Please recommend a standard-ish APS-C lens

**mikesbike** · 06-27-2022, 03:23 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by sajith

.except price, size, and weight. Obviously we're not going to get everything we want, are we?

Well, we can- by getting both a fast, constant-aperture zoom lens AND the DA 20-40mm WR Ltd. With its compact and lightweight design, yet great construction with WR, it is the best easy-to-carry-with-high-quality all around zoom lens I've ever owned, AND ALSO a high-performing constant-aperture 16-18 to 50mm f/2.8 lens for times when its aperture capabilities, and in the case of the PLM lens, its faster AF, are needed. I have the compact Ltd lens most often on my KP. Then a Sigma 17-50mm f/2.8 EX DC HSM lens, which is bulkier and heaver than the 20-40mm Ltd, but less so than the new Pentax 16-50mm PLM, and fulfills faster aperture needs for me. I've been very happy with this lens. Some have reported some stuttering on the AF performance of this Sigma lens, but this has never happened on my KP. Then I also have (now for over 10 years), my highly-valued DA 18-135mm WR lens for when I need more zoom range and versatility with WR, yet compact for such range and can still deliver high quality imaging. This way, my needs are met according to the circumstances I will be dealing with.

Last edited by mikesbike; 06-27-2022 at 05:49 PM.

**RICHARD L.** · 06-27-2022, 04:13 PM - **1 Like**

A few images of Quebec City, if it helps ... taken with a K3 + DA 18-135 mm though

sajith · 06-27-2022, 05:18 PM

Originally posted by mikesbike

Well, we can- by getting both a fast, constant-aperture zoom lens AND the DA 20-40mm WR Ltd.

Oh, I meant to say that we can't get all the properties that we want (regarding price, size, weight, focusing, aperture, reliability, aesthetics... and something like a soul) packaged into one lens. We are required to make compromises. But why oh why?

Heart wants the 20-40mm Limited. Oh the looks of that lens!

Brain says that the 16-85mm should be the logical option. It is a proven workhorse that deserves respect. And it is wider on the wide end.

Wallet rejects the HD 16-50mm. For now, at least.

It is between the heart and the brain now. Sniff.

bigted · 06-27-2022, 05:42 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by sajith

Oh, I meant to say that we can't get all the properties that we want (regarding price, size, weight, focusing, aperture, reliability, aesthetics... and something like a soul) packaged into one lens. We are required to make compromises. But why oh why?

Heart wants the 20-40mm Limited. Oh the looks of that lens!

Brain says that the 16-85mm should be the logical option. It is a proven workhorse that deserves respect. And it is wider on the wide end.

Wallet rejects the HD 16-50mm. For now, at least.

It is between the heart and the brain now. Sniff.

I know it isn’t my money (and it is really easy to spend someone else’s money) but go with your heart. In your mind the other lens will alway be the one you bought because your head said buy it and chances are you’ll eventually buy the other one. If you go with what you really wanted it will satisfy your itch. I am not familiar with the different prices but just to complicate matters I really like my 18-135mm that came with my K-3. Good luck with your deliberations and have a fabulous trip. I loved Quebec City and the Atlantic Provinces are on my bucket list.

**mikesbike** · 06-27-2022, 06:08 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by sajith

ider coverage, I think, because I've been mostly using the other two lenses at their 16mm/18mm end. Maybe I could also get a 15mm lens to complement this one?

I do this all the time. When it comes to doing a lot of walking or especially if bicycling around, a compact carrying kit becomes very important. My HD DA 15mm Ltd lives in the front zipper accessory pocket of my holster-style belt-loop/ shoulder-strap camera case. It is so small one would not know it is there, and with yet room left for a spare battery, SD card, and more. It is a wonderful addition to a number of lens options being carried. I also carry the DA 70mm or FA 77mm Ltd in a pocket, in case I need more reach, and with excellent quality, of course. Getting such kits together usually takes time- one thing at a time, to be easier on the budget. But very satisfying in the end. Another way to extend the reach is with a 55-300mm WR lens, but then more carrying bulk comes with this much extension.

**AstroDave** · 06-27-2022, 06:30 PM - **1 Like**

Another vote for the 18-135, and perhaps something wider for backup if/when necessary.

wadge22 · 06-27-2022, 06:52 PM - **1 Like**

I only own the 18-135, and none of the three you are looking at. I, like so many others, find that one to be an excellent all around choice. Then again I personally am more likely to be at the 135 end than the 18. Another thing to speak for the 18-135 is that (if shopping used) you can probably get it plus one of the DA limited primes (especially SMC versions of 21, 40, or 70) for about the same price as just one of the other two you're looking at.

However, from what I've read and pictures I've seen posted, the 16-85 sounds like the right fit for you. The extra bit of wide angle coverage plus "something extra" optically are both covered, and it will be a very versatile all arounder.

Still, I would also say you probably can't go wrong with any of these choices.

**K2 to K50** · 06-27-2022, 09:19 PM - **1 Like**

I have been very happy with the 16-86mm.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/194265442@N08/52166716923/in/photostream/lightbox/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/194265442@N08/52068284696/in/photostream/lightbox/
PETE4428 | Rocks | Peter Wighton | Flickr
PETE4135 | A scene from the Maleny Botanical Gardens, croppe? | Flickr

**mikesbike** · 06-27-2022, 10:23 PM - **1 Like**

Not a thing wrong with choosing the DA 18-135mm, for sure as an all-around travel lens. Great for reducing the need for lens changing. Still compact, and its AF performance is well above average. As to very fine quality imaging, between about 18-70mm, where it can keep to f/3.5-4.5, if stopped down even just a little bit, it can deliver well even at the frame edges. The rest of the way it remains excellent in the central area, where the edges tend to become less important for most tele shots. In my case, that HD DA 15mm Ltd is still always there in the accessory pocket as well. The price of the DA 18-135mm is quite reasonable for its high performance level, versatile zoom range, and its above average build quality. This could help finance the addition of the HD DA 15mm Ltd!

Richard L certainly does provide here above some excellent examples of the quality this lens is capable of, and at varying FL settings. In good lighting, this presents the opportunity to stop it down even more to maximize quality, and to increase DOF.

However, I do understand the allure of the 20-40mm Ltd. Its being capable of f/2.8 at its short end is something other compact lenses do not offer, and can sometimes be important. I feel it especially goes well in its rather svelte compact but upscale build quality with my KP body, which is of like concept. They seem to fit very well together. But its quality will certainly complement any flagship model also.

timb64 · 06-28-2022, 12:13 AM - **1 Like**

Another very happy 16-85 user here.The extra 2mm at the wide end is noticeable.

**jersey** · 06-28-2022, 12:18 AM

If you want "this something" I think it will be hard to beat 20-40 Ltd. But if you want better lens with wider zoom range then I think 16-85 will be best choice. New 16-50 is really big and heavy lens and if you want walk-around lens, not gear for work I would avoid it.

Jonathan Mac · 06-28-2022, 01:51 AM - **1 Like**

The possibilities you've already selected are all good options. The new 16-50/2.8 PLM is undoubtedly the best standard zoom for APS-C (perhaps even across all brands) but is big and expensive but go for it if that's something you're OK with.

Of the other two options, I've owned both, at the same time, and I sold the 20-40mm. It's a wonderful lens - great image quality, quiet focus, small and light, it has that Limited feel despite being a zoom. However, from a practical point of view the 16-85mm does virtually everything the 20-40mm and does it better - more range at the wide end, more range at the long end, WR, and even better image quality. I think it loses out on build quality (based on the number of problems I've read about here on PF) and it's not metal, it's plastic, plus it can have moments when the AF just doesn't focus properly. Despite all of that I'd say that overall it's the more flexible option.

If you do want to look at Tamron and Sigma, they both make or made 17-50mm f/2.8 lenses. The Tamron is very good but make sure you get a good copy as there are a lot of reports of AF problems. The Sigma is excellent - superb image quality with the best rendering I've ever seen from a zoom, well-built, quiet AF. If you don't need WR and aren't willing to spend the $$$ on the Pentax 16-50mm then I'd certainly go for the Sigma.

**K(s)evin** · 06-28-2022, 02:32 AM

Not to be that guy, but you refer to both the 16-50 f2.8 PLM and the DA20-40 f2.8-4 as primes in the first 2 paragraphs. Sorry.

**FozzFoster** · 06-28-2022, 09:18 AM

Originally posted by K(s)evin

DA20-40 f2.8-4 as primes in the first 2 paragraphs. Sorry.

I think they are referring to the the optical qualities of these zooms "as if they were a stack of primes".
Primes are perceived as having a higher level of optical quality, so to refer to this zoom lens as a 'stack of primes' is just a compliment and not literal.
My read anyway....

wait... I think they may have had a typo....

**clickclick** · 06-28-2022, 10:52 AM - **2 Likes**

This is a hard choice. These are all very nice lenses with different things to bring to the table. The 16-85 is great for range and versatility. I gave my copy to my daughter, and I often want it back. ; ) My daily walk the dog kit has become a 15 LTD, 20-40 LTD, and 55-300 PLM. The walk includes a park bench overlooking a river with lots of nice bird action, so I find myself predominantly going between the 20-40 and 55-300, depending on where I am in the walk progress. The 15 gives me the wide when I want it. The build and feel and look of the 20-40 is the winner, and the pixie dust is strong. It's hard not to love this lens. I think what you will need to sort out is if you need more reach, and how do you get that. That's why I mention my kit with the PLM. That trio really covers quite a range, with each lens having a sweet spot of application.

06-27-2022, 10:23 PM - 1 Like	#24
mikesbike Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Southeastern Michigan Posts: 4,552	Not a thing wrong with choosing the DA 18-135mm, for sure as an all-around travel lens. Great for reducing the need for lens changing. Still compact, and its AF performance is well above average. As to very fine quality imaging, between about 18-70mm, where it can keep to f/3.5-4.5, if stopped down even just a little bit, it can deliver well even at the frame edges. The rest of the way it remains excellent in the central area, where the edges tend to become less important for most tele shots. In my case, that HD DA 15mm Ltd is still always there in the accessory pocket as well. The price of the DA 18-135mm is quite reasonable for its high performance level, versatile zoom range, and its above average build quality. This could help finance the addition of the HD DA 15mm Ltd! Richard L certainly does provide here above some excellent examples of the quality this lens is capable of, and at varying FL settings. In good lighting, this presents the opportunity to stop it down even more to maximize quality, and to increase DOF. However, I do understand the allure of the 20-40mm Ltd. Its being capable of f/2.8 at its short end is something other compact lenses do not offer, and can sometimes be important. I feel it especially goes well in its rather svelte compact but upscale build quality with my KP body, which is of like concept. They seem to fit very well together. But its quality will certainly complement any flagship model also. Last edited by mikesbike; 06-27-2022 at 10:42 PM.

06-28-2022, 01:51 AM - 1 Like	#27
Jonathan Mac Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 10,897	The possibilities you've already selected are all good options. The new 16-50/2.8 PLM is undoubtedly the best standard zoom for APS-C (perhaps even across all brands) but is big and expensive but go for it if that's something you're OK with. Of the other two options, I've owned both, at the same time, and I sold the 20-40mm. It's a wonderful lens - great image quality, quiet focus, small and light, it has that Limited feel despite being a zoom. However, from a practical point of view the 16-85mm does virtually everything the 20-40mm and does it better - more range at the wide end, more range at the long end, WR, and even better image quality. I think it loses out on build quality (based on the number of problems I've read about here on PF) and it's not metal, it's plastic, plus it can have moments when the AF just doesn't focus properly. Despite all of that I'd say that overall it's the more flexible option. If you do want to look at Tamron and Sigma, they both make or made 17-50mm f/2.8 lenses. The Tamron is very good but make sure you get a good copy as there are a lot of reports of AF problems. The Sigma is excellent - superb image quality with the best rendering I've ever seen from a zoom, well-built, quiet AF. If you don't need WR and aren't willing to spend the $$$ on the Pentax 16-50mm then I'd certainly go for the Sigma. Last edited by Jonathan Mac; 06-29-2022 at 07:41 AM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
"Standard" prime lens - 35mm equivalent in APS-C	Angelic Layer	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	43	03-13-2020 11:01 AM
52mm thread(ish) Budget(ish) Landscape Lens (on deal for BF/Cyber Monday)	BruceBanner	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	8	11-27-2016 07:42 PM
When is an APS-C lens not really an APS-C?	lightbox	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	17	03-27-2015 07:45 PM
best 18-50-ish standard zoom under $500 used	CPTenorII	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	14	09-10-2012 05:09 PM
DNG - The non standard standard	Lowell Goudge	Digital Processing, Software, and Printing	13	07-21-2009 05:02 AM

06-27-2022, 03:23 PM - 1 Like	#16
mikesbike Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Southeastern Michigan Posts: 4,552	Originally posted by sajith .except price, size, and weight. Obviously we're not going to get everything we want, are we? Well, we can- by getting both a fast, constant-aperture zoom lens AND the DA 20-40mm WR Ltd. With its compact and lightweight design, yet great construction with WR, it is the best easy-to-carry-with-high-quality all around zoom lens I've ever owned, AND ALSO a high-performing constant-aperture 16-18 to 50mm f/2.8 lens for times when its aperture capabilities, and in the case of the PLM lens, its faster AF, are needed. I have the compact Ltd lens most often on my KP. Then a Sigma 17-50mm f/2.8 EX DC HSM lens, which is bulkier and heaver than the 20-40mm Ltd, but less so than the new Pentax 16-50mm PLM, and fulfills faster aperture needs for me. I've been very happy with this lens. Some have reported some stuttering on the AF performance of this Sigma lens, but this has never happened on my KP. Then I also have (now for over 10 years), my highly-valued DA 18-135mm WR lens for when I need more zoom range and versatility with WR, yet compact for such range and can still deliver high quality imaging. This way, my needs are met according to the circumstances I will be dealing with. Last edited by mikesbike; 06-27-2022 at 05:49 PM.

06-27-2022, 04:13 PM - 1 Like	#17
RICHARD L. Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Quebec City, Quebec Posts: 6,583	A few images of Quebec City, if it helps ... taken with a K3 + DA 18-135 mm though

06-27-2022, 05:18 PM	#18
sajith New Member Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 23 Original Poster	Originally posted by mikesbike Well, we can- by getting both a fast, constant-aperture zoom lens AND the DA 20-40mm WR Ltd. Oh, I meant to say that we can't get all the properties that we want (regarding price, size, weight, focusing, aperture, reliability, aesthetics... and something like a soul) packaged into one lens. We are required to make compromises. But why oh why? Heart wants the 20-40mm Limited. Oh the looks of that lens! Brain says that the 16-85mm should be the logical option. It is a proven workhorse that deserves respect. And it is wider on the wide end. Wallet rejects the HD 16-50mm. For now, at least. It is between the heart and the brain now. Sniff.

06-27-2022, 05:42 PM - 1 Like	#19
bigted Moderator Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Jessica Lake, Whiteshell Provincial Park, or Winnipeg Manitoba, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,593	Originally posted by sajith Oh, I meant to say that we can't get all the properties that we want (regarding price, size, weight, focusing, aperture, reliability, aesthetics... and something like a soul) packaged into one lens. We are required to make compromises. But why oh why? Heart wants the 20-40mm Limited. Oh the looks of that lens! Brain says that the 16-85mm should be the logical option. It is a proven workhorse that deserves respect. And it is wider on the wide end. Wallet rejects the HD 16-50mm. For now, at least. It is between the heart and the brain now. Sniff. I know it isn’t my money (and it is really easy to spend someone else’s money) but go with your heart. In your mind the other lens will alway be the one you bought because your head said buy it and chances are you’ll eventually buy the other one. If you go with what you really wanted it will satisfy your itch. I am not familiar with the different prices but just to complicate matters I really like my 18-135mm that came with my K-3. Good luck with your deliberations and have a fabulous trip. I loved Quebec City and the Atlantic Provinces are on my bucket list.

06-27-2022, 06:08 PM - 1 Like	#20
mikesbike Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Southeastern Michigan Posts: 4,552	Originally posted by sajith ider coverage, I think, because I've been mostly using the other two lenses at their 16mm/18mm end. Maybe I could also get a 15mm lens to complement this one? I do this all the time. When it comes to doing a lot of walking or especially if bicycling around, a compact carrying kit becomes very important. My HD DA 15mm Ltd lives in the front zipper accessory pocket of my holster-style belt-loop/ shoulder-strap camera case. It is so small one would not know it is there, and with yet room left for a spare battery, SD card, and more. It is a wonderful addition to a number of lens options being carried. I also carry the DA 70mm or FA 77mm Ltd in a pocket, in case I need more reach, and with excellent quality, of course. Getting such kits together usually takes time- one thing at a time, to be easier on the budget. But very satisfying in the end. Another way to extend the reach is with a 55-300mm WR lens, but then more carrying bulk comes with this much extension.

06-27-2022, 06:30 PM - 1 Like	#21
AstroDave Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: May 2007 Location: Flagstaff, Arizona Posts: 1,637	Another vote for the 18-135, and perhaps something wider for backup if/when necessary.

06-27-2022, 06:52 PM - 1 Like	#22
wadge22 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: NE Ohio Photos: Albums Posts: 897	I only own the 18-135, and none of the three you are looking at. I, like so many others, find that one to be an excellent all around choice. Then again I personally am more likely to be at the 135 end than the 18. Another thing to speak for the 18-135 is that (if shopping used) you can probably get it plus one of the DA limited primes (especially SMC versions of 21, 40, or 70) for about the same price as just one of the other two you're looking at. However, from what I've read and pictures I've seen posted, the 16-85 sounds like the right fit for you. The extra bit of wide angle coverage plus "something extra" optically are both covered, and it will be a very versatile all arounder. Still, I would also say you probably can't go wrong with any of these choices.

06-27-2022, 09:19 PM - 1 Like	#23
K2 to K50 Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: Ipswich QLD Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,795	I have been very happy with the 16-86mm. https://www.flickr.com/photos/194265442@N08/52166716923/in/photostream/lightbox/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/194265442@N08/52068284696/in/photostream/lightbox/ PETE4428 \| Rocks \| Peter Wighton \| Flickr PETE4135 \| A scene from the Maleny Botanical Gardens, croppe? \| Flickr

06-28-2022, 12:13 AM - 1 Like	#25
timb64 Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: /Situation : Doing my best to avoid idiots! Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,510	Another very happy 16-85 user here.The extra 2mm at the wide end is noticeable.

06-28-2022, 12:18 AM	#26
jersey Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: 3City agglomeration Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,056	If you want "this something" I think it will be hard to beat 20-40 Ltd. But if you want better lens with wider zoom range then I think 16-85 will be best choice. New 16-50 is really big and heavy lens and if you want walk-around lens, not gear for work I would avoid it.

06-28-2022, 02:32 AM	#28
K(s)evin Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Colorado Posts: 476	Not to be that guy, but you refer to both the 16-50 f2.8 PLM and the DA20-40 f2.8-4 as primes in the first 2 paragraphs. Sorry.

06-28-2022, 09:18 AM	#29
FozzFoster Custom User Title Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Alberta Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806	Originally posted by K(s)evin DA20-40 f2.8-4 as primes in the first 2 paragraphs. Sorry. I think they are referring to the the optical qualities of these zooms "as if they were a stack of primes". Primes are perceived as having a higher level of optical quality, so to refer to this zoom lens as a 'stack of primes' is just a compliment and not literal. My read anyway.... wait... I think they may have had a typo....

06-28-2022, 10:52 AM - 2 Likes	#30
clickclick Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: May 2016 Location: East Coast Posts: 2,903	This is a hard choice. These are all very nice lenses with different things to bring to the table. The 16-85 is great for range and versatility. I gave my copy to my daughter, and I often want it back. ; ) My daily walk the dog kit has become a 15 LTD, 20-40 LTD, and 55-300 PLM. The walk includes a park bench overlooking a river with lots of nice bird action, so I find myself predominantly going between the 20-40 and 55-300, depending on where I am in the walk progress. The 15 gives me the wide when I want it. The build and feel and look of the 20-40 is the winner, and the pixie dust is strong. It's hard not to love this lens. I think what you will need to sort out is if you need more reach, and how do you get that. That's why I mention my kit with the PLM. That trio really covers quite a range, with each lens having a sweet spot of application.