16-45 or 17-70? (and sorry if this has been discussed before)

Finn · 12-30-2008, 07:01 PM

Forgive me if this has already been discussed, but I couldn't find it in the search...

OK, so I'm ready to put down some cash for a new zoom, either the 16-45 or DA 17-70. The latter is kind of a reach price-wise, so sadly don't even bother bringing up the 16-50.

I've owned a 16-45 before and loved it. It's the only lens I've truly regretted selling.

The extra reach of the 17-70 would be nice, but that's not enough to pay an extra couple hundred bucks.

It really comes down to SDM -- is it really that much faster than a regular old screw drive on a K20D? If yes, I will probably go for the 17-70. If no, I've probably run out of excuses to spend the extra dough.

Thoughts?

heatherslightbox · 12-30-2008, 07:09 PM

I'm in the same boat. I love the 16-45, but sometimes I find it a bit short for walking around. I'd be curious to find out about this as well.

Then there's always that 21...decisions, decisions...

Heather

K100Dave · 12-30-2008, 07:13 PM

there's a saying that I stick to...."Your legs are the best telephoto extention that you will ever need!"

heatherslightbox · 12-30-2008, 07:32 PM

Originally posted by K100Dave

there's a saying that I stick to...."Your legs are the best telephoto extention that you will ever need!"

True, true.

Add the fact that I've got 2 bodies, so I have the option of putting the 16-45 on one and a longer lens on the other--either the F35-70, DA55-300, or DFA100, depending on how much extra FL I think I'll be needing.

Heather

Finn · 12-30-2008, 07:41 PM

Originally posted by K100Dave

there's a saying that I stick to...."Your legs are the best telephoto extention that you will ever need!"

That is true. I try not to frame shots with the zoom anyway, just dialing in the focal length for the FOV I want to have, and letting my feet take it from there. I guess it comes from never having used a zoom before going to digital...

When I had the 16-45, most of my shots were at either 16 or 45, with hardly anything in the middle (missing the entire "sweet spot" -- go figure).

So really it is just about SDM...

Mike.P® · 12-31-2008, 02:03 AM

If it had weather sealing I would be on it like a shot but to me the SDM is not worth the etra over my 16-45mm.

creampuff · 12-31-2008, 05:20 AM

Tried the DA 17-70mm at my local Pentax rep and I feel it has the edge over the DA 16-45mm. Focusing is fast and the lack of screw drive whine allows for unobtrusive shooting. The longer reach allows for decent head and shoulder portrait shots. Frankly the lack of weather sealing should not deter one to try out this lens.

RaduA · 12-31-2008, 06:18 AM

Originally posted by creampuff

Tried the DA 17-70mm at my local Pentax rep and I feel it has the edge over the DA 16-45mm. Focusing is fast and the lack of screw drive whine allows for unobtrusive shooting. The longer reach allows for decent head and shoulder portrait shots. Frankly the lack of weather sealing should not deter one to try out this lens.

In fact I still don't understand why Pentax doesn't bundle this lens with the K-m in a special offer. If they can give a 50 USD/Euro instant rebate the K-m+DA17-70 would be something like 760 Euro a decent price for a very high IQ combination plus the extra range compared with the kit plus the lack of noise.

Radu

creampuff · 12-31-2008, 06:53 AM

Originally posted by RaduA

In fact I still don't understand why Pentax doesn't bundle this lens with the K-m in a special offer. If they can give a 50 USD/Euro instant rebate the K-m+DA17-70 would be something like 760 Euro a decent price for a very high IQ combination plus the extra range compared with the kit plus the lack of noise.

Radu

The majority of photographers are price sensitive and if they are new to DSLRs or just starting out in photography, they probably won't know enough to assess the merits of a particular lens. They just need a lens to get started, hence the inclusion of a cheap kit or starter lens sold with every camera. They may also not be willing to pay for a camera or lens beyond a certain price point no matter how good the performance of a particular lens.

Bundling involves keeping track of more stock keeping units (SKU), which retailers and suppliers may be resistant to have as it involves a little more administration and logistics in the supply and distribution chain. It just may not be worth the effort.

RaduA · 12-31-2008, 09:32 AM

Originally posted by creampuff

The majority of photographers are price sensitive and if they are new to DSLRs or just starting out in photography, they probably won't know enough to assess the merits of a particular lens. They just need a lens to get started, hence the inclusion of a cheap kit or starter lens sold with every camera. They may also not be willing to pay for a camera or lens beyond a certain price point no matter how good the performance of a particular lens.

Bundling involves keeping track of more stock keeping units (SKU), which retailers and suppliers may be resistant to have as it involves a little more administration and logistics in the supply and distribution chain. It just may not be worth the effort.

Can't argue with that but being in the self assumed position of a niche market camera producer I think they need to cater for more than just the "lowest demand" customers on the market. For me it's pretty clear that for those who favor CCD colors there will be nothing more advanced from Pentax as they switch to CMOS. And if they can do a lot of different bundles in Japan (body only, single kit, dual kit, dual premium kit with 55-300 as tele, white edition) I guess this is also doable. I've seen in Germany a K20+DA17-70 for 1000 Euro which is 100 Euro bellow the combined prices and this seemed to me like a great deal!

Radu

dan aron · 01-01-2009, 10:08 PM

I haven't seen any blames about 16-45's really noisy AF. Is it just my copy or do you have the same issue? I really want to believe that this one is just really bad copy.

heliphoto · 01-01-2009, 10:29 PM

Originally posted by Finn

...

It really comes down to SDM -- is it really that much faster than a regular old screw drive on a K20D? If yes, I will probably go for the 17-70. If no, I've probably run out of excuses to spend the extra dough.

Thoughts?

I haven't done any testing, but I don't think my SDM lenses (*16-50 and a *50-135mm) are any faster than a screw drive lens of comparable focus throw. In fact, I'd say they're slower than several screw drive lenses I've used. Again without data to back it up, I'd say the Sigma 28-105 asph. was the fastest focusing lens I've ever used (with the absolutely worst MF feel I've ever felt too), probably followed by the Sigma 24-60 EX DG. Both were very fast and locked focus very well.

The amazing thing about SDM is it's quiet action. It just exudes quality (and doesn't annoy me nearly as much as it racks through a missed-focus cycle).

45mm vs. 70mm is a pretty big difference in the long end and if you'd find the 70mm usefull, I think it's something to consider. I've also heard it bandied about that the 17-70 might have weather sealing on the lens mount though I don't remember what the consensus (let alone the reality) was.

dan aron · 01-01-2009, 11:26 PM

Check this video. Is it normal or not? I mean the noise of AF.
YouTube - Pentax 16-45 AF

edit.. Well, it seems to be noisy only when it cannot focus but when it catch it's pretty tolerable. But still I'm wondering should I keep this or look for something else.

heliphoto · 01-01-2009, 11:52 PM

Originally posted by dan aron

Check this video. Is it normal or not? I mean the noise of AF.

Well... I can't determine it's volume, so if it's louder than normal I wouldn't know, but it sure sounds normal to me for a lens not locking focus - that's my favorite thing about SDM, when it hunts, at least it doesn't tell the whole world

.

dan aron · 01-01-2009, 11:57 PM

Originally posted by heliphoto

Well... I can't determine it's volume, so if it's louder than normal I wouldn't know...

I can tell you. It is really loud!

Originally posted by heliphoto

that's my favorite thing about SDM, when it hunts, at least it doesn't tell the whole world

.

One lovely feature =]

12-30-2008, 07:01 PM	#1
Finn Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Phoenix Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,056	16-45 or 17-70? (and sorry if this has been discussed before) Forgive me if this has already been discussed, but I couldn't find it in the search... OK, so I'm ready to put down some cash for a new zoom, either the 16-45 or DA 17-70. The latter is kind of a reach price-wise, so sadly don't even bother bringing up the 16-50. I've owned a 16-45 before and loved it. It's the only lens I've truly regretted selling. The extra reach of the 17-70 would be nice, but that's not enough to pay an extra couple hundred bucks. It really comes down to SDM -- is it really that much faster than a regular old screw drive on a K20D? If yes, I will probably go for the 17-70. If no, I've probably run out of excuses to spend the extra dough. Thoughts?

01-01-2009, 11:26 PM	#13
dan aron Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Finland Posts: 55	Check this video. Is it normal or not? I mean the noise of AF. YouTube - Pentax 16-45 AF edit.. Well, it seems to be noisy only when it cannot focus but when it catch it's pretty tolerable. But still I'm wondering should I keep this or look for something else. Last edited by dan aron; 01-01-2009 at 11:39 PM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Samsung DSLRs may also be discussed here	Adam	Pentax DSLR Discussion	17	09-29-2009 10:34 PM
The blue wren I discussed	trishytee	Troubleshooting and Beginner Help	8	08-29-2009 02:06 PM
This may have been discussed and I missed it, but..	macdaddy	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	9	03-20-2007 11:44 AM
What to post in the DSLR section (Samsung DSLRs may also be discussed here)	Adam	Pentax DSLR Discussion	0	09-06-2006 08:35 PM

12-30-2008, 07:09 PM	#2
heatherslightbox Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Gainesville, FL Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,599	I'm in the same boat. I love the 16-45, but sometimes I find it a bit short for walking around. I'd be curious to find out about this as well. Then there's always that 21...decisions, decisions... Heather

12-30-2008, 07:13 PM	#3
K100Dave Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 111	there's a saying that I stick to...."Your legs are the best telephoto extention that you will ever need!"

12-30-2008, 07:32 PM	#4
heatherslightbox Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Gainesville, FL Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,599	Originally posted by K100Dave there's a saying that I stick to...."Your legs are the best telephoto extention that you will ever need!" True, true. Add the fact that I've got 2 bodies, so I have the option of putting the 16-45 on one and a longer lens on the other--either the F35-70, DA55-300, or DFA100, depending on how much extra FL I think I'll be needing. Heather

12-30-2008, 07:41 PM	#5
Finn Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Phoenix Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,056 Original Poster	Originally posted by K100Dave there's a saying that I stick to...."Your legs are the best telephoto extention that you will ever need!" That is true. I try not to frame shots with the zoom anyway, just dialing in the focal length for the FOV I want to have, and letting my feet take it from there. I guess it comes from never having used a zoom before going to digital... When I had the 16-45, most of my shots were at either 16 or 45, with hardly anything in the middle (missing the entire "sweet spot" -- go figure). So really it is just about SDM...

12-31-2008, 02:03 AM	#6
Mike.P® Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: New Milton, Hampshire, UK Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,154	If it had weather sealing I would be on it like a shot but to me the SDM is not worth the etra over my 16-45mm.

12-31-2008, 05:20 AM	#7
creampuff Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Singapore Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,953	Tried the DA 17-70mm at my local Pentax rep and I feel it has the edge over the DA 16-45mm. Focusing is fast and the lack of screw drive whine allows for unobtrusive shooting. The longer reach allows for decent head and shoulder portrait shots. Frankly the lack of weather sealing should not deter one to try out this lens.

12-31-2008, 06:18 AM	#8
RaduA Guest	Originally posted by creampuff Tried the DA 17-70mm at my local Pentax rep and I feel it has the edge over the DA 16-45mm. Focusing is fast and the lack of screw drive whine allows for unobtrusive shooting. The longer reach allows for decent head and shoulder portrait shots. Frankly the lack of weather sealing should not deter one to try out this lens. In fact I still don't understand why Pentax doesn't bundle this lens with the K-m in a special offer. If they can give a 50 USD/Euro instant rebate the K-m+DA17-70 would be something like 760 Euro a decent price for a very high IQ combination plus the extra range compared with the kit plus the lack of noise. Radu

12-31-2008, 06:53 AM	#9
creampuff Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Singapore Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,953	Originally posted by RaduA In fact I still don't understand why Pentax doesn't bundle this lens with the K-m in a special offer. If they can give a 50 USD/Euro instant rebate the K-m+DA17-70 would be something like 760 Euro a decent price for a very high IQ combination plus the extra range compared with the kit plus the lack of noise. Radu The majority of photographers are price sensitive and if they are new to DSLRs or just starting out in photography, they probably won't know enough to assess the merits of a particular lens. They just need a lens to get started, hence the inclusion of a cheap kit or starter lens sold with every camera. They may also not be willing to pay for a camera or lens beyond a certain price point no matter how good the performance of a particular lens. Bundling involves keeping track of more stock keeping units (SKU), which retailers and suppliers may be resistant to have as it involves a little more administration and logistics in the supply and distribution chain. It just may not be worth the effort.

12-31-2008, 09:32 AM	#10
RaduA Guest	Originally posted by creampuff The majority of photographers are price sensitive and if they are new to DSLRs or just starting out in photography, they probably won't know enough to assess the merits of a particular lens. They just need a lens to get started, hence the inclusion of a cheap kit or starter lens sold with every camera. They may also not be willing to pay for a camera or lens beyond a certain price point no matter how good the performance of a particular lens. Bundling involves keeping track of more stock keeping units (SKU), which retailers and suppliers may be resistant to have as it involves a little more administration and logistics in the supply and distribution chain. It just may not be worth the effort. Can't argue with that but being in the self assumed position of a niche market camera producer I think they need to cater for more than just the "lowest demand" customers on the market. For me it's pretty clear that for those who favor CCD colors there will be nothing more advanced from Pentax as they switch to CMOS. And if they can do a lot of different bundles in Japan (body only, single kit, dual kit, dual premium kit with 55-300 as tele, white edition) I guess this is also doable. I've seen in Germany a K20+DA17-70 for 1000 Euro which is 100 Euro bellow the combined prices and this seemed to me like a great deal! Radu

01-01-2009, 10:08 PM	#11
dan aron Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Finland Posts: 55	I haven't seen any blames about 16-45's really noisy AF. Is it just my copy or do you have the same issue? I really want to believe that this one is just really bad copy.

01-01-2009, 10:29 PM	#12
heliphoto Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Region 5 Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,539	Originally posted by Finn ... It really comes down to SDM -- is it really that much faster than a regular old screw drive on a K20D? If yes, I will probably go for the 17-70. If no, I've probably run out of excuses to spend the extra dough. Thoughts? I haven't done any testing, but I don't think my SDM lenses (16-50 and a 50-135mm) are any faster than a screw drive lens of comparable focus throw. In fact, I'd say they're slower than several screw drive lenses I've used. Again without data to back it up, I'd say the Sigma 28-105 asph. was the fastest focusing lens I've ever used (with the absolutely worst MF feel I've ever felt too), probably followed by the Sigma 24-60 EX DG. Both were very fast and locked focus very well. The amazing thing about SDM is it's quiet action. It just exudes quality (and doesn't annoy me nearly as much as it racks through a missed-focus cycle). 45mm vs. 70mm is a pretty big difference in the long end and if you'd find the 70mm usefull, I think it's something to consider. I've also heard it bandied about that the 17-70 might have weather sealing on the lens mount though I don't remember what the consensus (let alone the reality) was.

01-01-2009, 11:52 PM	#14
heliphoto Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Region 5 Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,539	Originally posted by dan aron Check this video. Is it normal or not? I mean the noise of AF. Well... I can't determine it's volume, so if it's louder than normal I wouldn't know, but it sure sounds normal to me for a lens not locking focus - that's my favorite thing about SDM, when it hunts, at least it doesn't tell the whole world .

01-01-2009, 11:57 PM	#15
dan aron Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Finland Posts: 55	Originally posted by heliphoto Well... I can't determine it's volume, so if it's louder than normal I wouldn't know... I can tell you. It is really loud! Originally posted by heliphoto that's my favorite thing about SDM, when it hunts, at least it doesn't tell the whole world . One lovely feature =]