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View Poll Results: Is this DA*16-50mm good or bad?
Keep it -- it's good. 2388.46%
Return it or send it in for repair. 311.54%
Voters: 26. You may not vote on this poll

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02-17-2008, 06:23 AM   #421
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QuoteOriginally posted by little laker Quote
Just a thought.

I'm not that fond of the quality control I've seen with the DA* 16-50mm, however most people won't be using it to photograph newspapers and whatnot.

What's the image quality like on an everyday photograph?

My Vivitar 28mm f2.8 series 1 lens would probably fail the newspaper test, however when it comes to landscapes it's my best lens by far.
This is the only thing that I use this lens with so it's fine by me.
I'm sure your Vivitar would just do fine in a newspaper test. People seem to forget that when I did my newspaper test I compared the DA* 16-50 with the DA 18-55mm kit lens. The kit lens did just fine on the newspaper test, so is it asking a whole lot for the 10 times as expensive * lens to perform better and not worse than the kit lens?

Ted

02-17-2008, 10:13 AM   #422
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tbear Quote
I'm sure your Vivitar would just do fine in a newspaper test. People seem to forget that when I did my newspaper test I compared the DA* 16-50 with the DA 18-55mm kit lens. The kit lens did just fine on the newspaper test, so is it asking a whole lot for the 10 times as expensive * lens to perform better and not worse than the kit lens?

Ted
This hits the nail on the head. iT had got to the point where I would have accepted a DA*16-50 that was equal to the Kit lens. I too have said as much and posted images...
Unfortunately my third copy is pretty good...But is took me three months to get a good one after many complaints and much stress over it...Pentax sure did not have a problem taking my money.
02-17-2008, 11:21 AM   #423
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QuoteOriginally posted by little laker Quote
Just a thought.

I'm not that fond of the quality control I've seen with the DA* 16-50mm, however most people won't be using it to photograph newspapers and whatnot.

What's the image quality like on an everyday photograph?

My Vivitar 28mm f2.8 series 1 lens would probably fail the newspaper test, however when it comes to landscapes it's my best lens by far.
This is the only thing that I use this lens with so it's fine by me.
Actions speak louder than words, and the answer is that the DA* is the one that is on my camera.

It is perfectly clear to me after pixel peeping several hundred or more photographs with various lens combinations, that camera shake is far more
destructive of photo image quality, than I ever dreamed it was--even with SR
at traditionally acceptable 'hand holdable speeds (1/30th and above.)

Likewise--It is likewise clear that The best thing you can do for your
camera to improve photo quality is to activate the AUTO ISO feature
and even on a K10---set the upper range to ISO 800.---and then remember to turn it off when using a flash.

The point here that is very clear in the reviewing that I have done is that
the improved sharpness of photos increases far more rapidly from reduced shake problems with higher ISO's than it is degraded by increased noise of the higher ISO's.

Obviously this is NOT the case if every photo you take is accomplished by first bolting your cameraa to a a block of concrete, and using a remote release, but most of us most of the time don't use even a tripod--let alone a ablock of concrete.

Mostly at normal blowups you can't see the shake, but when you put the photo in photoshop and blow it up to 100% or 200%, it isn't hard to identify.

Bottom line--- perceived optical issues will not be the worst techncial issue with your photo unless you universally use a tripod with sandbags on it. Secondly, you can improve overall quality radically by elevation of the ISO, and the AUTO ISO feature of the K10 does a good job, but I suggest using it more aggressively, by setting the upper range to ISO 800 on a K10, if you are hand held.
02-17-2008, 01:27 PM   #424
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I've done some tests with the DA* 16-50 and my K10D, and at 16mm f/2.8, it has focus problems. At 50mm it is OK.

Just put it on my DS, and at 16mm f/2.8, it looks just fine to me.

So, I am wondering if this is a lens issue, or a camera issue?
Same lens, on different cameras, get different results.

Also, what is this I hear about 'matching' the lens with the camera?

Thanks.

02-17-2008, 02:36 PM   #425
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QuoteOriginally posted by smokey Quote
I've done some tests with the DA* 16-50 and my K10D, and at 16mm f/2.8, it has focus problems. At 50mm it is OK.

Just put it on my DS, and at 16mm f/2.8, it looks just fine to me.

So, I am wondering if this is a lens issue, or a camera issue?
Same lens, on different cameras, get different results.

Also, what is this I hear about 'matching' the lens with the camera?

Thanks.
I am coming to believe there are more 'matching' issues around than we realize, and that it is an issue more evident for reasons we don't understand on the K10 than others. For example I have seen nots of K10 owner complaints about the DA* 16-50, but have yet to seen a K100 owner complaining about the lens. Maybe no K100 owners ever bought a 16-50

It is also notable that the K20 is mentioned to have a table in it for defining
the lenses so they can be managed differently.

It makes as much sense as anything to assume that the long absence of more SDM lenses, had more to do with the release date of the K20 than it did with the production of the lenses. After all we have now seen for example that the DA*200 is simply a FA*200 with a new paint job and an SDM motor.
It didn't take 2 years to blend the shade of black paint.

Without the slightest bit of inside information, I predict that thte 16-50 will work better with the K20.
02-17-2008, 02:58 PM   #426
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My local Pentax dealer hasn't had a DA* 16-50 for 3 months and the last few they've sold have all been returned as defective.

They're still waiting to find out from Pentax UK when they can expect to start receiving them again. In the meantime, it's not even worth them ordering me one. Let's just hope when they start shipping them again, I won't get a lemon.
02-17-2008, 03:32 PM   #427
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QuoteOriginally posted by fast50 Quote
My local Pentax dealer hasn't had a DA* 16-50 for 3 months and the last few they've sold have all been returned as defective.

They're still waiting to find out from Pentax UK when they can expect to start receiving them again. In the meantime, it's not even worth them ordering me one. Let's just hope when they start shipping them again, I won't get a lemon.
Did you somehow miss the entire conversation in this thread? It may be incorrect to just pass of the lens as defective when indeed it may be an issue with the lens and camera combination.
02-17-2008, 03:36 PM   #428
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QuoteOriginally posted by drivel Quote
What is going on with this shot?

Check out the $249,900 (the rest of the image is the same, but this is the most obvious part).

Clearly not blurring - it looks like 2 images, the fainter one shifted down a bit and to the right. Much more characteristic of camera shake than lack of sharpness.

If not shake, then what?

02-17-2008, 03:47 PM   #429
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QuoteOriginally posted by rvannatta Quote
Actions speak louder than words, and the answer is that the DA* is the one that is on my camera.

It is perfectly clear to me after pixel peeping several hundred or more photographs with various lens combinations, that camera shake is far more
destructive of photo image quality, than I ever dreamed it was--even with SR
at traditionally acceptable 'hand holdable speeds (1/30th and above.)

Likewise--It is likewise clear that The best thing you can do for your
camera to improve photo quality is to activate the AUTO ISO feature
and even on a K10---set the upper range to ISO 800.---and then remember to turn it off when using a flash.

The point here that is very clear in the reviewing that I have done is that
the improved sharpness of photos increases far more rapidly from reduced shake problems with higher ISO's than it is degraded by increased noise of the higher ISO's.

Obviously this is NOT the case if every photo you take is accomplished by first bolting your cameraa to a a block of concrete, and using a remote release, but most of us most of the time don't use even a tripod--let alone a ablock of concrete.

Mostly at normal blowups you can't see the shake, but when you put the photo in photoshop and blow it up to 100% or 200%, it isn't hard to identify.

Bottom line--- perceived optical issues will not be the worst techncial issue with your photo unless you universally use a tripod with sandbags on it. Secondly, you can improve overall quality radically by elevation of the ISO, and the AUTO ISO feature of the K10 does a good job, but I suggest using it more aggressively, by setting the upper range to ISO 800 on a K10, if you are hand held.
I agree with most of what you are saying, but let me ask you a simple question. Would you accept a DA*16-50 copy that is not as sharp as the kit lens as demonstrated on a well-conducted newspaper test?
02-17-2008, 04:12 PM   #430
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I agree with ChrisA. That image does not seem to be blurred, but rather a victim of camera shake.

The more and more I see this lens, the more I think to wait for the DA 17-70/4 SDM and the DA* 60-250/4 for my zoom kit, rather than get this lens along with the 50-135/2.8, which isn't enough coverage for me to even consider it because it won't satisfy my requirements for a zoom kit.
02-17-2008, 04:25 PM   #431
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It's mounted on a tripod and the center is sharp no hint of shake. SR was turned off etc.

Yes there is a double image, but only in the corners.

It makes no sense to me.
02-17-2008, 05:08 PM   #432
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QuoteOriginally posted by rvannatta Quote
I am coming to believe there are more 'matching' issues around than we realize, and that it is an issue more evident for reasons we don't understand on the K10 than others.
Makes me wonder if I should send the K10D and the Lens to Pentax to get them 'matched' instead of returning the lens in hopes of getting one that is a bit better?
02-17-2008, 05:38 PM   #433
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tbear Quote
I agree with most of what you are saying, but let me ask you a simple question. Would you accept a DA*16-50 copy that is not as sharp as the kit lens as demonstrated on a well-conducted newspaper test?
I don't own a kit lens so don't have to make that decision. Likewise you haven't seen me suggesting that one should put their kit lens in the round file and run out and get one of these.

I've spent my life buying machinery that other people couldn't figure out how to use successfully and studying out it's quirks and making the best of it. Returning things is not my style evenif I could. I have little doubt but what the lens that I have was a return that an unscruplous dealer sold out be back door but that is my stupiditiy. It is unfortunate that Pentax doesn't put out a recall on that lens and try and get all the lemons off the market so they don't keep recirculating and degrading the reputation of pentax optics

The problems however are not all the lens. IT is a difficult lens to get to know, but once you understand its behavior a bit, you get a lot better results than just out of the box. I"ve used pentax stuff for over 40 years and owned dozens of different Pentax lenses.

While I am reluctant to describe it as the worst pentax lens I've ever touched I'm havng trouble thinking of one that hasa been more disappointing as I think we have all had very high expectations for it, and it has come up short when matched to expectations. We must bear in mind dthat the lens that is everything to everyone hasn't been made yet.

Frankly as I have said, I think part of the issues are with the body/and or software, and I look for happier days with the K20
02-17-2008, 07:00 PM   #434
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QuoteOriginally posted by little laker Quote
What's the image quality like on an everyday photograph?
The one I tried had serious misfocus issues, esp near infinity..
02-17-2008, 07:08 PM   #435
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QuoteOriginally posted by jgredline Quote
Yours is every bit as awefull as my first two copies where...So sad...So sad...
Thats what my Tamrom 28-70 looked like at F2.8

Dave
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