Question for 16-50mm owners

lithos · 04-29-2008, 02:47 PM

Here's a question: anyone got the original version of this lens?

By which I mean the Tokina.

hinckc · 04-29-2008, 04:28 PM

Originally posted by benjikan

It has more to do with the K10D than the lens.

I agree with this, based on almost nothing except reading user reports here, and my experience trying 2 DA*'s, one at my local shop, and one I purchased at B&H. The only reason I didn't buy the first one was because it was priced 30% more than B&H... (really, I wanted to support my local shop, but they wouldn't budge!)

If my copy of the DA* 16-50 hadn't met my expectations, I would have sent my K10D plus my DA* back in for repair, not just the lens.

I'm guessing that by waiting nearly 18 months to purchase my K10D I got a much later hardware revision than those who purchases shortly after release (I'm on H/W rev2.1)

I tried my DA* over the weekend on my K100D and it was sweet on that camera, too, even if it looked a little too big!

There was more lens than camera!

I think that Klaus freaked a lot of people out, and the more people heard the more they tested. As a computer scientist I am used to testing and had a fair amount of difficulty getting a good reliable test setup at 16mm/f2.8. It's pretty tough. All tolerances are pretty tight at 16mm/f2.8.

Mind you, I'm not saying there are no problems, so please no one take offense. I just suspect, along with Ben, that most of the problems are with the camera, not so much the lens.

-Chris

**Canada_Rockies** · 04-29-2008, 05:33 PM

Originally posted by hinckc

I tried my DA* over the weekend on my K100D and it was sweet on that camera, too, even if it looked a little too big!

There was more lens than camera!

-Chris

You need to add the grip. Then it just looks GOOOOOOOD!

hinckc · 04-29-2008, 06:23 PM

Hi Albert,

No (1st party) grip for the K100D.

Oh, and what did I purchase with the price difference between my local shop, and B&H?
A grip for my K10D! It was almost like getting a free battery grip! How could I resist!?!

I'll agree, on the K10D, plus the grip, it sure looks great and sees great, too!!!

-Chris

martin s · 05-12-2008, 04:03 AM

How frequently has this lens been returned for calibration?? My lens seem to lack sharpness, and I was wondering if this is a common problem??

I seem to remember some QC problems.

Has Pentax been cooperative for problems like this??

Also, have the returned lenses actually been sharper after the calibration??

Please advise.

Martin

bymy141 · 05-12-2008, 06:55 AM

Originally posted by martin s

How frequently has this lens been returned for calibration?? My lens seem to lack sharpness, and I was wondering if this is a common problem??

I seem to remember some QC problems.

Has Pentax been cooperative for problems like this??

Also, have the returned lenses actually been sharper after the calibration??

Please advise.

Martin

Martin,

There have been numerous threads on this subject.
You might want to search the forum for them, before reacting some more.
There is even a thread collecting serial numbers of good and bad 16-50mm lenses.
You might want to compare your lens sn with there.

Most issues seem to be a combination of the camera and the lens.
People do report back focus issues somewhat more than front focus I believe.
Most of these issues seem to be camera problems, to be corrected by Pentax. Send the camera in for tuning.

Also people have lenses with lack of corner sharpness.
If this is what you experience, return the lens for a new copy.
Since the f2.8 DOF is very shallow, there has been a lot of discussion how to properly test this.
I advise you to have a look at these discussions as well, before returning your lens.

Most of the problems seem to stem from the earlier batches produced, while not all lenses were having problems.
My copy is fine, my K10D is fine, while the guy with the lens with my serial number + 1 has problems.

It also seems that Pentax finally got most QA problems under control now and we have seen little issues reported lately from the latest batches produced.

Success,

- Bert

wlachan · 05-12-2008, 01:58 PM

My advice is if any Pentax lenses that are not sharp or misaligned, don't bother have it serviced, just exchange it while you can. The chance of the lens will come back any better is very slim IMHO.

regken · 05-12-2008, 03:10 PM

Originally posted by bymy141

Martin,

It also seems that Pentax finally got most QA problems under control now and we have seen little issues reported lately from the latest batches produced.

Success,

- Bert

I disagree. Now reports are starting to come out that after some use things like the weather sealing O rings are popping out.

mk07138 · 05-12-2008, 06:45 PM

I have a good copy of the 16-50mm and I really love this lens. I just noticed that despite the weather sealing there is a spec of dust just inside the first element or the first group of elements (i'm not sure exactly). Now I haven't noticed any effect of this dust on image quality, but because of my OCD and the money I paid for this lens its driving me nuts.

Is this something I can complain about and maybe get fixed? Or is it something that I should just deal with and attempt to overcome the OCD?

Thanks for the input.

roentarre · 05-12-2008, 07:15 PM

It should not effect your image quality of the lens. Most people would be reluctant to allow exchange and it does not need repair at all.

If you have seen the condition of the lenses from my friends, you would be in awe! Actually these lenses still produce stellar images!

**Canada_Rockies** · 05-12-2008, 07:18 PM

Originally posted by mk07138

I have a good copy of the 16-50mm and I really love this lens. I just noticed that despite the weather sealing there is a spec of dust just inside the first element or the first group of elements (i'm not sure exactly). Now I haven't noticed any effect of this dust on image quality, but because of my OCD and the money I paid for this lens its driving me nuts.

Is this something I can complain about and maybe get fixed? Or is it something that I should just deal with and attempt to overcome the OCD?

Thanks for the input.

I think every lens I own, with the exception of the DA* 50-135 has at least one spec of dust in it. My 400 was purchased with "tiny bubbles" in the front element. None of this seems to affect the image quality. The 50-135 has no dust because I haven't used it for more than a few times.

Zooms are particularly prone to picking up some dust as air moves in and out of the housing while the lens zooms. It gets physically longer, taking in air, and shorter pushing it out again.

anomaly · 05-12-2008, 07:32 PM

The K20D is user calibratable but if you have a K10D you have to send it in with the lens to get it working.

**Canada_Rockies** · 05-12-2008, 08:08 PM

Originally posted by martin s

How frequently has this lens been returned for calibration?? My lens seem to lack sharpness, and I was wondering if this is a common problem??

I seem to remember some QC problems.

Has Pentax been cooperative for problems like this??

Also, have the returned lenses actually been sharper after the calibration??

Please advise.

Martin

Make sure that you actually have a problem with the lens before you ship it off.

Take some careful shots of detailed flat objects at over a meter from the camera, (Lowell Goudge likes brick walls) with the back of the camera absolutely parallel to the wall or whatever.

At 16mm at f/2.8, you will need something the camera can truly focus on. I would use the center focus spot only. I also expect a certain amount of softness at the edges wide open at 16mm. If the softness does not get dramatically better by f/5.6, you might have a problem lens.

Also adjust your diopter exactly to your vision. I like to aim the camera at the sky and make the engraved lines on the focusing screen as sharp as possible. Then see if you can manually focus better than the camera.

Try this at various focal lengths out to 50mm. If you then detect a problem, send both the lens and the camera in for adjustment. If you have other Pentax lenses, send them all. Pentax actually will adjust the camera to work properly with each of four lenses, after doing an overall adjustment. They take a while to do this, apparently, but they do do it. I understand that in certain countries you can pay for "express service".

Good luck!

bymy141 · 05-13-2008, 12:51 AM

Originally posted by regken

I disagree. Now reports are starting to come out that after some use things like the weather sealing O rings are popping out.

You are right, there have been posts like that.
It is a different problem though; you'll have sharp pictures with a lens that is not weather proof anymore.

- Bert

codiac2600 · 05-13-2008, 06:50 AM

Originally posted by bymy141

You are right, there have been posts like that.
It is a different problem though; you'll have sharp pictures with a lens that is not weather proof anymore.

- Bert

Who are these people that say this? I've abused my 16-50 and have had it since almost day one and it's never happened nor can I see this happening by the design. More people have the 50-135 AFAIK and this issue hasn't come up yet and it's the SAME o-ring design. This is more internet garbage as I can see and after selling our 18th 16-50 at the store yesterday we still haven't had a bad copy with IQ.

I'm going to go shoot some walls or wrinkled paper to test my lenses now.

View Poll Results: Is this DA*16-50mm good or bad?
Keep it -- it's good.	23	88.46%
Return it or send it in for repair.	3	11.54%
Voters: 26. You may not vote on this poll

05-12-2008, 04:03 AM	#680
martin s Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: New Jersey Posts: 20	Return 16-50 f 2.8 lens to Pentax for calibration. How frequently has this lens been returned for calibration?? My lens seem to lack sharpness, and I was wondering if this is a common problem?? I seem to remember some QC problems. Has Pentax been cooperative for problems like this?? Also, have the returned lenses actually been sharper after the calibration?? Please advise. Martin

05-12-2008, 06:45 PM	#684
mk07138 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Frostburg Maryland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 151	*Dust in DA 16-50mm** I have a good copy of the 16-50mm and I really love this lens. I just noticed that despite the weather sealing there is a spec of dust just inside the first element or the first group of elements (i'm not sure exactly). Now I haven't noticed any effect of this dust on image quality, but because of my OCD and the money I paid for this lens its driving me nuts. Is this something I can complain about and maybe get fixed? Or is it something that I should just deal with and attempt to overcome the OCD? Thanks for the input.

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04-29-2008, 02:47 PM	#676
lithos Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Brisbane, QLD, AUS Posts: 3,261	Here's a question: anyone got the original version of this lens? By which I mean the Tokina.

04-29-2008, 04:28 PM	#677
hinckc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: New Jersey, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 298	Originally posted by benjikan It has more to do with the K10D than the lens. I agree with this, based on almost nothing except reading user reports here, and my experience trying 2 DA's, one at my local shop, and one I purchased at B&H. The only reason I didn't buy the first one was because it was priced 30% more than B&H... (really, I wanted to support my local shop, but they wouldn't budge!) If my copy of the DA 16-50 hadn't met my expectations, I would have sent my K10D plus my DA* back in for repair, not just the lens. I'm guessing that by waiting nearly 18 months to purchase my K10D I got a much later hardware revision than those who purchases shortly after release (I'm on H/W rev2.1) I tried my DA* over the weekend on my K100D and it was sweet on that camera, too, even if it looked a little too big! There was more lens than camera! I think that Klaus freaked a lot of people out, and the more people heard the more they tested. As a computer scientist I am used to testing and had a fair amount of difficulty getting a good reliable test setup at 16mm/f2.8. It's pretty tough. All tolerances are pretty tight at 16mm/f2.8. Mind you, I'm not saying there are no problems, so please no one take offense. I just suspect, along with Ben, that most of the problems are with the camera, not so much the lens. -Chris

04-29-2008, 05:33 PM	#678
Canada_Rockies Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Sparwood, BC, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,385	Originally posted by hinckc I tried my DA* over the weekend on my K100D and it was sweet on that camera, too, even if it looked a little too big! There was more lens than camera! -Chris You need to add the grip. Then it just looks GOOOOOOOD!

04-29-2008, 06:23 PM	#679
hinckc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: New Jersey, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 298	Hi Albert, No (1st party) grip for the K100D. Oh, and what did I purchase with the price difference between my local shop, and B&H? A grip for my K10D! It was almost like getting a free battery grip! How could I resist!?! I'll agree, on the K10D, plus the grip, it sure looks great and sees great, too!!! -Chris

05-12-2008, 06:55 AM	#681
bymy141 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,563	Originally posted by martin s How frequently has this lens been returned for calibration?? My lens seem to lack sharpness, and I was wondering if this is a common problem?? I seem to remember some QC problems. Has Pentax been cooperative for problems like this?? Also, have the returned lenses actually been sharper after the calibration?? Please advise. Martin Martin, There have been numerous threads on this subject. You might want to search the forum for them, before reacting some more. There is even a thread collecting serial numbers of good and bad 16-50mm lenses. You might want to compare your lens sn with there. Most issues seem to be a combination of the camera and the lens. People do report back focus issues somewhat more than front focus I believe. Most of these issues seem to be camera problems, to be corrected by Pentax. Send the camera in for tuning. Also people have lenses with lack of corner sharpness. If this is what you experience, return the lens for a new copy. Since the f2.8 DOF is very shallow, there has been a lot of discussion how to properly test this. I advise you to have a look at these discussions as well, before returning your lens. Most of the problems seem to stem from the earlier batches produced, while not all lenses were having problems. My copy is fine, my K10D is fine, while the guy with the lens with my serial number + 1 has problems. It also seems that Pentax finally got most QA problems under control now and we have seen little issues reported lately from the latest batches produced. Success, - Bert

05-12-2008, 01:58 PM	#682
wlachan Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Canada Photos: Albums Posts: 2,625	My advice is if any Pentax lenses that are not sharp or misaligned, don't bother have it serviced, just exchange it while you can. The chance of the lens will come back any better is very slim IMHO.

05-12-2008, 03:10 PM	#683
regken Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bangor, Maine Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,377	Originally posted by bymy141 Martin, It also seems that Pentax finally got most QA problems under control now and we have seen little issues reported lately from the latest batches produced. Success, - Bert I disagree. Now reports are starting to come out that after some use things like the weather sealing O rings are popping out.

05-12-2008, 07:15 PM	#685
roentarre Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 11,783	It should not effect your image quality of the lens. Most people would be reluctant to allow exchange and it does not need repair at all. If you have seen the condition of the lenses from my friends, you would be in awe! Actually these lenses still produce stellar images!

05-12-2008, 07:18 PM	#686
Canada_Rockies Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Sparwood, BC, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,385	Originally posted by mk07138 I have a good copy of the 16-50mm and I really love this lens. I just noticed that despite the weather sealing there is a spec of dust just inside the first element or the first group of elements (i'm not sure exactly). Now I haven't noticed any effect of this dust on image quality, but because of my OCD and the money I paid for this lens its driving me nuts. Is this something I can complain about and maybe get fixed? Or is it something that I should just deal with and attempt to overcome the OCD? Thanks for the input. I think every lens I own, with the exception of the DA* 50-135 has at least one spec of dust in it. My 400 was purchased with "tiny bubbles" in the front element. None of this seems to affect the image quality. The 50-135 has no dust because I haven't used it for more than a few times. Zooms are particularly prone to picking up some dust as air moves in and out of the housing while the lens zooms. It gets physically longer, taking in air, and shorter pushing it out again.

05-12-2008, 07:32 PM	#687
anomaly Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Barbados Photos: Gallery Posts: 264	The K20D is user calibratable but if you have a K10D you have to send it in with the lens to get it working.

05-12-2008, 08:08 PM	#688
Canada_Rockies Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Sparwood, BC, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,385	Originally posted by martin s How frequently has this lens been returned for calibration?? My lens seem to lack sharpness, and I was wondering if this is a common problem?? I seem to remember some QC problems. Has Pentax been cooperative for problems like this?? Also, have the returned lenses actually been sharper after the calibration?? Please advise. Martin Make sure that you actually have a problem with the lens before you ship it off. Take some careful shots of detailed flat objects at over a meter from the camera, (Lowell Goudge likes brick walls) with the back of the camera absolutely parallel to the wall or whatever. At 16mm at f/2.8, you will need something the camera can truly focus on. I would use the center focus spot only. I also expect a certain amount of softness at the edges wide open at 16mm. If the softness does not get dramatically better by f/5.6, you might have a problem lens. Also adjust your diopter exactly to your vision. I like to aim the camera at the sky and make the engraved lines on the focusing screen as sharp as possible. Then see if you can manually focus better than the camera. Try this at various focal lengths out to 50mm. If you then detect a problem, send both the lens and the camera in for adjustment. If you have other Pentax lenses, send them all. Pentax actually will adjust the camera to work properly with each of four lenses, after doing an overall adjustment. They take a while to do this, apparently, but they do do it. I understand that in certain countries you can pay for "express service". Good luck!

05-13-2008, 12:51 AM	#689
bymy141 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,563	Originally posted by regken I disagree. Now reports are starting to come out that after some use things like the weather sealing O rings are popping out. You are right, there have been posts like that. It is a different problem though; you'll have sharp pictures with a lens that is not weather proof anymore. - Bert

05-13-2008, 06:50 AM	#690
codiac2600 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Rockford, Illinois Posts: 2,027	Originally posted by bymy141 You are right, there have been posts like that. It is a different problem though; you'll have sharp pictures with a lens that is not weather proof anymore. - Bert Who are these people that say this? I've abused my 16-50 and have had it since almost day one and it's never happened nor can I see this happening by the design. More people have the 50-135 AFAIK and this issue hasn't come up yet and it's the SAME o-ring design. This is more internet garbage as I can see and after selling our 18th 16-50 at the store yesterday we still haven't had a bad copy with IQ. I'm going to go shoot some walls or wrinkled paper to test my lenses now.