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01-23-2009, 02:58 PM   #16
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In studio the 77 is a no brainer, just make sure you have a clean background without contrasty edges. In a club i'd be edgy about it unless you're a REALLY quick MF expert.

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01-23-2009, 04:14 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by quenched Quote
(some clients will insist on FF and i will borrow a 1ds)
What the? Why would you insist FF?
01-23-2009, 08:46 PM   #18
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Same reasons they might have insisted on medium-format film in the past.

And please, in general, reading posts in all caps is a bit unpleasant.
01-23-2009, 08:53 PM   #19
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I would have thought that more importance would be placed on the person behind the camera vs the camera taking the picture. I honestly don't think that a "professonal" would be able to tell the difference between an APS-C camera at 14 MP vs a FF camera at 12 MP if they used high quality glass, specially if it's in a studio setting.

01-23-2009, 09:12 PM   #20
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Anyone that's read Ben's & others posts of studio work anytime over the past year since the K20D came out knows what it's capable of... we all know better. You may have seen that remarkable comparo (on luminous landscape I believe?) proving how the most expensive & esoteric camera can't outdo a commodity camera and lens (not Pentax, regardless). But the fact remains the customer is paying the bill. If they are insisting on a FF camera, that's what they get. No doubt attaining the gear increases their bill accordingly, + an up-charge. So really, wtf about all this? that's not what the OP intended this thread to be all about and there's really no call for all those that have gotten so hung-up about it. quenched thanx for your thoughts. I don't have anything to share other than what's been suggested. All those lenses have been discussed to death so browsing the SLR Lens forum, the review section, and search, will be your best friend.
01-24-2009, 12:06 AM   #21
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I wasn't stuck on it...just curious why they would absolutely insist on a certain camera. The clients must want to print big...no...humongous. If I had a K20, I wouldn't hesitate to go poster size on a regular basis.
01-24-2009, 01:06 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by turbosaturn Quote
I would have thought that more importance would be placed on the person behind the camera vs the camera taking the picture. I honestly don't think that a "professonal" would be able to tell the difference between an APS-C camera at 14 MP vs a FF camera at 12 MP if they used high quality glass, specially if it's in a studio setting.
The FF requirement does not strike me as unusual. Back in the film days, nature magazines (birds, wildlife, and landscapes) would often require Kodachrome slides if the submission was on 35mm film. Anything with more grain was unacceptable...period. Likewise, product shots were NEVER done on anything less than MF regardless of what film was used.

In the publishing, advertising, and marketing industries the customer knows the technology and often they have specific requirements.

Steve
01-24-2009, 02:27 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
In the publishing, advertising, and marketing industries the customer knows the technology and often they have specific requirements.

I was in publishing and we did have requirements. Back in the analog days it was color positive; when dSLR became viable, 10MP was the requirement, for an A4 sized music mag. There never was a requirement for sensor size, and I tend to agree with people who find that requirement odd.


I mean, all else equal (well, by definition ;-), what you get with an APS-C is exactly the same as the cropped center area of an equivalent FF, right? So, would it be OK for the photographer to shoot FF and crop to an APS-C size, but not for the photographer to shoot APS-C without crop?

It doesn't make too much sense.

If there is a really particular kind of picture that is being asked for... say just portraits from a certain distance that NEED to have the exact right kind of FOV and compression, etc., which together mandate, for example, the use of an 85mm prime + an FF shot from 3 m away, then sure; but barring strange situations like that, I don't see any legitimate reasons.


EXCEPT: FF cameras do tend to be, over all, the cream of the crop. It's not only their sensor size but everything else about them that tend to be better than their APS-C/H brothers. So, perhaps the client just wants the photographer to use the best DSLRs out there, and they make that point by saying "FF only". 'Course, everything else progresses regarding DLSRs, so there's no way that a 1Ds from 2002 is better than the best high-end APS-Cs out there today. Even if it is, it won't be for long. Therefore, specifying "FF only" still makes little sense to me ;p

01-24-2009, 06:23 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Erasmo Quote
What the? Why would you insist FF?
Because the image could wind up on a bus stop or billboard.

In the past my 30d (never a body obsessor) wouldnt cut it and i would borrow a mates 1ds2. (my prime glass would smoke L zooms )

I have only been digital for a couple of years and could care less for the prattle, i just want to get the shot. I still have 20 rolls of medium and 35 in the fridge yet clients want digi now....

I did a shoot for an FF client the other day with the k20, he is stoked with the result and none the wiser.

Last edited by quenched; 01-24-2009 at 06:42 AM. Reason: finished reading thread
01-24-2009, 06:57 AM   #25
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Clients often specify things based on specific technologies that we as professionals realise are irrelevant.

To continue the audio analogy: clients will specify certain microphones (must be Neumann) or outboard gear (must have Lexicon) or software (must be ProTools) because they have heard that's what other people use, or because there is a mystique involved.

It doesn't mean they are necessarily any better or that there aren't alternatives.
01-24-2009, 07:58 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by turbosaturn Quote
I would have thought that more importance would be placed on the person behind the camera vs the camera taking the picture. I honestly don't think that a "professonal" would be able to tell the difference between an APS-C camera at 14 MP vs a FF camera at 12 MP if they used high quality glass, specially if it's in a studio setting.
There are many reasons a client may insist on using a certain camera format or even camera type. That was always the case, even in film days. There might be basic quality considerations, but there is also the simple fact, that all digital cameras will produce unique images in terms of colour rendering and contrast. So it is much easier during the retouching and reproduction stage, to insist on a single camera modell to faciliate the workflow. A good example is fashion, where you may have a couple of different photogs working for a fashion catalogue. The catalogue producers will usually insist on specific equipment to speed up the post-production (automated colour correction etc.) and to keep cost lower.

Ben
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