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01-23-2009, 10:06 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by asdf Quote
I uploaded videos comparing the noise of the DA 17-70 SDM with the kit lens mark II. (YouTube - pentaxlan's Channel)
OK Thanks.

HAH! I was sitting there thinking "Noise...lens???"...until I realised you were talking about AF noise. I had just posted about photo noise

I will check it out.

Nick

01-23-2009, 10:13 PM   #17
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Hey ain't the Web great?

Thanks for those videos. Very helpful. So, a little noisier, but still pretty quick. Lookin' good.

Nick
01-24-2009, 12:08 AM   #18
Igilligan
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Hi Nick

QuoteOriginally posted by OldNick Quote
Thanks for the reply.

First question. Why did you choose the step up to the K20D?

I wanted the new sensor, for crops... and boy it really makes a difference on the amount you can crop and still have a good shot.
Also the ability to fine tune the AF to each lens was something I wanted. Internal Pixel Mapping of dead pixels was also something I wanted.
I have enjoyed my K100d and will keep it as it is a very nice back up camera. Decent ISO 1600 and even 3200 in a pinch. But the
High ISO noise of the K20 is a finer grain, very usable looking noise. It has more features than I may ever use but they are there if I take the time
and there is a need. My K100d was not SDM lens compatible and I want to eventually get some of the DA* lenses like the DA 50-135.
Plus the K20d kit was on sale for 699 and I could not ignore it anymore.


I bought the s100 because it _is_ a pretty good camera and very versatile in a single package. I will probably keep it for common work when I don't want to pack a suitcase. However it is a bit soft at either end and in many shots, especially at wide angle, its CA is shocking. I take your point about the Tamron. It's a "too good to be true" at the price, AFAIAC.

The tamron 70-300 reminds me a bit of my S6000 lens. In the right conditions it looks really good. But push it in high contrast and the PF begins to bloom.
You know what I mean.
From what I have seen the 55-300 is much better. But I have never shot it.

At 300mm, the S100 is f5.3, so yes, 5.8 is a bit of a drop. I would have to hope that the IQ is a gain here, because they have not tried to push the glass.

With the crop ability of the K20d you could get a shorter/faster lens and probably crop. Or even pull the 55-300 back
to 210mm where it is 4.5 and crop in if you need a fast SS.


I usually spend my time at either end of the zoom! I am either trying to take pictures of surfers/kite surfers, or wide-angling a building....unless I want to do some macro work....sigh. Macro's OK as I have an extender.

I have some dedicated macro lenses that are very good. But I also use my old raynox 250 on my cheap primes and do very well.
The S100 with its small sensor DOF is tough to beat as a macro shooter.
Here is a shot with a 25 dollar Russian kit lens the Helios 44M 58mm and the raynox




The S100 does a lot of what I want to do. but it tries too hard, I think. The small sensor and large pixel count make it a bit noisy at higher ISOs too, although they have done very well. It also compromises a lot in areas like continuous mode, to the point where in most situations I am afraid to use it.

One thing I really do notice about all non-DSLR cameras is the lack of aperture range. While I realise that f8 on a smaller sensor is "like f22" (etc) on a larger sensor, I noticed the trouble when I am tracking sports in varying light conditions., preparing for the "the shot". Because I use shutter priority for these, I run the range of aperture very quickly as I move from down sun into up sun, and have to change ISO! This of course ruins the track. I would rather up the ISO, then start at a large aperture and have the aperture range to maintain the shutter speed. The S100 does have f11, but only in full manual, which does not suit a light-changing track at all.
II
Interesting about the old primes. I have some, and a really nice K-mount Tokina 50-250 from my film days.. I was just not sure about its suitability for DSLR work.
Some of the Tokina's are nice lenses. I do not know the 50-250 but I imagine it would do well on the dlsrs as I have some very cheap old MF zooms
that do quite well. In fact for 30 dollars I just picked up a tamron adaptal 80-210 F3.8 that I am having a lot of fun with.

Obviously MF is not going to do tracking shots well and even AF on the pentax is less than great in tracking subjects. But for most of my kind of shooting
the K20d is a great camera. If tracking af and fps are important to you I would also take a good look at the Nikons.

In the end if it does come down to the K200 and the K20d... I recommend the K20d. The extra couple of hundred will seem like small change
once the lens addiction gets a hold of you.
Good luck in the hunt...
01-24-2009, 01:59 AM   #19
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"...are both", plus...

QuoteOriginally posted by OldNick Quote
Some nice shots there! Are these pretty much out of the camera regarding colour, saturation etc? And also not touched by the camera? The colours a very rich. No sign of trouble with snow either. It's notorious for CA in scenes.

There is a shot of a Carolina wren there at ISO 400. It has more noise than I would have expected. Is it a crop, or brightened?.......or both
Glad you stopped by for a visit.

If a shot is square, that's a pretty good clue that it was cropped.

The Carolina Wren shots "...are both", plus over sharpened.

In addition to being about 100% crops, the images suffer from camera shake. As I recall, the temp was about 5F on a gusty dull morning. Plus, the bird was very active in a high contrast setting. The camera's light meter may have been fooled into taking into account a white wall beyond the subject. This under exposed the subject necessitating adjustments. Given the poor conditions, one should not be surprised to see noise at iso100.

Anyway, while the bird did not seem to mind, the lens and photographer were pushed to their limits.

Thanks for your comments and cheers...

01-24-2009, 04:58 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Michaelina2 Quote
Glad you stopped by for a visit.

If a shot is square, that's a pretty good clue that it was cropped.

The Carolina Wren shots "...are both", plus over sharpened.

In addition to being about 100% crops, the images suffer from camera shake. As I recall, the temp was about 5F on a gusty dull morning. Plus, the bird was very active in a high contrast setting. The camera's light meter may have been fooled into taking into account a white wall beyond the subject. This under exposed the subject necessitating adjustments. Given the poor conditions, one should not be surprised to see noise at iso100.

Anyway, while the bird did not seem to mind, the lens and photographer were pushed to their limits.

Thanks for your comments and cheers...
Point taken about the square shot. I was really meaning"heavily cropped", which you have answered.

As for all the other stuff, I have never been shooting in that temp range, but have _all_ the other "stuff"...hyperactive subject, huge crop, wind shake, underexposed because of weird conditions..so believe me I sympathise.

May I suggest a possible helper? As one photo overprocessor to another , I often use Edge Preserving Smooth in Paint Shop Pro (don't know what PS calls it)
and that solves a lot of problems left over after brightening, sharpening etc. , when Noise Removal does not cut the mustard.

I was not intending a put down or to make you want to excuse yourself. I am always pushing whatever gear I have, trying to get that shot that is precious to me, because I _got_ it. I think you tend that way also, from what I saw on your site. Results can be stunning.

I checked out all the site shots for the 55-300, and browsed the rest. I am going back soon to have a more in-depth look. Some really beautiful stuff there. I grew up with snow, lost it when I was 7 (parentally-controlled relocation), and have not seen it since.

Nick
01-24-2009, 05:51 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Igilligan Quote
Some of the Tokina's are nice lenses. I do not know the 50-250 but I imagine it would do well on the dlsrs as I have some very cheap old MF zooms
that do quite well. In fact for 30 dollars I just picked up a tamron adaptal 80-210 F3.8 that I am having a lot of fun with.

Obviously MF is not going to do tracking shots well and even AF on the pentax is less than great in tracking subjects. But for most of my kind of shooting
the K20d is a great camera. If tracking af and fps are important to you I would also take a good look at the Nikons.

In the end if it does come down to the K200 and the K20d... I recommend the K20d. The extra couple of hundred will seem like small change
once the lens addiction gets a hold of you.
Good luck in the hunt...
I checked the quote. I don't _think_ I am going to post the shot again.

The 50-250 is a really nice film lens. It cost me $400 more years ago than I care to remember. It was huge buy for me, and I know the lens rivalled Pentax stuff for quality. I have actually seen a couple of guys posting that they use this lens and get great results on DSLRs.

Trouble is, it has a mechanical aperture interface with the camera, and I am not sure if that is going to work with later AF K mount stuff. I can handle _focus_ with tracking (most of my stuff involves side tracking and little distance change, and if I can go to f8 or smaller then it's fine. Lack of light is rarely a problem) but if the aperture is not going to be translatable, then I am done with that lens.

What is the situation here? How does the DSLR link with lenses regarding aperture? I have a highly mechanical lever-based setup on the Tokina.

For motor racing, this would be a problem only rarely. You pick a corner and wait for shots. manual focus is often the best way to go, because you can pre-focus and there is then no (well little) shutter lag.

For surf and wind sports, it comes up often...you are never sure when the action will happen, and the light varies enormously.

I can see that the in-body AF is "lacking for tracking" (not a good advertising slogan), but $$ for $$, I am hoping that Pentax rewards me with superb glass. That is what I am hearing. I am getting sufficient tracking _focus_ with my s100, which is notoriously slow when compared to DSLRs.

I think I would rather get 1 superb shot in 20 than 10 lesser results. So often I take a shot where everything went right, but because I was stressing the quality of the lens/sensor, the shot was not a killer.

At present I am the king of Post Process. While I can achieve huge lifts to shots that were OK (stressed out s100...soft...CA etc) , I would like to make good shots _really_ good.

I know it's not all about the gear, but if you get a cracker of a shot, and the gear simply makes it colourless or soft, it's a bummer.

...and thanks from my wife for the bit about lens addiction .... and I never thought about Nikon....Canon 450D was my other choice.

Sadly, I have a really nice 28mm Pentax manual prime that has mould

I really appreciate this chance to talk this through guys. I really did choose the s100 because I got so confused and afraid about lens choice ..... vs $$$ .

Sorry."If tracking af and fps are important to you I would also take a good look at the Nikons. " What us FPS? Probably a big Brain Dip on my part.

Nick
01-24-2009, 06:03 AM   #22
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gus.

Amaxing shot of the flowers and fruit! I have some Raynox gear, by where of macro and tele extenders. They are not too shabby....or cheap.

Not going to quote. I have read what you say, and it all makes a LOT of sense(or questions (??) ) Thank you for putting in the effort.

I know that it's easy to hear what you want to hear, but a couple of posts have said what I wanted to hear..... because they _felt_ as I do and said so.

I am not just wating gor the "right answer"
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