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08-13-2022, 05:47 PM - 1 Like   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Naj90 Quote
Thanks again ChristianRock for your valuable advise!

---------- Post added 08-13-22 at 10:08 AM ----------



Hey Stevejo, I indeed own a 18-55mm. I thought I should get myself a 50mm prime lens as I saw people saying those are better quality. And indeed the Pentax bug is making me search for these lenses already haha!
At this point, as usual, we have reached the point of defining “good”.
A prime lens will usually produce sharper images and opens to wider apertures, and is less flexible.
Personally, I would prefer a wider prime if I were to use one.
I began with a 45mm lens on a 35mm rangefinder.
A comparable view would be provided by a 28mm or 31mm lens for “APS-C”.

08-13-2022, 05:55 PM - 1 Like   #17
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Besides condition and price you need to determine how much more shopping you're willing to do to try and save $x, time is money as they say, and opportunity costs in terms of usage between now and the time you find one later that fits your price point. It's a decent little lens, I got one included with the KP and I'm using it a little more now even though I prefer my adapted M645 55 2.8 because it's manual.
08-13-2022, 07:39 PM - 1 Like   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Naj90 Quote
Hello dear photographers. I'm new to photography and bought myself a secondhand K10D to practice with.

I was advised in a previous thread to buy a Pentax autofocus 50mm lens. I found one in good state (so it says) for 75 euro/dollar. Would this be a good investment or should I find it for cheaper you'd say? I use a local website from the Netherlands and don't want to use eBay.

Many thanks!
As to whether this is a good price depends on your location. From the comments given, and if the lens is in top condition, it does seem to be a good value. Since you already have the DA 18-55mm kit lens, perhaps even the one having WR construction, acquiring a good "fast" prime lens to provide what the kit lens cannot, and at a low price, is a common recommendation and a good one. By "fast", this refers to having a large aperture available to let more light in. A smaller number means a larger aperture, which can provide faster shutter speeds for hand-held shots in lower lighting while keeping down the need to boost ISO. 50mm prime lenses offer those available at the lowest prices with the largest apertures. A 50mm f/1.8 lens could provide at least 8x the shutter speed compared to your DA 18-55mm lens at its wide-open maximum f/5.6 aperture at 50mm, under the same lighting at the same ISO setting. In addition to dealing with shooting in lower lighting, having yet higher shutter speeds available, even in better lighting, will also allow you to "freeze" action for better clarity with faster-moving subjects.

This lens's 50mm focal length (FL) is a good one for numerous uses, but noteworthy in being a good portrait lens when used on cameras with APS-C size sensors, where again its f/1.8 aperture can be of great value. In addition to faster shutter speeds, the larger aperture in the process also reduces depth-of-field (DOF), which in some cases is a necessary tradeoff, but in other cases such as doing portraits it can be an important advantage. DOF means how much or little of the background and foreground behind and in front of your main subject will be sharp. By being able to reduce DOF, you can control how much blur you can create behind your subject to make the subject stand out more from it. This lens will provide far more control for this purpose than your DA 18-55mm possibly could. And there are subjects other than portraits where this factor can be used to great effect.

Different camera and lens types have different advantages and disadvantages. In the case of 50mm lenses used as above with DSLR cameras having APS-C size sensors, as does the K10D, the advantages above are of particular benefit that arise from use with these cameras, as you get a larger picture in your frame when shooting at the same distance compared to using 35mm film cameras or a very expensive full-frame (FF) DSLR having the same size (24 x 36mm) sensor as a 35mm film frame. To get the same size image in the frame of a FF camera, a longer FL lens would have to be used, say for portraits, etc. a "fast" aperture prime of around 70-85mm, like the Pentax FA 77mm f/1.8 Limited- a great lens, but very expensive. Not in the same quality league as the FA 77mm Limited, the DA 50mm f/1.8 or other such "fast" but reasonably-priced 50mm prime lenses on APS-C cameras are said to be the "poor man's" version of what the FA 77mm Limited on FF cameras would be. Not in the same quality league, but they still do a very nice job.

Prime lenses of other FL designs have their particular uses as well, as others have pointed out.

Last edited by mikesbike; 08-14-2022 at 01:05 AM.
08-14-2022, 12:21 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Naj90 Quote
Hello dear photographers. I'm new to photography and bought myself a secondhand K10D to practice with.

I was advised in a previous thread to buy a Pentax autofocus 50mm lens. I found one in good state (so it says) for 75 euro/dollar. Would this be a good investment or should I find it for cheaper you'd say? I use a local website from the Netherlands and don't want to use eBay.
The DA18-55 zoom you already have is nothing special at all, if not the MKII Version or the DA-L or WR. The early version with came with the K10D is really outdated.

But you can use it to find out with focal length is better suited to your needs.
18mm is good for landscape and if you need wider, then a good sample of a DA 16-45/f4,0 ED is worth considering.
It is far superior to any kitlens but you must check that it doesn't wobble too much.
It does wobble anyway due to its construction but pictures should be evenly sharp throughout the periphery, if one side is less sharp then send it back!
A focal length of 35mm is as others said the equivalent of 50mm on fullframe or a analog filmcamera, the DA35/2,4 is a very good and cheap lens.
But the DA50/1,8 is faster, i.e. you can take photos in lowlight situations the DA35 with a few stops less (2,4) can't.
And as Christian said, the F50/1,7 is quite a bit better except maybe bokeh, because the DA50/1,8 has 7 rounded blades, the F50/1,7 has 6 blades and not rounded! I personally would not care much about this difference.


Of course you won't have the benefit of a fast lens with the DA16-45/4 but it is f4 throughout and it can 1:4 macro at 45mm
But it is sharp wide open (at least my sample which is one of the few zooms I use)
From 20-40mm it is almost as good as the DA20-40/2,8 ltd which of course is much better manufactured.

I had a long conversation with one of the best engineers repairing Pentax-lenses in the USA. He knew the FA31ltd inside out, as well as the legendary K28/2 (a Zeiss-design). He told me that the DA16-45 is a floated design like the others, something quite difficult to achieve with a Zoom
and that this lens was a real masterpiece. Then I got 2 samples of it, one was NOS (new old stock) and I love it. I kept one sample, the other is used by one of my sons.

The only lens which I feel is as good but with a wider range and faster is the Sigma 17-70/2,8-4 DC Macro HSM Contemporary, a very good lens but expensive (and more weight)


Buying from dealers over Amazon or ebay is not really risky because you can send it back (by law) within 14 days.
But you have to pay the shippingcosts, this has changed within the EU.

08-14-2022, 02:38 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikesbike Quote
As to whether this is a good price depends on your location. From the comments given, and if the lens is in top condition, it does seem to be a good value. Since you already have the DA 18-55mm kit lens, perhaps even the one having WR construction, acquiring a good "fast" prime lens to provide what the kit lens cannot, and at a low price, is a common recommendation and a good one. By "fast", this refers to having a large aperture available to let more light in. (...) Not in the same quality league as the FA 77mm Limited, the DA 50mm f/1.8 or other such "fast" but reasonably-priced 50mm prime lenses on APS-C cameras are said to be the "poor man's" version of what the FA 77mm Limited on FF cameras would be. Not in the same quality league, but they still do a very nice job.

Prime lenses of other FL designs have their particular uses as well, as others have pointed out.
Haha I mean, I guess I'm looking for "poor man's" lenses and cameras at the moment. Maybe at some point I will be able to afford some better ones . And many thanks for the valuable advise mikesbike!

---------- Post added 08-14-22 at 02:43 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by photogem Quote
The DA18-55 zoom you already have is nothing special at all, if not the MKII Version or the DA-L or WR. The early version with came with the K10D is really outdated.

(...)
But the DA50/1,8 is faster, i.e. you can take photos in lowlight situations the DA35 with a few stops less (2,4) can't.
And as Christian said, the F50/1,7 is quite a bit better except maybe bokeh, because the DA50/1,8 has 7 rounded blades, the F50/1,7 has 6 blades and not rounded! I personally would not care much about this difference.

(...)
I had a long conversation with one of the best engineers repairing Pentax-lenses in the USA. He knew the FA31ltd inside out, as well as the legendary K28/2 (a Zeiss-design). He told me that the DA16-45 is a floated design like the others, something quite difficult to achieve with a Zoom
and that this lens was a real masterpiece. Then I got 2 samples of it, one was NOS (new old stock) and I love it. I kept one sample, the other is used by one of my sons.

The only lens which I feel is as good but with a wider range and faster is the Sigma 17-70/2,8-4 DC Macro HSM Contemporary, a very good lens but expensive (and more weight)

Buying from dealers over Amazon or ebay is not really risky because you can send it back (by law) within 14 days.
But you have to pay the shippingcosts, this has changed within the EU.
Very interesting, thank you for sharing your knowledge photogem. I'm learning a lot on this forum. And I may try ebay then, as our local Dutch site does not offer this (14 days) from what I know, except if it's not as advertised maybe.
08-14-2022, 04:00 AM - 2 Likes   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by ZombieArmy Quote
I'm assuming that they're more expensive over there then? In the US they're about 116 USD new.
Yes, most gear is more expensive and the reason for that is that we have better/longer warranty. We have at least two years of full warranty and then we have extra possibilties as a result of legislation concerning consumer's rights. I believe that over there you have only one year. As the risk of fulfilling the warranty in Europe is higher due to the longer period of warranty and additional warranty the consumer has to pay extra for covering that risk.
08-14-2022, 04:20 AM - 1 Like   #22
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Advice sounding like a advertisment slogan

QuoteOriginally posted by Naj90 Quote
Very interesting, thank you for sharing your knowledge photogem. I'm learning a lot on this forum. And I may try ebay then, as our local Dutch site does not offer this (14 days) from what I know, except if it's not as advertised maybe
If you buy through a webshop of a dealer you have the right to send it back within 14 days of receiving the item. As it is within the whole EU. It is called consumer's rights. It is a bit different when buying from a non commercial party, such as a private person, then these rules do not apply. If you buy through ebay you can come across private sellers and you have no right to send it back as they usually state in the offer. If it does not comply with what they described/promised you can only turn to ebay with a complaint and hope you get your money back. Amazon is a bit safer in that respect.
If you buy from a webshop look for the "thuiswinkel waarborg" icon (in the Netherlands), then you know that you have the legal right to send it back and get your money refunded. Second, use a creditcard to buy from a webshop, because you are better protected and they always have an insurance for at least six months if your purchase gets lost or stolen. It is also easier to get your money refunded. Contrary to what the Dutch banks make you believe "Ideal payments" are not safe, because once paid and the seller does not deliver, you have lost your money. The only bank that has a better guarding in that respect is SNS bank, who gives you a protection for three months if goods are not delivered.
Hope this helps. Whether on Amazon or Ebay or a local webshop, in all cases it is better to use a credit card for your own safety.

08-14-2022, 06:18 AM - 1 Like   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
Only if it's in excellent condition. I see them going for 50-60.
The DA50/1,8 is more expensive in the EU, outside the EU but Europe even more so (new or used)

So comparing US prices isn't useful.
Right now from Ricoh EU, Amazon.de and Amazon France it is € 179 new and € 120 used (but selected) from Amazon warehouse-dealers (so with the right to return). (DA35/2,4 is € 195,51!) Cheaper on Amazon UK but the you pay VAT + custom-handling fees + high shippingcosts. Since Brexit

if you purchase anything on ebay UK from outside UK, you pay right away those costs. Not worth it anymore. Particular if something goes wrong and you have to send it back, you'll have a hard struggle to get VAT back, worse handling fees are lost then.
08-14-2022, 08:44 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by AfterPentax Mark II Quote
If you buy through a webshop of a dealer you have the right to send it back within 14 days of receiving the item. As it is within the whole EU. It is called consumer's rights. It is a bit different when buying from a non commercial party, such as a private person, then these rules do not apply. If you buy through ebay you can come across private sellers and you have no right to send it back as they usually state in the offer. If it does not comply with what they described/promised you can only turn to ebay with a complaint and hope you get your money back. Amazon is a bit safer in that respect.
If you buy from a webshop look for the "thuiswinkel waarborg" icon (in the Netherlands), then you know that you have the legal right to send it back and get your money refunded. Second, use a creditcard to buy from a webshop, because you are better protected and they always have an insurance for at least six months if your purchase gets lost or stolen. It is also easier to get your money refunded. Contrary to what the Dutch banks make you believe "Ideal payments" are not safe, because once paid and the seller does not deliver, you have lost your money. The only bank that has a better guarding in that respect is SNS bank, who gives you a protection for three months if goods are not delivered.
Hope this helps. Whether on Amazon or Ebay or a local webshop, in all cases it is better to use a credit card for your own safety.
Thanks for the tips, I'll keep it in mind. Yes unfortunately it doesn't offer any protection. However, payments now go through Marktplaats.nl and you can get some buyer's protection I think. It's something
08-14-2022, 09:02 AM - 1 Like   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Naj90 Quote
Thanks for the tips, I'll keep it in mind. Yes unfortunately it doesn't offer any protection. However, payments now go through Marktplaats.nl and you can get some buyer's protection I think. It's something
A little warning: Look closely at pictures at Marktplaats.nl, because people selling stuff always claim it is as good as new and most of the time when I look at pictures the lenses and camera's look like they have been used for other things than taking pictures. It is narrowly based on the Ebay rules. And I for one will not buy from Marktplaats.nl, too many risks. Especially when the seller or buyer will come to your door.
08-15-2022, 02:23 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by AfterPentax Mark II Quote
A little warning: Look closely at pictures at Marktplaats.nl, because people selling stuff always claim it is as good as new and most of the time when I look at pictures the lenses and camera's look like they have been used for other things than taking pictures. It is narrowly based on the Ebay rules. And I for one will not buy from Marktplaats.nl, too many risks. Especially when the seller or buyer will come to your door.
I will take this into consideration when buying. Usually I read the reviews of other people and see how many stars they gave and how many people. I found one where the guy has about 770 reviews, of which 100 5-star. I think I'll take the chance!

Last edited by Naj90; 08-15-2022 at 02:45 AM.
08-18-2022, 05:06 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by AfterPentax Mark II Quote
Yes, most gear is more expensive and the reason for that is that we have better/longer warranty. We have at least two years of full warranty and then we have extra possibilties as a result of legislation concerning consumer's rights. I believe that over there you have only one year. As the risk of fulfilling the warranty in Europe is higher due to the longer period of warranty and additional warranty the consumer has to pay extra for covering that risk.
I'm sure there's more to it than a mere year of warranty on a product that likely has low RMA rates.
08-18-2022, 11:59 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by ZombieArmy Quote
I'm sure there's more to it than a mere year of warranty on a product that likely has low RMA rates.
What are low RMA rates? Warranty claims related to sales?
If so, how would that affect warranty if the product is past its warranty?
08-19-2022, 02:07 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by photogem Quote
What are low RMA rates? Warranty claims related to sales?
If so, how would that affect warranty if the product is past its warranty?
My point is 1 year extra on a warranty wouldn't increase sales price much.
08-19-2022, 02:38 AM - 1 Like   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by ZombieArmy Quote
My point is 1 year extra on a warranty wouldn't increase sales price much.
Prices in USA are pretty low compared to EU or Switzerland.

But in the USA you have very low Sales Tax Rates
In average as low as in Switzerland (7,7%) and the max. of it quite similar to Australia.

This is the equivalent of VAT in the EU, Germany 19%, France 20% (similar to UK). Netherlands is 21%, Sweden 25%!


I think 2 years warranty would mean higher prices.
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