service folks and the bill was still under $300.

Wouldn't doubt if they have that lens element sitting in a bin waiting to be installed into your lens. I've had several outdated lenses and bodies serviced by Pentax in Colorado. Nothing but praise for the service and the pricing from me!

The service only number is 800-877-0155

12-16-2008, 08:09 PM	#1
RT1 Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Kansas City Photos: Gallery Posts: 85	NEW TOY!!! (SMC-A 1:1.2 50mm)....umm...uh oh... Well, I got a new toy today that I won on the bay... Obviously I was super excited to get this rare piece of exceptional glass. . . . . Then I noticed this... ...what you see just above the center of the lens seems to be between the first 2 elements, and is only visible in decent light and if the lens is held at an angle (as pictured). Thoughts? Last edited by RT1; 12-16-2008 at 09:58 PM.

12-17-2008, 05:41 AM	#6
John Kovarik Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: West Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 338	1.2 defects Unless the seller noted the problem in the listing I would certainly recommend that you contact them. As others have noted, either fungus or separation may continue and must be fixed and that may be expensive........good luck!

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12-16-2008, 08:16 PM	#2
CSoars Inactive Account Join Date: May 2008 Location: Edmonton, Canada Posts: 322	Fungus? Separation of bonded elements? I'd get it fixed ASAP. I had the K version of that lens, and it had a few dust flecks, that's all.

12-16-2008, 09:56 PM	#3
RT1 Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Kansas City Photos: Gallery Posts: 85 Original Poster	The inclusion is very faint, and not visible when you look directly into the lens...I've not had a lens with fungus in it before. Does it usually appear so faint? (I had to tweak the above image to make it more visible). Does our fantastic community here have a favorite source for conducting lens repairs?

12-16-2008, 10:44 PM	#4
Just1MoreDave Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Aurora, CO Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,340	My wild guess/first impression is that a spot of fungus etched the coatings a bit before the fungus was removed. It's not exactly clear from the photo, but that type of damage is hard to capture.

12-16-2008, 11:16 PM	#5
Peter Zack Pentaxian Moderator Emeritus Join Date: May 2007 Location: Edmonton Alberta, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 10,643	I'd go to a good camera shop or repair shop in your area and have them look at it. it's tough to tell if it's seperation or fungus. Fugus you can live with bit seperation is a problem.

12-17-2008, 07:21 AM	#7
JCSullivan Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Windsor, Canada Posts: 3,056	Look thru the lens from the rear side with aperture wide open.

12-17-2008, 07:58 AM	#8
RT1 Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Kansas City Photos: Gallery Posts: 85 Original Poster	Originally posted by John Kovarik Unless the seller noted the problem in the listing I would certainly recommend that you contact them. As others have noted, either fungus or separation may continue and must be fixed and that may be expensive........good luck! Believe me, the seller's been contacted. What kind of expense are we talking here? Originally posted by JCSullivan Look thru the lens from the rear side with aperture wide open. No trace of it when I look through the the rear of the lens. I can only see it in the front when held at an angle & getting an angle on it from the rear is just about impossible. What's to be concluded from looking through the rear?

12-17-2008, 09:05 AM	#9
Peter Zack Pentaxian Moderator Emeritus Join Date: May 2007 Location: Edmonton Alberta, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 10,643	Fungus typically looks like a random spider web or "tree" that is faint white growing from a single point. Here's an explanation. Fungi in Photographic Lens So I had a lens cleaned from fungus and the cost was $150.00. The shop did a great job and told me they have to clean the entire lens because the spores could be anywhere inside the unit. Separation is another issue. Lens groups inside the lens barrel are cemented together. They are air tight between the pieces of glass. The cement somehow comes loose (being dropped?) and air gets between the glass elements. So the lens must be disassembled and reglued then properly aligned. It's only a job for a factory service tech in most cases and will cost more. My bet? $300 Factory repairs ain't cheap. I had a 2 hour repair done by Sigma a couple of months ago that cost me $450.00 So I recommend you get the lens to a service shop in the area and have them assess and give you a ballpark idea of fungus cleaning if it's that. If they say it's separation, then either get a refund or a big discount and live with it till it starts failing and you want to spend the money to repair.

12-17-2008, 11:43 AM	#10
Just1MoreDave Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Aurora, CO Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,340	I always look at an optical diagram to see if element separation is a possibility. For this lens, the cemented elements are toward the back, and the OP says the problem is close to the front. Optical diagram for this lens: http://kmp.bdimitrov.de/lenses/primes/_optics/50f1.2.gif

12-17-2008, 01:11 PM	#11
RT1 Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Kansas City Photos: Gallery Posts: 85 Original Poster	Originally posted by Just1MoreDave I always look at an optical diagram to see if element separation is a possibility. For this lens, the cemented elements are toward the back, and the OP says the problem is close to the front. Optical diagram for this lens: . . . . Based on that diagram, I'd say the cloudiness encircles where the front two elements are touching. I may just eat the cost of shipping this back to Japan, and try again on another piece of glass. I'm swinging by a lens repair place tonight for an estimate though...just to be sure.

12-17-2008, 02:27 PM	#12
Miserere Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Boston Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,993	Originally posted by RT1 .I may just eat the cost of shipping this back to Japan, and try again on another piece of glass. I'm swinging by a lens repair place tonight for an estimate though...just to be sure. If you decide to return it, I would request from the seller they he/she pay your return shipment costs. You are not returning the lens because you didn't like it, but because it is defective and the seller didn't advertise it as such. You shouldn't have to pay for the incompetence. If the seller refuses to pay return shipping, then I would initiate a claim with PayPal demanding payment + return shipping expenses. PayPal will always take the side of the buyer, especially in a case such as this.

12-17-2008, 02:50 PM	#13
chse Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 167	I read a story somewhere that Pentax had some problems with a drying process an it left staining similar to yours (very faint ones). It was a while ago - try google yourself... I would definitely return it to the seller, there is a good chance that one element is damaged making it unrepairable and you will be stuck with the costs.

12-17-2008, 04:00 PM	#14
wallyb Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: The Untied States Photos: Albums Posts: 1,881	Originally posted by Miserere If you decide to return it, I would request from the seller they he/she pay your return shipment costs. You are not returning the lens because you didn't like it, but because it is defective and the seller didn't advertise it as such. You shouldn't have to pay for the incompetence. If the seller refuses to pay return shipping, then I would initiate a claim with PayPal demanding payment + return shipping expenses. PayPal will always take the side of the buyer, especially in a case such as this. You will not get return shipping costs paid for, ESPECIALLY not if you open a PayPal claim. They are never paid for, unless the seller wants to. PayPal does NOT and NEVER takes return shipping costs out of a seller's account for a buyer, under ANY circumstance.

12-17-2008, 07:46 PM	#15
Ron Boggs Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: MT Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,350	Pentax Customer Service is the best place to contact. Huge amounts of repair cost next to nothing. I've had a 600/4 mondo lens shipped clear to Japan by the Colorado Service folks and the bill was still under $300. Wouldn't doubt if they have that lens element sitting in a bin waiting to be installed into your lens. I've had several outdated lenses and bodies serviced by Pentax in Colorado. Nothing but praise for the service and the pricing from me! The service only number is 800-877-0155