[biz-engineer]

I tend to zone in to the deep end (complicated stuff) and loose sight of all the simple stuff.

I remember a quote from Raymond Depardon of Magnum Photo: "complicated" doesn't always lead to good results, and sometimes the easiest shots give the best photos.

[kayasaman]

I remember a quote from Raymond Depardon of Magnum Photo: "complicated" doesn't always lead to good results, and sometimes the easiest shots give the best photos.

~Biz, I wasn't referring to photo's. I was referring to my brain and how I over process information at an incredible rate. That's why it leads to stuff like not being able to relax or sleep easily and causes things such as panic and anxiety. It's just a neurological miswire, think Johnny5 back from the 80's. Lightning scrambled the poor little guys circuits and eventually he fried
Something similar to that.... haha

---------- Post added 08-15-22 at 06:16 PM ----------

Ok so I have some test shots as precursor and prerequisite for what I'm looking for.

Earlier it rained so hard that it was a no brainer to go and try and see if I could at least catch some water streaks under low light conditions.

Before I continue though, I just wana ask if it's possible to capture rain using a zoom lens? Also what do the properties of the lens need to be, to be able to bring this out? It seems that sharpness is a blanket term but can also mean micro and local contrast, color rendition etc...

Ages ago I did perform a test in the backyard to determine if I could catch the water droplets. Sure thing, the Irix was able to grab them. I can't recall if I tried with the Samyang but anyway, the DFA 28-105mm wasn't able to see anything. I grabbed the shutter speeds off the net and played around a little myself. I found 1/1000s, ~1/540s, 1/200s / 1/250s and 1/20-60s to be good values.

Now, these are 3 second exposures and it was pouring down! Unfortunately I don't see anything that really shows me that outside is raining like crazy, other EXIF values are f/8 and ISO 100:







There is no problem with the sharpness of the lens, but perhaps my issue is somewhere else. Maybe in the contrast region? The subtle details are lacking I think?? It's a little difficult to explain when I haven't figured out what it is in the first place, but most likely is contrast....

A little later in the evening from yesterday. This is quite an unfair comparison given the different sensor size and pixel pitch of both cameras. I'll start with the K1 and DFA @105mm. For me it comes in second after the Sigma 105mm macro. The exposure was 10s shorter then the Nikon being 20s @f/8 and ISO 100:



In the above image, you can make out some information written on the tire when magnified to 100% but a lot of the rest is blurred.



The diffraction spikes from the LED lamp post are a little smudgy - though I'm just nitpicking here. The bark of the tree is crisp and clear.


Here's the Sigma 105mm test. At 100% the details are a lot clearer then either of the zooms. I should have tested my Irix too but didn't:





The fine details are there, another words in areas like the tire where there is writing got smudged out using the DFA and Nikkor zooms.

Below you'll see the worst performer as the fine details in the tire are smudged and in addition the bark on the tree is smudged when zoomed to 100%. Again same imaging settings - 30s shutter, ISO 100 and f/8 with zoom set to 105mm:






So, if this is the case, what are my options? I know most people wouldn't worry about it but it will bug me if I don't have fully granular rendition.

I was thinking perhaps to look at something like the Tokina ATX Pro 28-70 f/2.8 for Pentax K mount. Currently there are a few available from Japanese sellers on Ebay for quite decent prices, though put customs duty on top and you're talking about a bit more (maybe double). Around $170 is pretty decent ex. tax!

I know Tokina have a reputation for making very crisp and clear lenses, I'm not sure if it has weather sealing but many reviews claim that the Tokinas have better build quality then most modern lenses as they're still metal on the outside rather then plastic.

Some examples can be seen here, ok these were done on Nikon and not Pentax: Tokina AT-X 287 AF PRO SV (AF 28-70mm f/2.8) sample photo - NPXMgXSLeK - ExploreCams

It seems the 17-35mm for Nikon F mount does have weather sealing and on APS-C would give me around 26mm to 53.6mm, it's also a constant f/4.

This thing looks pretty insane in terms of rendering: Tokina AT-X 17-35mm F4 Pro FX sample photos - ExploreCams

Another option could be the Sigma ART 18-35mm. Again, a fantastic lens but unfortunately no weather sealing it seems, as I couldn't find any information on it.

Samples from that are these: Sigma 18-35mm F1.8 DC HSM Art sample photos - ExploreCams

Many portraits though and not as many landscape/nighttime shots, from the link above. There is one sample of a night shot done on a Nikon D5300 which is incredible but you have to scroll down a little. Hmm... I maybe able to link back here:

https://drscdn.500px.org/photo/205792177/m%3D1600_k%3D1_a%3D1/757ea5ba10935108d7789967310db6bd

This was done using a D7200 Nikon:

https://drscdn.500px.org/photo/205486873/m%3D1600_k%3D1_a%3D1/184445aa6021cd09532f5f7f73b27ccd


It's such a shame that these lenses aren't available from Pentax K mount


Though if I can get this type of clarity with the old Tokina for K mount, then that might be the direction to go as it is actually quite cheap.

[kayasaman]

Just found this which was shot on a Pentax KP:

https://drscdn.500px.org/photo/203310367/m%3D1600_k%3D1_a%3D1/6efd39ea13b1fdceb9022fbd3538006e

using the Sigma ART 18-35mm, according to ExploreCams. How was this done? I thought Sigma didn't make Pentax mount lenses any more? Totally confused with this one!! But the image is incredible!

[gatorguy]

Just found this which was shot on a Pentax KP:

https://drscdn.500px.org/photo/203310367/m%3D1600_k%3D1_a%3D1/6efd39ea13b1fdceb9022fbd3538006e

using the Sigma ART 18-35mm, according to ExploreCams. How was this done? I thought Sigma didn't make Pentax mount lenses any more? Totally confused with this one!! But the image is incredible!

I have and use the Sigma 18-35 with my K3III. It's a good lens.

[kayasaman]

I have and use the Sigma 18-35 with my K3III. It's a good lens.

I didn't know it was even available for Pentax. There is no indication on the Sigma website at all... oh wait, yes there is! Under mounts it shows up as Pentax K. Probably missed it because the lens is APS-C and was looking at full frame always before my Nikon D500.

Thanks a lot for the input!

As I was under the impression that Sigma didn't do K mounts any more I thought this was only for Sgima and CaNikon cameras.




The Tokina 28-70mm I found on ebay, is this one judging from the images of the Ebay seller:

Tokina AT-X Pro 28-70mm F2.6-2.8 Lens Reviews - Tokina Lenses - Pentax Lens Review Database

Though it's advertised as the ATX-Pro 28-70 f2.8 which is a little confusing

[kayasaman]

Guys... here's some more astro. Hopefully I will get to attempt more during my trip and am definitely looking forward to it if it happens:

These were all done using the FA*300mm while the last one was done using the Irix 150mm. I think the FA*300 is a little soft, it's sharp but probably lacks the local and/or micro contrast that the Irix has - it's my best way of explaining it outside of saying that it lacks the certain "pop" of the Irix or Samyang lenses that I have. I also need a Bahtinov mask to help with focusing, that is definitely a contributing factor for many occasions!

Anyway, please enjoy them

[UncleVanya]

I didn't know it was even available for Pentax. There is no indication on the Sigma website at all... oh wait, yes there is! Under mounts it shows up as Pentax K. Probably missed it because the lens is APS-C and was looking at full frame always before my Nikon D500.

Thanks a lot for the input!

As I was under the impression that Sigma didn't do K mounts any more I thought this was only for Sgima and CaNikon cameras.

Sigma might no longer manufacture and sell the 18-35/1.8 in K mount. It is likely that they will stop making it altogether - as they are concentrating on mirrorless designs and this is from an SLR design. Additionally - on at least Nikon and Pentax - the lens has a reputation for being hard to get AF to work accurately with. I was super excited for the lens when it was announced and quickly went cold on the idea.

RE: 28-105 rain streaks - without seeing pictures from other lenses made at the same time at the same focal length that show streaks I can't say what's up. Lighting is very important - and metering as well. Here's a shot made on my SONY a7RIII this week that isn't rain but includes moving droplets - side lighting from sunlight was important to capture this:



I don't own the 28-105 or K1 so I can't directly comment. I can try something on my KP with any of my lenses next week if it rains. I suggest finding a streetlight that you can shoot to the side of to see if the light will help.

[kayasaman]

Sigma might no longer manufacture and sell the 18-35/1.8 in K mount. It is likely that they will stop making it altogether - as they are concentrating on mirrorless designs and this is from an SLR design. Additionally - on at least Nikon and Pentax - the lens has a reputation for being hard to get AF to work accurately with. I was super excited for the lens when it was announced and quickly went cold on the idea.

RE: 28-105 rain streaks - without seeing pictures from other lenses made at the same time at the same focal length that show streaks I can't say what's up. Lighting is very important - and metering as well. Here's a shot made on my SONY a7RIII this week that isn't rain but includes moving droplets - side lighting from sunlight was important to capture this:



I don't own the 28-105 or K1 so I can't directly comment. I can try something on my KP with any of my lenses next week if it rains. I suggest finding a streetlight that you can shoot to the side of to see if the light will help.

Thanks for the sample. Wow, you have a great location there

I'm not too worried about AF on the Pentax as I'll probably mostly use the K1_2 with LV and focus peaking. The Nikon is another issue as it's very difficult to focus manually unless using the view finder with focus distance gauge. The LV on the Nikon has no Focus Peaking and only 10x magnification. I was told that the previous gen K3 not sure if original or mark 2 also had something like this.
No idea on the K3 but from the D500 perspective, it's pretty much unusable!

Here's the Irix 150mm in all it's glory:



EXIF is 1/640s shutter, ISO 400 and f/2.8


Here is the Samyang 24mm just doing it's thing in total darkness apart from Bortle9+ whitewash skies



EXIF is 30s shutter, ISO 400 and f/8

When I cross compare this type of shot with my DFA28-105mm I get disappointed as I'm unable to notice the type of pop this has regarding the fine detail.


Earlier I was checking out Ebay and found a store in Japan which has a vast variety of Tokina and other glass. Prices ranging from $100-200 per lens. Some copies even less. I'm not sure if this is dedicated camera shop as they are selling other stuff too like Tamagochi's for some reason.

What I did find was these lenses:

Tokina ATX 28-70 f/2.8 - I think it's the f/2.6 to 2.8 model though as I linked it above for Pentax.


They also have the Tokina 12-28 f/4: Tokina AT-X 12-28mm F4 Pro DX sample photo - qGlKDzhIHb - ExploreCams

another seriously impressive lens from what I see there!

They even have the Tokina 400mm for both Pentax and Nikon: Tokina SD 400mm f/5.6 ED sample photos - ExploreCams

Could be a good astro lens, will have to check that out!


I'll need to get in touch with the store but it seems I can grab all those for the price of a Sigma ART 18-35mm or the Tokina ATX 17-35 f/4 which looks seriously impressive: Tokina AT-X 17-35mm F4 Pro FX sample photos - ExploreCams

Not sure if they have the 17-35 as well but again will need to ask what they suggest for low light and if they maybe can give me a deal.


You know, just off topic slightly regarding my trip, we checked out places we used to go back in the 1980s and 1990s and it seems that they ruined the whole area. To start with the tourism sector has exploded with hotels and holiday villas mushrooming. Tour guides are even claiming the area not worth visiting as it's become a dump in terms of trash and the sea became totally muddy and filled with garbage. It's such a shame for what was essentially where I spent around 15 years of my life during summer vacations. But now I'm just starting to get frustrated additionally as I really wana go and explore the map markings above with a car and a camera. If only it was easy to get to a photogenic location without having to drive for 8+ hours or fly

---------- Post added 08-16-22 at 03:17 PM ----------

Thanks for the sample. Wow, you have a great location there

I'm not too worried about AF on the Pentax as I'll probably mostly use the K1_2 with LV and focus peaking. The Nikon is another issue as it's very difficult to focus manually unless using the view finder with focus distance gauge. The LV on the Nikon has no Focus Peaking and only 10x magnification. I was told that the previous gen K3 not sure if original or mark 2 also had something like this.
No idea on the K3 but from the D500 perspective, it's pretty much unusable!

Here's the Irix 150mm in all it's glory:



EXIF is 1/640s shutter, ISO 400 and f/2.8


Here is the Samyang 24mm just doing it's thing in total darkness apart from Bortle9+ whitewash skies



EXIF is 30s shutter, ISO 400 and f/8

When I cross compare this type of shot with my DFA28-105mm I get disappointed as I'm unable to notice the type of pop this has regarding the fine detail.


Earlier I was checking out Ebay and found a store in Japan which has a vast variety of Tokina and other glass. Prices ranging from $100-200 per lens. Some copies even less. I'm not sure if this is dedicated camera shop as they are selling other stuff too like Tamagochi's for some reason.

What I did find was these lenses:

Tokina ATX 28-70 f/2.8 - I think it's the f/2.6 to 2.8 model though as I linked it above for Pentax.


They also have the Tokina 12-28 f/4: Tokina AT-X 12-28mm F4 Pro DX sample photo - qGlKDzhIHb - ExploreCams

another seriously impressive lens from what I see there!

They even have the Tokina 400mm for both Pentax and Nikon: Tokina SD 400mm f/5.6 ED sample photos - ExploreCams

Could be a good astro lens, will have to check that out!


I'll need to get in touch with the store but it seems I can grab all those for the price of a Sigma ART 18-35mm or the Tokina ATX 17-35 f/4 which looks seriously impressive: Tokina AT-X 17-35mm F4 Pro FX sample photos - ExploreCams

Not sure if they have the 17-35 as well but again will need to ask what they suggest for low light and if they maybe can give me a deal.


You know, just off topic slightly regarding my trip, we checked out places we used to go back in the 1980s and 1990s and it seems that they ruined the whole area. To start with the tourism sector has exploded with hotels and holiday villas mushrooming. Tour guides are even claiming the area not worth visiting as it's become a dump in terms of trash and the sea became totally muddy and filled with garbage. It's such a shame for what was essentially where I spent around 15 years of my life during summer vacations. But now I'm just starting to get frustrated additionally as I really wana go and explore the map markings above with a car and a camera. If only it was easy to get to a photogenic location without having to drive for 8+ hours or fly

Yep this seller seems to have quite a few copies of the Tokina 17-35mm f/4 too for mainly Canon but a few Nikon samples additionally.

[RICHARD L.]

[kayasaman]

Nice pics!! Long time no see, hope you've been doing well

Yah, I agree, the flakes are bigger then drops. Problem is that in my location we don't get snow. Maybe if we're lucky we get around half a days worth in a year and that's it

[RICHARD L.]

Hello,

Yes, I'm doing good. Too bad you never see snow. Try using a longer exposure time with a Polarizer or a Neutral Density filter to capture the movement of raindrops. Backlighting or sidelighting will surely affect the picture visually.

Best Regards


Starting to rain

[UncleVanya]

More “raindrops” (waterfall)


DSC01334_DxO by -vanya_42nd-

[kayasaman]

Yeah the right lens can do wonders!

So, in the meantime I messaged the ebay seller about 5 potential lenses. Considering that he seems to have multiple copies of the same lens priced differently but not described why... it might just be a language thing especially if using a translator. It will be a while till I get feedback as the whole country I think is away on national holidays currently.

When I say that I feel a lens is soft and all of a sudden everyone gets stunned and thinks I'm nuts; I really am talking about fine subtle details. I don't mean blurry or not sharp etc... I tend to zoom in to 100% to try to fix minute details that I am unhappy with. Most of it comes from when the ISO goes beyond 100. It tends to render the image a little softer on the sensor side, but also denoising can actually make what little detail there was blurred. It's a fine balance that I'm seeing between detail restoration which can bring the noise back and aggressiveness of noise reduction initially.

Therefor chalkboard scratching lens is always the best one unless you're preference is different. I was thinking about this for a while and I think it's down to perhaps the Korean manufacturers taking a more aggressive optical design which some reviewers have even stated as being 'oversharp'. That small detail is probably my personal threshold for hard or soft.

In the meantime this is from my FA*300 that I consider slightly "soft":




I normally set my cameras to 'Vibrance' mode and then in RawTherapee the first thing I do is apply a profile with just about all default sharpening processes engaged then use a "spot" enhancement to further sharpen the image and add contrast. It's still not enough though


This is what I mean from a various set of lenses and images (info is displayed in the screenshot):







after denoising, it just gets a little softer:




I'll probably try to stop down to f/8 as it seemed to get much sharper by then judging from the plane shot. I think the rest is probably just that the lens is too short and really on Full Frame, I need something like 900mm to bring those shots closer.

[kayasaman]

Doing an opportunistic test based at f/8 gives me quite a decent result:



and a 100% crop:




I think it's safe to say, step the FA*300 down to f/8 to get sharper results then when run wide open at f/4.5 or even f/5.6.

Not sure if it's my eyes or my other issue of wanting everything as clear as $5 million microscope but the feathers around the wings seem a little smudgy. This happens with most lenses I look at like this, that birds feathers and plumage always end up like that or worse as in more exaggerated.

That's when I start looking at lenses more critically and calling them soft. I'll try disengaging the NR in RT and see what happens.


Hmm.... ???

[RICHARD L.]

I normally set my cameras to 'Vibrance' mode

Welcome to the "VIBRANT" club ... I set my 645Z to this color palette and everybody kept telling me my images were "oversaturated" and one (Wheatfield) even said they looked "garish". I think they have no taste for really beautiful and punchy imaging ... LOL ! As to the 645 FA* 300 mm f/4, my copy is really good but requires a solid tripod and between f/8 and f/16 to really shine :