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02-02-2009, 06:44 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by ytterbium Quote
If i look at the 16-45,16-50@16 or even 14/2.8 and 12-24, they all have quite pronounced distortions.. this one seem somewhat like 21 ltd, 12-24@18 or better (keep the size and 15mm in mind!!!).
The 21mm Ltd has quite pronounced distortion for a prime (2% barrel). The 16-45 has 2.5% barrel at 16mm and .47 pincushion at 24mm, which means if you interpolate it has close to zero distortion at 21mm. According to Photozone the 16-45 is also sharper at every aperture from F4 up (using the 16-45's 24mm measurements). F/3.2 is 2/3 stop faster than F4, but still not enough for indoors. I don't see 21mm as that useful a focal length either, I'd much rather have 15 and 28. All in all the 21 Ltd is not very interesting to me compared to the 15.

I agree, the 15mm distortion looks good in these photos. Hopefully they haven't been corrected and the price isn't out of whack (price is another issue I have with the 21mm Ltd).

02-02-2009, 07:20 PM   #17
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Why is this Ltd so slow? It better be relatively cheap. I'm thinking sub $400. Maybe I don't see who needs this lens.
02-02-2009, 07:20 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote

I agree, the 15mm distortion looks good in these photos. Hopefully they haven't been corrected and the price isn't out of whack (price is another issue I have with the 21mm Ltd).
Well, that would be an interesting question - whether distortion was fixed in post. I'll bet the price is north of $500US - probably a tad more than the 35ltd.
02-02-2009, 07:23 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by ghost Quote
Why is this Ltd so slow? It better be relatively cheap. I'm thinking sub $350. Maybe I don't see who needs this lens.
It is slow because it is small/light. There is no free lunch. I doubt it will be cheap as it should have excellent build quality. I'm guessing above $500US msrp.

As for who needs this lens...well, it is about 24mm effective which can be a very good street, interior, landscape lens. Since it is relatively slow you'll be limited indoors in poor light, but SR can help. It should beat a zoom in both sharpness and color but that remains to be seen. If it has a certain "look" then it likely will be a hit. And face it, many here will buy it "just because."


Last edited by nostatic; 02-02-2009 at 08:20 PM.
02-02-2009, 07:30 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by ghost Quote
Why is this Ltd so slow? It better be relatively cheap. I'm thinking sub $400. Maybe I don't see who needs this lens.
It's slow because it's *tiny*. You want fast, get the DA14/2.8. But that would take up *way* too much room in my bag. And realistically, none of the situations where I envision using this lens would require f/2.8.
02-02-2009, 07:31 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
It is slow because it is light. There is no free lunch. I doubt it will be cheap as it should have excellent build quality. I'm guessing above $500US msrp.

As for who needs this lens...well, it is about 24mm effective which can be a very good street, interior, landscape lens. Since it is relatively slow you'll be limited indoors in poor light, but SR can help. It should beat a zoom in both sharpness and color but that remains to be seen. If it has a certain "look" then it likely will be a hit. And face it, many here will buy it "just because."
I guess I need to own a Ltd to fully understand it. After writing my comment, I decided to do some looking and found a DA lens that might be heavier, but is wider and faster for $500. I don't know about distortion though. The DA 14mm f2.8

Someday I hope I will own a Ltd.......

About the space concern... In my backpack my 50 takes up the same space as my 50-200. So if space is at a minimum, get a bigger bag. I can see the argument on the camera though.
02-02-2009, 07:45 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bophoto Quote
Here is DA15/4 between the new teleconverter and DA55.
The 15mm looks like it has 49mm filter size, doesn't it? Overall it looks about the size of the 35mm Ltd.
02-02-2009, 07:53 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by ghost Quote
. . . In my backpack my 50 takes up the same space as my 50-200. So if space is at a minimum, get a bigger bag. I can see the argument on the camera though.
When traveling by air, the bigger bag option may be "limited." Been there done that too many times.

02-02-2009, 08:23 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by ghost Quote
...

About the space concern... In my backpack my 50 takes up the same space as my 50-200. So if space is at a minimum, get a bigger bag. I can see the argument on the camera though.
I often don't carry a bag. Camera and whatever lens is on it. And I'll end up holding it for long periods at my side. I want a relatively light camera and a light/small/unobtrusive lens with excellent IQ and a "look". That would describe most of the limiteds...
02-02-2009, 09:48 PM   #25
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It looks good. Still torn between getting this or an LX3. Probably the LX3 first.
02-02-2009, 10:05 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
I often don't carry a bag. Camera and whatever lens is on it. And I'll end up holding it for long periods at my side. I want a relatively light camera and a light/small/unobtrusive lens with excellent IQ and a "look". That would describe most of the limiteds...
I see.... not using your camera and the desire to look cool.... Shoulda bought Canikon!

Just kidding of course. Ltd's serve a purpose, just not my needs right now (or price range )
02-02-2009, 10:59 PM   #27
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My goodness, this is a sight for sore eyes. For me the choice on the wider end was the 21Ltd and the 15Ltd or the 12-24. I wanted to stick to the Limiteds and if the 15 had been shelved I would have gone to the 14, probably, but I really wanted the 15Ltd. I took a chance, stuck to the prime Limited and bought the 21 and now we see pictures taken with the 15Ltd. I don't feel Ned would post these if it was going to be shelved.
I may be weird but 15>21>28>31>43>50>77 makes sense:-). 15>28 or 31 is to big a jump, the 21 fits perfectly.
I've read many times of people saying the 21 isn't a good focal length but I don't understand the reasoning, after all it's the field of view on aps-c of the 31Ltd on film, and I doubt this is a coincidence. If anything, to me 21 is in some cases not wide enough and this is where the 15 comes into play.
Ok, the 21 has some barrel distortion but I can live with it for landscapes and on the other hand, it is very sharp and it renders beautifully. My copy is solid, very well made in the Limited tradition. I held off buying it after reading things like "it's the weakest Limited lens" "it's slow" etc etc. But when I looked at pictures shot by talented photographers I saw amazing images. I don't understand people saying it's slow on one hand and loving it's size on the other. It's the same as loving the speed of the 14/2.8 but complaining of it's size. Pick one or the other. Let's say it's possible, how many would by a DA* 15/1.2 the size of the DA 21/3.2 Limited that had 9 rounded aperture blades, absolutely no aberrations of any kind and absolutely no distortions whatever for say $10,000? Everybody would love it but all would complain of the price. I bet, sometimes, the engineers just want throw up their hands and say F**K it, I wish I was a cabinetmaker!
I bet the DA 15/4 Limited will be expensive and it's slow but if it's well corrected, maybe more so than the lovely 21 Limited, and renders colors in the Limited tradition and is built to the Limited tradition, I think it will be a very desirable lens. I need to build my bank account, there are other issues that need addressed but I want this lens to complete my kit.
02-03-2009, 09:22 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by ghost Quote
About the space concern... In my backpack my 50 takes up the same space as my 50-200. So if space is at a minimum, get a bigger bag. I can see the argument on the camera though.
Sometimes (usually) I don't *want* to carry a big bag. Plus, the 15 is smaller than the 50, and the 14 is larger (and heavier) than the 50-200. The size and weight difference between the 15 and 14 is *enormous*. Adding the DA14 to my usual three-prime kit would practically double its weight. Adding the 15 would barely make a difference. If I expect to shoot a *lot* of wide angle, I'd make room for the 14, sure. but as something to have with me just in case, absolutely no way would I consider the 14 or any superwide zoom.
02-03-2009, 09:44 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by ghost Quote
Why is this Ltd so slow? It better be relatively cheap. I'm thinking sub $400. Maybe I don't see who needs this lens.
Because it's so small. A really big front element would allow for more speed, but
it's a trade-off. Personally I really like small primes.

The SMC-M 20 f/4 had an initial retail price of over $1500 in 2007 dollars in 1978 (over
$900 wholesale,) so this 15mm isn't really looking too bad, relatively


.
02-03-2009, 10:24 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Eaglerapids Quote
My goodness, this is a sight for sore eyes. For me the choice on the wider end was the 21Ltd and the 15Ltd or the 12-24. I wanted to stick to the Limiteds and if the 15 had been shelved I would have gone to the 14, probably, but I really wanted the 15Ltd. I took a chance, stuck to the prime Limited and bought the 21 and now we see pictures taken with the 15Ltd. I don't feel Ned would post these if it was going to be shelved.
I may be weird but 15>21>28>31>43>50>77 makes sense:-). 15>28 or 31 is to big a jump, the 21 fits perfectly.
I've read many times of people saying the 21 isn't a good focal length but I don't understand the reasoning, after all it's the field of view on aps-c of the 31Ltd on film, and I doubt this is a coincidence. If anything, to me 21 is in some cases not wide enough and this is where the 15 comes into play.
Ok, the 21 has some barrel distortion but I can live with it for landscapes and on the other hand, it is very sharp and it renders beautifully. My copy is solid, very well made in the Limited tradition. I held off buying it after reading things like "it's the weakest Limited lens" "it's slow" etc etc. But when I looked at pictures shot by talented photographers I saw amazing images. I don't understand people saying it's slow on one hand and loving it's size on the other. It's the same as loving the speed of the 14/2.8 but complaining of it's size. Pick one or the other. Let's say it's possible, how many would by a DA* 15/1.2 the size of the DA 21/3.2 Limited that had 9 rounded aperture blades, absolutely no aberrations of any kind and absolutely no distortions whatever for say $10,000? Everybody would love it but all would complain of the price. I bet, sometimes, the engineers just want throw up their hands and say F**K it, I wish I was a cabinetmaker!
I bet the DA 15/4 Limited will be expensive and it's slow but if it's well corrected, maybe more so than the lovely 21 Limited, and renders colors in the Limited tradition and is built to the Limited tradition, I think it will be a very desirable lens. I need to build my bank account, there are other issues that need addressed but I want this lens to complete my kit.
That's a lot of lenses haha I'm fine with the 15 > 21 > 35/40 > 70. Actually that's a lot of lenses for me!

I'm with you there, actually the 21 is my favorite lens at the moment. Sure it's slow but it's such a great focal length. Not too wide to have too much distortion on people, but wide enough so you get to push in tight and get some really interesting photos.

Actually I think that's what I like about it. It's perfect for INTERESTING shots. Not the "prettiest" or most flattering, but interesting. Love pushing in tight with that lens. It's sharp, renders great, tiny and beautifully made. I'm happy.

I can't wait for this 15! I've been really missing my Sigma 10-20. This 15 should fit the bill for my ultra-wide work.
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