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12-22-2008, 01:52 PM   #1
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Takumar Question

I have a couple of Takumar lenses, and I'm wondering about the Auto / Manual switch. Should I be using it in Auto or Manual mode on my *ist D camera? Also, I'm not sure what position is auto and what is manual. I know it sounds dumb, but if I move the switch in the manual direction, then the word manual is covered, and you can only see auto, and same with the other direction. So if I move the switch to the manual direction, is it actually in manual or automatic mode?

Also one of my lenses, the switch doesn't move. Is it easy to fix this? I may not need to, it depends on if it's actually in auto or manual mode.

12-22-2008, 02:56 PM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by eccs19 Quote
I have a couple of Takumar lenses, and I'm wondering about the Auto / Manual switch. Should I be using it in Auto or Manual mode on my *ist D camera? Also, I'm not sure what position is auto and what is manual. I know it sounds dumb, but if I move the switch in the manual direction, then the word manual is covered, and you can only see auto, and same with the other direction. So if I move the switch to the manual direction, is it actually in manual or automatic mode?

Also one of my lenses, the switch doesn't move. Is it easy to fix this? I may not need to, it depends on if it's actually in auto or manual mode.
One of my lenses has switch that occasionally jams; it'll work if I jiggle it long enough.

For M42 lenses (screw type) with an adapter to K-mount used on a K100D, If you can see the word "auto" on the lens barrel, you cannot change the aperture - the aperture will stay open as you focus & shoot no matter how you've adjusted the aperture ring.

If you can see the word "manual" on the lens barrel, you can manually change the aperture and get accurate metering with the camera.

I don't know if any K-mount Takumars had an aperture adjust arm (not pin) extending from the lens; if the lens has such an arm, and were "auto aperture" maybe the aperture ring is useful in other than "manual" mode. I hope someone will clarify this.

BDmitrov's web page may help understand this...I'm still confused about it.

Last edited by newarts; 12-22-2008 at 03:07 PM.
12-22-2008, 03:20 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by eccs19 Quote
I have a couple of Takumar lenses, and I'm wondering about the Auto / Manual switch.
These lenses date from a period when lenses did not "talk back" to the camera (well the SMC and S-M-C Takumars did. but we'll ignore them here). So the camera did not know the aperture setting on the lens. The brighter the light, the easier it is to focus a lens, so you'll want to keep the lens wide open when focusing. This is the reason for Auto: in this position the diaphragm is held open, regardless of the position of the aperture ring. On those old film cameras, when you told the camera to meter the scene a lever in the camera pushed a pin at the back of the lens and this stopped down the diaphragm to the aperture set on the aperture ring. Similarly, when you pressed the shutter release the camera would push the pin just before opening the shutter. You can imagine that this was really quite revolutionary! Older cameras did not have this ability, and this is the Man setting on the lens: you had to focus wide open, then turn the aperture ring to the required aperture and use your handheld meter (or sunny 16 rule) to determine the shutter speed.

To test this out, switch your lens to Auto, turn the aperture to something small (say f/16) and you'll see that the diaphragm is wide open. Now press the button on the back of the lens and you'll see the diaphragm closes down. Now push the switch to Man and notice that as you turn the aperture ring the diaphragm will open and close.

QuoteQuote:
Should I be using it in Auto or Manual mode on my *ist D camera?
When Pentax moved to the K-Mount they removed the lever to push the pin on the back of an "auto" M42 lens. So your *ist D cannot push the pin, and so if you use the lens in Auto position you'll always shoot wide open. That means that in most cases you should use the lens in Man mode, and the camera in either Av or M. Of course, if you choose to use a small aperture that may make focusing difficult, so it is usually convenient to switch to Auto to focus, then switch to Man to meter the scene and take the shot.

QuoteQuote:
Also, I'm not sure what position is auto and what is manual. I know it sounds dumb, but if I move the switch in the manual direction, then the word manual is covered, and you can only see auto, and same with the other direction. So if I move the switch to the manual direction, is it actually in manual or automatic mode?
If Auto is showing then it is in Auto mode, when you push the switch to cover Auto and show Man then it is in Man mode. Use the procedure I mention above: turn the aperture ring to a small aperture, if the diaphragm closes down then the lens is in Man mode, if you must push the pin to stop down the diaphragm then the lens is in Auto mode.

QuoteQuote:
Also one of my lenses, the switch doesn't move. Is it easy to fix this? I may not need to, it depends on if it's actually in auto or manual mode.
Ah, now this might not be a fault. For SMC and Super-Multi-Coated Takumars there is a catch put there specifically to fool us - a little pin on the back. If the pin is not pushed in, then the switch will not move out of Man mode. In this situation to switch to Auto mode you have to make sure that the pin is pushed in. Once the pin is pushed in you can switch back and forth between Man and Auto.

To locate this pin, look on the back of the lens there you'll see a square shaped piece of metal at about 9 o'clock if the aperture pin is at noon. Just to the left of that square (at a position between 8 and 9 o'clock) on the back face of the lens is a tiny pin. This pin is pushed in when the lens is screwed on to a camera. On my SMC Takumar this pin got stuck so I used a small screwdriver and pushed the pin which freed it, and it popped out. I did this a few times to unstick it.

If you do not have a lens with this little pin, then it may be that the switch is broken. The problem with Takumars is that to get access to the bottom of the lens you have to take everything out from the top. That's a real pain to do.

Richard
12-22-2008, 03:29 PM   #4
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BRAVO! Wonderfully explained Sir!

Regards,
Mike

12-22-2008, 04:07 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by X Man Quote
BRAVO! Wonderfully explained Sir!

Regards,
Mike
+1 on that. Excellent explanation.

After that info, I've determined that my one lens is stuck in auto. I can't get it into manual, so I'm shooting wide open all the time. I'll have a look for that pin you mentioned, and see what I can do. I hope that's all that's wrong. I don't want to have to rip this lens apart.
12-22-2008, 04:15 PM   #6
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At least some Takumar K-mount lenses have a blade sticking out of the rear of the lens.

If there is such a blade, the Optical Preview function on your camera will stop down the lens for metering and shooting.
12-22-2008, 04:16 PM   #7
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The pin you were talking about worked great. It actually wasn't stuck. I guess I only tried moving it from auto to manual while it wasn't mounted, so it wouldn't move. Once it was mounted, it moved with absolutly no issue. Thanks again!
12-22-2008, 04:54 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by newarts Quote
At least some Takumar K-mount lenses have a blade sticking out of the rear of the lens.

If there is such a blade, the Optical Preview function on your camera will stop down the lens for metering and shooting.
ALL K-mount lenses have that blade sticking out of the rear of the lens. That blade is how the camera senses the aperture setting. The inability to sense that setting is why the mount on the DSLRs is called a "crippled" K-mount and why when using non-A lenses we now have to meter using either the AE-L or Green button (depending on our particular model of DSLR).

M42 and K-mount lenses are entirely different animals when it comes to how the lenses interacted with the camera bodies.

12-22-2008, 06:05 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mike Cash Quote
ALL K-mount lenses have that blade sticking out of the rear of the lens. ....
Thanks Mike.
12-24-2008, 10:54 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mike Cash Quote
ALL K-mount lenses have that blade sticking out of the rear of the lens. That blade is how the camera senses the aperture setting.
Hmmm. K Mount have two such blades. One stops down the diaphragm, the other indicates the position of the aperture ring. So if newarts is talking about the former, then he's right that optical preview and the green button stops down the lens for metering. But that lever is only on K-mount lenses. Takumar Bayonet lenses are K-mount, but it is debatable if such lenses should be called "Takumar"

The other lever, the one that indicates the position of the aperture ring, is on K-mount lenses (it is recessed), and it is on S-M-C and SMC Takumar lenses too. This lever is not on my Super Takumar lenses or my CZJ M42 lenses. It is the lack of this lever (indicating the position of the aperture ring) that makes the AF K-mounts "crippled"

Bojidar's site explains this. Here is his picture of the lens mount:



The picture on the right is the back of a lens. The lever that moves the diaphragm is shown on the right of this picture, on the left there is a red ring and this is where the aperture ring coupler should be. Interestingly, my DA 18-55 has a coupler here, but of course, there is no aperture ring to move it! I have a Sigma AF lens (I guess, equivalent to an FA lens in features) and when I turn the aperture ring off "A" I can see that the coupler on the lens moves with the aperture ring. So I guess FA lenses are not crippled. DA lenses are partically crippled because although they have the coupler, it cannot be moved.

Bojidar's picture shows the camera mount too (on the left, in the picture above). On the left is the lever that couples with the lever on the lens that stops down the lens diaphragm. The red ring on the right is where the camera should have a coupler, and since it doesn't, this is the reason why the mount is called "crippled".

Richard
12-24-2008, 11:05 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by eccs19 Quote
The pin you were talking about worked great. It actually wasn't stuck. I guess I only tried moving it from auto to manual while it wasn't mounted, so it wouldn't move. Once it was mounted, it moved with absolutly no issue. Thanks again!
My pleasure. Actually, when I got my first Takumar I had the same problem - I even emailed the guy who I had bought the lens from and complained and he told me that "the lens only works on Spotmatics, it is your problem for not checking" - he was wrong about that, Takumars will work on any K-mount camera when you use an adapter.

So I asked the forum's Takumar guru, Mike Cash, and he pointed me to the knowledge base. Here is a link - there's a picture that shows the pin.

Richard
12-25-2008, 05:53 AM   #12
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Don't give me too much credit. I sat here scratching a hole in my head over the exact same thing until a search turned up that article in the knowledge base. I would have been totally lost without it.

People seem to mistake my using Takumars a lot with knowing a lot about them.
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