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11-04-2022, 10:47 PM - 1 Like   #16
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I wonder how we survived with ISO 100 and f/2.8 when pixels were grains. The f/1.4 hype is a lot of fun, but wide angle and f/1.4 and APSC, you want some third party manual glass or put a generic camera, but not Pentax, behind Sigma glass, Even on FF you options are quite limited here in Pentax land.

11-05-2022, 03:22 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by pschlute Quote
Irix make a 21mm 1.4 They also make a 11mm 4.0 Pentax make a very good 11-18 2.8

If you seriously want a 16mm f1.4, perhaps you can explain your reasons why ? Any such lens will certainly be a marvel to behold, but will be huge, heavy, and very expensive. It wont sell very well which is why it wont be made.




If you "need" f1.2 this is your only option. You may think it "old tech", but there are many on here who use it very effectively including myself.
A 16mm FF turns 24mm in my crop and "24mm" is the least distorted wide-wide lens before 35mm that is almost standard look. The "good old" 50/1.2 turns telephoto 77 to my cameras and I already have the 70/2.4 or the DA* 16-50 2.8 that are pretty sharp. Plus the old 50/1.2 has probably lost its SMC coating over the decades and in flares or new HD coatings its inferior.

---------- Post added 11-05-22 at 03:25 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by LennyBloke Quote
You won't find it in the Pentax line up any time soon - what about the Sigma 18-35mm f1.8 DC HSM, that appears to be the closest fit to your requirements
It's 810gr and I am used to the light Limited lenses that are more fit into walkaround "midnight" shooting. But yes, if I could find a second hand around 300$/€ that would be a very good option.

---------- Post added 11-05-22 at 03:27 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by pepperberry farm Quote
is the DA 14/2.8 still in production?
I think my DA* 16-50/2.8, even as heavy as it is, does cover me for such alternative.

---------- Post added 11-05-22 at 03:30 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by pres589 Quote
Get a Sigma 18-35 f1.8. Or get into a different system.
I've invested a few 000s$ into Pentax, I love Pentax and I am familiar with Pentax. A "walk away" is not an option For Sigma 18-35, I guess I will have to hunt a second hand one but at an reasonable price.
11-05-2022, 03:38 AM - 1 Like   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by tryphon4 Quote
I currently own a Laowa-Venus 12mm F2.8 Zero-d which is wonderful on either aps-c and FF, but it is not super fast.

I owned a Sigma 24mm F1.8 which was wonderful but not so wide. I reselled it later but could consider buying another one because it is a really unique lens.
Here are three humble examples shot using the Sigma:





Great photos btw.

Sigma 24/1.8 is not for sale and on eBay I can't find it anywhere but Japan and that increase my buying price by 50%.

My concern is that my DA* 16-50/2.8 is a mere 1 stop away from Sigma and it does shoot nice at 23mm ( 36 cropped) and no grains at ISO 560 with 1/250s. My lion king "Luther" says hi to your kittens

Thanks for the tip.

---------- Post added 11-05-22 at 03:43 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by bschriver11 Quote
You say town shooting so i assume like city scape? You would want to close the aperture to get the best quality across the frame from an ultra wide lens anyway so why would you need an F/1.4 lens? Get a tripod and use the timer and you can shoot at the lowest ISO possible and carry a lighter less expensive lens while doing it.
Here's the thing... I am searching for a fast lens that is sharp wide open and 1/4-1.2. Tripod is indeed an option but I just can have the freedom and discreetness while shooting eg on downtown ancient Athens alleys.

---------- Post added 11-05-22 at 03:54 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
What body? K-70 and KP and K3iii all offer apsc with very good high iso capabilities. Also consider topaz or DXO to extend iso with low noise.
Having checked the reviews, light is a bitch and anything above ISO800, even at K3iii make photos soft-yet grainless. For trully sharp images I think (may be I am stupid or ignorant) you can never go above 560/800.

K3iii costs some 1700$ and save for a few stops in ISO I just can't persuade myself into buying it. EG who on earth crops 24MB photos and why on earth will anyone print anything larger than a A3+ on photo paper. My photo printer ( 1500$/ 500$ inks) gives me A3+ ( (32.9 x 48.3 cm) and I don't have enough walls to print everything I love. For mere digital files I find it crazy.

Don't take me wrong, I prefer to spend 1000$ on a lens and stay in my 15 or 10 Megapixels, even if my constrains are ISO 560 for grainless photos. BTW I do own two 540 pentax flashes to bring light into controlled environments, even macro! ( I mount both on the body !!!!!

I don't want a camera with video.

---------- Post added 11-05-22 at 03:59 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Saxtonine Quote
And if you need to go wider there is the Sigma 20mm 1.8 EX DG as well. It's not very good wide open but I like it stopped down.
Again, the DA* 16-50/2.8 is a mere 1 1/10 stops slower and I can compensate that with a mix of ISO/speed reduction since it's a pretty sharp lens.

I am sorry if I sound like an arse but ideally a pentax DA - Limited/pancake 16mm/f1.4 is my dream even if I had to pay 1000 bucks or more with a probably divorce subpoena from my beloved wife

Last edited by Athanassios; 12-19-2022 at 10:33 AM.
11-05-2022, 04:16 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by jslifoaw Quote
For fast and wide, FF is your best bet. It’s the easiest way to trade DOF for more light gathering.

The output of lenses like the DFA21/2.4, FA*24/2, or FA31/1.8 are nearly impossible to replicate in APS-C, except on mirrorless where some design constraints become relaxed because of the lack of mirror.

If you want fast and wide on APS-C, all the realistic options have already been given - there are not many options faster than f2.8. Your other option is to get a mirrorless APS-C body and a speedbooster.
I appreciate your blatancy. I guess K1 is the solution but most of my sweet lenses ( 70/2.4, 35/2.8macro, DA* 16-50) are incompatible and I can't go FF.

But... do you have any link/recommendation for a good Pentax speed booster for APC-S? Cause a video I've found show all this problematic for my Pentax APC-S sensores and my DA lenses.


Last edited by Athanassios; 12-19-2022 at 10:33 AM.
11-05-2022, 04:36 AM - 3 Likes   #20
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I routinely shoot at iso 3200 with my KP. I shoot at iso 6400 or 12800 some but some quality is lost then. Are you shooting raw or jpg? I really think your standard of a 16mm f1.4 is unobtainable. Look at ALL brands, only mirrorless has any lenses this fast at this f stop. The short flange distance and lack of retrofocal design plus the ability to correct the distortion in the EVF make different designs possible that don’t exist for dslr.

You can get an f2 manual focus 16mm: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/981709-REG/rokinon_16m_p_16mm_f2_0_ul...981&

---------- Post added 11-05-22 at 08:16 AM ----------

Thinking about this I wonder if moving to full frame is the answer as a 24mm f1.4 is obtainable.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/868737-REG/Samyang_SY24M_P_24mm_f_1_4...981&

Still manual focus however.

If 10-16mp is really enough a Nikon D700 (12mp) or D750 (24mp) plus the Nikon 24mm f1.4 lens begin to look like an option:

icon/midnight/@menu
11-05-2022, 05:37 AM - 1 Like   #21
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SMC Pentax 20mm F1.4 Reviews - K Prime Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database A bit beyond your budget perhaps and it could be a very long time before you ever see another.
11-05-2022, 06:13 AM - 1 Like   #22
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thank you for debunking each and every one of our suggestions - this is just an academic exercise, then?

11-05-2022, 06:44 AM - 4 Likes   #23
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QuoteQuote:
Having checked the reviews, light is a bitch and anything above ISO800, even at K3iii make photos soft-yet grainless. For trully sharp images I think (may be I am stupid or ignorant) you can never go above 560/800.
Most people don't use Topaz or other Denise software, I've gone as high as 3200 ISO on my original K-3

This one at 1600 ISO


When you read reviews, use them to find out what the cameras can do.... not to determine what they can't do. What one person can't do, someone else can. And 100 people saying what it can't do is negated by one person showing that it can be done.

Last edited by normhead; 11-05-2022 at 08:06 AM.
11-05-2022, 06:44 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Athanassios Quote
A 16mm FF turns 24mm in my crop and "24mm" is the least distorted wide-wide lens before 35mm that is almost standard look. The "good old" 50/1.2 turns telephoto 77 to my cameras
I am not quite following you here. A16mm FF lens or a 50mm FF lens is still 16mm or 50mm when mounted on an aps-c camera.
11-05-2022, 07:06 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Athanassios Quote
I appreciate your blatancy. I guess K1 is the solution but most of my sweet lenses ( 70/2.4, 35/2.8macro, DA* 16-50) are incompatible and I can't go FF.

But... do you have any link/recommendation for a good Pentax speed booster for APC-S? Cause a video I've found show all this problematic for my Pentax APC-S sensores and my DA lenses.
Unfortunately, speedboosters are only available on mirrorless because they fit between SLR lenses and the mirrorless mount.

However, if you're threshold is ISO 800, I would say the K-3 III is certainly quite good at 1600 and fairly usable at 3200. I agree that over 3200, quality begins to deteriorate more than I find acceptable.

Also, a used K-1 will probably be easier to manage than buying new very wide F1.4 lenses for APS-C!
11-05-2022, 08:20 AM - 2 Likes   #26
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OK, here's the easy thing to do, maybe post an image you think would be better with 1.2 or 1.4. Then we have something to talk about. It's unfortunate, but people like myself, listen to tall this ƒ1.2 nd ƒ 1.4 stuff. I bought my DA*55 50 1.4 based on the chatter. The way I shoot is I take 5 or 6 images at different ISOs and aperture settings and pick the one I think is best. I have not one image where I selected the 1.4. ƒ2 is the lowest that produces useable images. This year I have 3 ƒ2 images and over 2 BG of keepers on my hard drive. None of those three made onto Flickr for others to see, but they are still good enough to keep on my hard drive, in that there was nothing serious wrong with them.

SO seeing what you hope to accomplish would help. Maybe you can get what you want without going to even ƒ2.

"Also, a used K-1 will probably be easier to manage than buying new very wide F1.4 lenses for APS-C!"

ƒ/2 on a K-1 is the same as ƒ1.4 on APS-c. ƒ1.4 on a K-1 is the same as ƒ1.2 on APS-c. So, if you really want ƒ1.2 APS-c, if you go 1.4 on a K-1 is the way to go. Then you have tons of choice.

But I would seriously question wide angle and a ƒ1.2, especially on APS-c. Wide angle has so much more DOF. For isolating the subject from the background, probably the least want to use, is a 50 on FF. If you want extremely narrow DoF, FF is your best choice. Absolutely.

If you just want more light, a small sensor camera is your best choice. You get more DoF with the same amount of light with small sensor.

Small sensor, ƒ3.5, almost infinite depth of field. If this is your goal, use your iPhone 14. But, I really have no idea what your goal is. This FZ100 is almost the same resolution as my K-3 in LW/PH.


If you can more clearly define what you're after we can offer solutions. There are two aspects to a wide Aperture , DoF and lower shutter speed. Which are you after? They require different solutions.

Last edited by normhead; 11-05-2022 at 08:35 AM.
11-05-2022, 09:32 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by steephill Quote
SMC Pentax 20mm F1.4 Reviews - K Prime Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database A bit beyond your budget perhaps and it could be a very long time before you ever see another.
Only 7 in existence; one last sold in an auction. Rarest pentax lens. Last sold at 6900€😳

---------- Post added 11-05-22 at 09:59 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by pepperberry farm Quote
thank you for debunking each and every one of our suggestions - this is just an academic exercise, then?
I am not rude nor in an academic quest. Yet I still haven’t found what I am looking for and guess I’ll never will. My goal is to stay on APC-S for the shake of all the money and time I’ve invested 🥹🙏

Last edited by Athanassios; 11-05-2022 at 10:02 AM.
11-05-2022, 10:20 AM - 3 Likes   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Athanassios Quote
Only 7 in existence; one last sold in an auction. Rarest pentax lens. Where is it for sale?

---------- Post added 11-05-22 at 09:59 AM ----------



I am not rude nor in an academic quest. Yet I still haven’t found what I am looking for and guess I’ll never will. My goal is to stay on APC-S for the shake of all the money and time I’ve invested 🥹🙏
You still have not said what camera body you have. I think newer APSC cameras will give better ISO results than you realize. Also if 24mp is more than you need you can apply downsampling to pick up additional noise reduction. 24 - 16mp is not a huge downsample however.

My conclusion is that there is no outcome that gets what you want. So, let's try framing the outcome with a different approach:
1) Given there are no wide angle K mount options that get the angle of view you want that have better than f2 and are autofocus.
2) You stated that 10-16mp was plenty.
3) The K-1 in crop mode is 15mp and similar to a K-5iis in noise in this mode.
4) The FA* 24mm f2 is readily available used.
5) f2 on FF is about f1.4 on crop for Depth of Field
6) FF offers at least 1 stop lower noise so ISO 1600 should look very similar to ISO 800 when shooting in FF mode.
7) Downsampling allows you to take the 36mp FF image and make it about 15mp and gain about 1 stop of noise further.
Bearing these factors in mind; my recommendation is that you buy an FA* 24/2 and a K-1.
  • You can keep using your existing crop lenses (no throwing away investment) by shooting in crop mode and getting about the MP you wanted to start with.
  • You can add FF lenses - particularly at the wide end - to enhance your options. Your FA 31 will suddenly be a moderate wide angle - and a fine one at that.
  • You can stick to Pentax - which you clearly want to do. It's a win all over.
11-05-2022, 12:12 PM - 1 Like   #29
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Ok, I am with @normhead on this, as I don't quite get why would you need f1.4 or faster lens for city shots? If it is dark, get a tripod, otherwise just use slower 15mm Limited or 11-18 DA* if you really need it relatively fast. Unless it is just a case of "fast prime is a must" hype that lately is popular over internet.
11-05-2022, 01:07 PM - 1 Like   #30
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Fast and wide is evidently a design conundrum for APS-C. There are some fast new ultra-wide MF FF designs in production, well-rated and would be at least regular WA on APS-C, if you get a good copy.

It seems to me you should be able to find a Sigma 24mm f/1.8 EX DG lens in fine condition on the used market with some patience. They were in production over a long period of time. I bought this lens new back in the day, originally bought for 35mm film use, and still think well of it. it is very well-made, and test-wise it does as well as the Pentax FA 24mm f/2. So, designed for FF use but will give the equivalent of 35mm FOV on APS-C.

Not seeing were you are located, but here in the US B&H looks to have one used for about $350 condition 9 out of 10, minor usage marks on the body, free shipping in the US. I just did a google search and it turned up. Their phone number given is (866) 254-1492.

I just checked regarding a used Pentax FA* 24mm f/2 lens, found one on eBay for much less.

Last edited by mikesbike; 11-05-2022 at 03:27 PM.
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