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06-16-2022, 07:27 PM   #1
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What happened to Bellows?

Even though Pentax sold bellows for decades they don't anymore, and never sold any with hookups for exposure or focus. What happened in photography that made bellows unwanted?

06-16-2022, 07:44 PM - 1 Like   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by dkpentax Quote
Even though Pentax sold bellows for decades they don't anymore, and never sold any with hookups for exposure or focus. What happened in photography that made bellows unwanted?
Most likely when auto-focus cameras came out and the contacts between the lens/camera were lost with a bellows unit. Also AF cameras viewfinders were worse for manual focusing in a darker viewfinder due to the bellows light loss.

Phil.
06-16-2022, 10:11 PM - 2 Likes   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by dkpentax Quote
Even though Pentax sold bellows for decades they don't anymore, and never sold any with hookups for exposure or focus. What happened in photography that made bellows unwanted?
One reason, I think, is that bellows has the uncanny ability to transfer a heap of dust to digital sensors. Some people who use bellows, for macro work, place a clear glass filter between the bellows and the mirror box to try to keep dust out of the mirror box and off the sensor. Evidence would seem to suggest that, with the right glass, there's virtually no image degradation.

See: Overcoming Sensor Dust etc - another image added - www.photomacrography.net
And: http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=102672#102672
06-16-2022, 11:31 PM   #4
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Which camera manufacturers make or supply bellows for their DSLRs or MILCs anyway? The bellows have gone the way of many system components they used to provide but simply don’t anymore.

06-16-2022, 11:45 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by gofour3 Quote
Most likely when auto-focus cameras came out and the contacts between the lens/camera were lost with a bellows unit. Also AF cameras viewfinders were worse for manual focusing in a darker viewfinder due to the bellows light loss.

Phil.
Yeah I believe most people want the convenience of auto exposure, AF, correct exif info in the pictures...
And with high ISO capabilities and image stabilization on digital cameras, handheld macro has become much easier.
So it believe it is mainly that bellows are too inconvenient to use that made them less popular.

But bellows are still manufactured by third party manufacturers.
06-17-2022, 12:20 AM - 1 Like   #6
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People got too lazy to use them.
06-17-2022, 04:28 AM - 2 Likes   #7
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Using a Bellows unit in Medium-format is a hell of a job ... First, it is difficult to find a used copy in good condition. It can be quite pricey to purchase. Second, it is strictly "manual-use", except for Autoexposure being possible in the Av mode of 645 or K-mount digital cameras. Third, handling is unwieldy and necessitates the use of a tripod. You need stability and good light to be able to compose and focus carefully. Fourth, the subject has to be static or you have to use chemical substances to get critters to stand still.

OTOH, the 645 Auto Bellows can be mounted on a 645 body or on a K-mount body with a proper '645 to K' adapter. Then at the other end, you can use either P645 lenses (A or FA) or P67 lenses with a '67 to 645' adapter, like the P67 100 mm f/4 MACRO. You have to use a cable release device on the side of the Auto Bellows to close the diaphragm of the lens to meter the exposure correctly.

So, difficult to use but exciting results are the final reward.


645Z + 645 Auto Bellows + 645 A 75 mm f/2.8


K3 + adapter + 645 Auto Bellows + 645 A 75 mm f/2.8



645Z + 645 Auto Bellows + 645 A 120 mm f/4 MACRO


645Z + 645 Auto Bellows + 645 A 120 mm f/4 MACRO


K3 + adapter + 645 Auto Bellows + 645 A 75 mm f/2.8


And don't forget your 1 liter pot of paint to adjust your composition and focusing ...



Last edited by RICHARD L.; 06-17-2022 at 04:44 AM.
06-17-2022, 06:03 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
Evidence would seem to suggest that, with the right glass, there's virtually no image degradation.
Coatings would play a larger role, beyond a certain basic level of quality for the glass.

I think the relative abundance of 2x macro lenses also gives another, simpler solution to people who would otherwise have looked at bellows.
06-17-2022, 06:17 AM   #9
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As it happens I just purchased a Pentax Auto Bellows II with Slide holder in excellent condition for around $60 off ebay. The only caveat is that it is M42 mount. Just shows that bargains can still be found. I hope this doesn't offend anybody, but I plan to modify it to hold the camera with macro lens mounted directly to the camera (basically removing the bellows completely and rigging a tripod mount to one of the adjustable blocks) . I intend to use the rig to digitize slides and negatives, but it will also be able to serve as a macro focusing rail in this configuration. I just won't be able to do magnifications beyond what the lens is natively capable of (unless I use extension tubes, of course).

Last edited by cdw2000; 06-17-2022 at 06:20 AM. Reason: Fixed a typo.
06-17-2022, 07:52 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by cdw2000 Quote
As it happens I just purchased a Pentax Auto Bellows II with Slide holder in excellent condition for around $60 off ebay. The only caveat is that it is M42 mount. Just shows that bargains can still be found. I hope this doesn't offend anybody, but I plan to modify it to hold the camera with macro lens mounted directly to the camera (basically removing the bellows completely and rigging a tripod mount to one of the adjustable blocks) . I intend to use the rig to digitize slides and negatives, but it will also be able to serve as a macro focusing rail in this configuration. I just won't be able to do magnifications beyond what the lens is natively capable of (unless I use extension tubes, of course).
While not offended by your proposed modifications, I'm surprised by the decision given what you say about possibly using extension tubes.

The entire point of a bellows to provide a much more powerful alternative to extension tubes as well as better control of subject distances and focus. Bellows beat extension tubes in two ways. First, bellows typically offer much more extension than can be done with tubes. Second, bellows offer much more flexibility and control in being able to rack-in or rack-out the exact amount of extension needed without the hassle of swapping different tubes in or out.

Perhaps I don't understand the necessity of removing the bellows to accomplish your goal.
06-17-2022, 08:40 AM - 1 Like   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
Perhaps I don't understand the necessity of removing the bellows to accomplish your goal.
The main reason is the fact that neither my camera or any of my lenses are M42 mount and that this particular unit was offered cheap and I'm not really that interested in macro photography beyond 1:1 magnification (which some would argue is NOT macro photography, but I'm not going there). I could acquire an M42 lens, but from my research, using an M42 to K-mount adapter to mount the bellows to the camera is problematic since with the bellows bracket, there is no way to get access to the cameras K-mount unlock button to remove it. Though I'm not sure why this is a problem because the bellows mount should still unscrew from the adapter, but I'm not taking any chances, just the same.
06-17-2022, 08:55 AM - 1 Like   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by dkpentax Quote
Even though Pentax sold bellows for decades they don't anymore, and never sold any with hookups for exposure or focus. What happened in photography that made bellows unwanted?
They seemed to go away with the AF camera era. I suspect that manufacturers couldn't make a bellows work with screw drive AF. and so the product was dropped. I don't recall ever seeing a bellows for Canon EF, even though it should have been fairly easy to incorporate. A ribbon cable from front to back would have done it, though it probably wouldn't have been pretty.
I think they just saw how few bellows they sold after good macro lenses came along and decided do not do it, especially with the aforementioned engineering issues.

Just for you though, a K1 mounted on a really nice bellows:



---------- Post added Jun 17th, 2022 at 09:59 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
While not offended by your proposed modifications, I'm surprised by the decision given what you say about possibly using extension tubes.

The entire point of a bellows to provide a much more powerful alternative to extension tubes as well as better control of subject distances and focus. Bellows beat extension tubes in two ways. First, bellows typically offer much more extension than can be done with tubes. Second, bellows offer much more flexibility and control in being able to rack-in or rack-out the exact amount of extension needed without the hassle of swapping different tubes in or out.

Perhaps I don't understand the necessity of removing the bellows to accomplish your goal.
It sounds like he is going to spend $60.00 and put a bunch of extra work into building something he could have bought premade to $20.00, thereby ensuring the $60.00 thing is no longer fit for purpose.
06-17-2022, 09:05 AM   #13
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Remember, the M 42 lenses focus goes to 1:2 on both of the 50 mm and 100 mm Macro lenses. To achieve true Macro, a third lens was needed ( Bellows Takumar, which has a preset lens), or another device was needed to get to 1:1. The later models did have a dual cable to provide stop down metering. All in all, the current lenses provide as good an image as the dedicated bellows lenses with much less fuss.


I still use the Bellows occasionally but the 1:1 magnification in most of the current lenses makes the process much easier.
06-17-2022, 09:41 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
It sounds like he is going to spend $60.00 and put a bunch of extra work into building something he could have bought premade to $20.00, thereby ensuring the $60.00 thing is no longer fit for purpose.
Please provide a link to this premade $20 item and maybe I won't have to modify the $60 item.
06-17-2022, 10:22 AM - 1 Like   #15
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Two possibilities:

Most bellows have a universal body with provisions for interchangeable lens and camera mount adapters. (Economical manufacturing.) If you don't have an OEM adapter you may find what you need by savaging from a defunct lens or body.



Epoxying adapters to a cheap bellows body can produce a unique, custom body if necessary. Since the bellows is adjustable, lens registration distance isn't critical.

If you don't have or want a bellows, a custom extension tube can be assembled. This one was made to use Pentax A110 lenses on a Q7 to include a slight extension effect. The body was from a cheap flashlight with plastic lens and body caps epoxied to it.The focusing rack is from a cannibalized bellows with the front mount inverted.

An old Spiratone hard-tube slide copier offers many scavengable parts and serves as a fixed 1:1 > 1:2 macro extension tube.




Last edited by pacerr; 06-17-2022 at 09:20 PM.
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