FA ltd or DA ltd

**rparmar** · 02-11-2009, 05:30 AM

Originally posted by eyou

for the 20-30mm theres a 28mm 2.8 for pretty cheap. maybe thats a decent bang for buck combo

Find a Vivitar 28mm f/2 and stop it down one. Better quality than a Pentax lens and way cheaper. A great perspective to shoot with. Manual focus not a problem in the wide realm. Much discussion here.

(Minor correction: they used to be dead cheap but now go for $120 or so. The cat is out of the bag on this one.)

roentarre · 02-11-2009, 06:05 AM

I love my Fa limited

Fa 31 ltd

fa 43 ltd

Fa 77 ltd

seacapt · 02-11-2009, 08:42 AM

The difference in cost is simple , the larger an area the image has to be projected on the more it costs to produce the optics.

If you knowthat this is the only camera you will own it makes more sense to go with the less expensive lens . However if you might become more serious about photography (yes film is capable of producing better quality images than any digital available today and there are alot of very nice used Pentax bodies on the market dirt cheap)or if down the road Pentax is forced by market demand to go to a "full frame" sensor in their digital SLRs , the FA will not become the the BetaMax of lenses.

If you intend to grow with photography in general and Pentax in particular and the extra $$$$ won't hurt you the FA is a better choice. BUT YOU DO KNOW WHAT THEY SAY ABOUT OPINIONS

Oh Yeah and don't worry about that "10 year old technology" , New and Improved usually means cheaper to build and is niether new or improved. Why do you think so many folks are doing flipflops on the sidewalk trying to get their hands on old Super Taks and old Fast 50's?

Marc Sabatella · 02-11-2009, 11:06 AM

Originally posted by eyou

also noticed theres no cheap old prime lenses in the 70-100mm range.

By "in the 70-100 range", are you meaning to exclude 100mm? The M100/2.8 is on the edge of the range, obviously, but runs only around $100 or so.

eyou · 02-12-2009, 11:25 AM

The more I research about these lenses, the harder it is to choose

Should have just bought all the DAs, ignorance is bliss

Originally posted by joelovotti

size vs speed and you pay for speed.
There are plenty of passionate photographers on this site that may jump in with strong opinions on this FA or that DA but it will all come down to subtleties.

So are the DAs smaller in size because they lack the speed (ie. more speed = more mechanical issues = more size) or because they are designed for the APC-S sensor so they can make it shorter?

Originally posted by rparmar

I've got two FA Limiteds and one DA Limited so that won't help you at all.

which ones are FA and which ones are DA? Why'd it pick it that way?

Originally posted by roentarre

I love my Fa limited

those pictures are rediculous. what is taht guy smashing over his head

Originally posted by seacapt

If you knowthat this is the only camera you will own...

already kind of wishing that maybe I had gotten a k20d... theres some features that I'm already missing (AF points, pressing the "green button" to get shutter speed in manual etc) that isnt in the k-m. It's so cheap now too... I know for sure that i will want a better camera, but the question is stay apc-s or FF if it ever comes out.

I feel costs aside, if full frame gives better quality images, in the future when the costs will be the same why stay with apc-s? I know I will keep these lenses at least for 5-10 years probably.

Originally posted by Marc Sabatella

By "in the 70-100 range", are you meaning to exclude 100mm? The M100/2.8 is on the edge of the range, obviously, but runs only around $100 or so.

By cheap old primes i mean <$50

When is the next camera convention that Pentax could announce their new lineup? I might have to wait for that to see if anything new and crazy comes out

axl · 02-12-2009, 01:03 PM

hard to say which way to go. I have DA40 and FA31. I love 40 to bits, it's a great lens and makes it's way on most of my outings, even if I'm not sure I'm going to take pics. Why?!? the relation between size and performance is astonishing!
Many mention FF option, frankly I don't think there is going to be one this or next year. I wish there wouldn't be FF at all and they'd roll 645D out insted, but that's stuff for another thread(s)...
anyway, even if Pentax will come out with FF DSLR I'm sure they'd incorporate something like Nikon did with their FF cams (basicaly the camera register crop format lens and adjust number of recorded pixels accordingly to match format/capabilities of the lens). If so then the whole FF/APS-C debate becomes irrelevant!
So it comes down to basic stuff which in here is:
DA = small size, quick shift
FA = faster max appreture
and then it's all about what you need/want
anyway, you can't go wrong with any of them so "don't think twice, it's all right" as "somebody" famous said...
BR

PS: you'll end up with most of them anyway, it's just matter of which comes first now...

**rparmar** · 02-12-2009, 02:03 PM

Originally posted by eyou

which ones are FA and which ones are DA? Why'd it pick it that way?

My first prime was the FA43 since I wanted something fairly fast and in the normal range. The Limited build and usability blew me away, so eventually I splurged on the FA77. To be honest I have never seen shots from the FA31 that gave me the same thrill. So I passed on that and got the DA35, soon after it was released. The main reason was to have a wider field of view than the FA43 and (much) closer minimum focus. However the extra stop of light means I usually prefer the FA43, and I find the 35mm not wide enough -- it is too "inbetweeny" on digital. Instead I carry a 24mm or 28mm Vivitar f/2.

The 28 / 43 / 77 combination of tiny excellent lenses works well for me. I am not totally satisfied however, and would prefer an FA24 f/2 Limited, if such a thing existed.

eyou · 02-12-2009, 03:15 PM

Quote:

The 28 / 43 / 77 combination of tiny excellent lenses works well for me. I am not totally satisfied however, and would prefer an FA24 f/2 Limited, if such a thing existed.

so why not the 21mm? too slow?

difference between 1.8 and 2.4 for the 77mm and 70mm respectively is a hard choice for me especially cause of the price.

the 21mm da having a 3.2 maximum aperture is somewhat bugging me out. 21mm da is a focal length i think i would use a lot but the aperture? My kit lens goes to 18mm and f3.5 so it doesnt seem like too big of a difference (IQ aside obviously). I probably wont get a 21mm unless i can find a very fairly priced use one.

so now im thinking a 28mm and 77mm/70mm.

brucestrange · 02-12-2009, 03:46 PM

I don't have any FA limiteds, but I have the DA70 and DA21. I also have an FA35 and used to have an FA50. Here's my take: I am not impressed with the build quality of the DA limiteds. I have owned more than one copy of each of those above, and no copy has been satisfactory build-wise. They develop some play in them, and in a couple of cases, so much play that it affected focus accuracy. Photozone says they are of excellent build quality, but own one for a while, and see how it loosens up. I know this will raise some eyebrows, but my FA35 and FA50 had better build quality, despite the plastic materials. They also feel more solid. And they did not get loose. I use the FA35 more than any other lens (probably combined) and it still has no loose parts and feels solid. I'm not even sure that the aluminum the DA limiteds are made of is stronger than the plastic on the FAs. It is very light and actually feels a little vulnerable. All that said, I can only imagine the metal FA limiteds blow the DA limiteds out of the water in build quality. As far as image quality, no lens I've had beats my FA35. The DA21 is not the most accurate autofocuser (all copies I've tried have backfocus issues) but when focus is on, the images are beautiful. The DA70 takes excellent photos.

**rparmar** · 02-12-2009, 03:59 PM

Originally posted by eyou

so why not the 21mm? too slow?

Well, yeah. I can start using the Vivitar f/2 sharp at f/2.8. So if I was going to replace it with something it would have to be faster than that. The 21mm is slower. And though maybe the DA21 is sharper at f/4 than the Vivitar I kind of doubt it.

Also I think 28mm is a better field of view. It approximates normal on APS-C in terms of how prints look. 24mm is already noticeably distorted and 21mm is a different thing again. (I am talking perspective distortion here, not any deficiency of the lens geometry.)

The FA31 is closer to 32mm which is also distinctly different from 28mm. Given the big deal Pentax has made about releasing equivalent field of view lenses to film, and given the exactitude with which they created an FA43 normal for film, I find it surprising there is no fast 28mm lens. Instead we are getting yet another 30-something lens with the DA*30, which makes the fourth one readily available.

Originally posted by eyou

difference between 1.8 and 2.4 for the 77mm and 70mm respectively is a hard choice for me especially cause of the price.

When I bought there wasn't much difference because the DA70 was going for near list and the FA77 was deeply discounted.

joelovotti · 02-12-2009, 06:44 PM

Originally Posted by joelovotti
size vs speed and you pay for speed.
There are plenty of passionate photographers on this site that may jump in with strong opinions on this FA or that DA but it will all come down to subtleties.

So are the DAs smaller in size because they lack the speed (ie. more speed = more mechanical issues = more size) or because they are designed for the APC-S sensor so they can make it shorter?

Speed and full frame coverage both require more glass. More glass, bigger size, more money. Of the two I believe speed has more impact on size and money.

creampuff · 02-12-2009, 09:06 PM

FA Limited = Made in Japan
DA Limited = Assembled in Vietnam

The difference in build quality says it all.

axl · 02-13-2009, 01:37 AM

Originally posted by creampuff

FA Limited = Made in Japan
DA Limited = Assembled in Vietnam

The difference in build quality says it all.

sadly after comparing DA40 built quality and FA31, I have to agree here! FA steals the show

PS edit : and as brucestrange says, it's true that DA loosens up a bit. my 40 has bit of a play in barrel now, but still works like a charm. I just hope it won't get worse. To be honest though, I don't pamper this lens. It's my workhorse and I treat it like such...

roentarre · 02-13-2009, 04:12 AM

Fa 31mm ltd is such a well built lens. Masterpiece construction. So unique looking and classic.

farfisa · 02-13-2009, 06:49 AM

Originally posted by axl

sadly after comparing DA40 built quality and FA31, I have to agree here! FA steals the show

PS edit : and as brucestrange says, it's true that DA loosens up a bit. my 40 has bit of a play in barrel now, but still works like a charm. I just hope it won't get worse. To be honest though, I don't pamper this lens. It's my workhorse and I treat it like such...

The DA 40 is such a good, cheap (ish) lens, that if you're going to pick a work-horse that you're not going to pamper, it's a good pick!

I'd 'sold' my DA 40 and things didn't work out, so I still have it a week later. But now I've changed my attitude towards it. It's my new body cap. I can fit the K20D in my winter coat pocket with the DA 40 on and the snub-nose metal cap and not worry about it. Chances are, it'll make it out a lot more. Might not be so pretty in a few years though!

02-11-2009, 08:42 AM	#18
seacapt Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: North Carolina , USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,271	The difference in cost is simple , the larger an area the image has to be projected on the more it costs to produce the optics. If you *knowthat this is the only camera you will own it makes more sense to go with the less expensive lens . However if you might become more serious about photography (yes film is capable of producing better quality images than any digital available today and there are alot of very nice used Pentax bodies on the market dirt cheap)or if down the road Pentax is forced by market demand to go to a "full frame" sensor in their digital SLRs , the FA will not become the the BetaMax of lenses. If you intend to grow with photography in general and Pentax in particular and the extra $$$$ won't hurt you the FA is a better choice. BUT YOU DO KNOW WHAT THEY SAY ABOUT OPINIONS Oh Yeah and don't worry about that "10 year old technology" , New and Improved usually means cheaper to build and is niether new or improved. Why do you think so many folks are doing flipflops on the sidewalk trying to get their hands on old Super Taks and old Fast 50's? Last edited by seacapt; 02-11-2009 at 09:40 AM.*

02-13-2009, 01:37 AM	#28
axl Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Nove Zamky, Slovakia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,183	Originally posted by creampuff FA Limited = Made in Japan DA Limited = Assembled in Vietnam The difference in build quality says it all. sadly after comparing DA40 built quality and FA31, I have to agree here! FA steals the show PS edit : and as brucestrange says, it's true that DA loosens up a bit. my 40 has bit of a play in barrel now, but still works like a charm. I just hope it won't get worse. To be honest though, I don't pamper this lens. It's my workhorse and I treat it like such... Last edited by axl; 02-13-2009 at 01:42 AM.

02-11-2009, 05:30 AM	#16
rparmar Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2008 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,819	Originally posted by eyou for the 20-30mm theres a 28mm 2.8 for pretty cheap. maybe thats a decent bang for buck combo Find a Vivitar 28mm f/2 and stop it down one. Better quality than a Pentax lens and way cheaper. A great perspective to shoot with. Manual focus not a problem in the wide realm. Much discussion here. (Minor correction: they used to be dead cheap but now go for $120 or so. The cat is out of the bag on this one.)

02-11-2009, 06:05 AM	#17
roentarre Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 11,783	I love my Fa limited Fa 31 ltd fa 43 ltd Fa 77 ltd

02-11-2009, 11:06 AM	#19
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,685	Originally posted by eyou also noticed theres no cheap old prime lenses in the 70-100mm range. By "in the 70-100 range", are you meaning to exclude 100mm? The M100/2.8 is on the edge of the range, obviously, but runs only around $100 or so.

02-12-2009, 11:25 AM	#20
eyou Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 224 Original Poster	The more I research about these lenses, the harder it is to choose Should have just bought all the DAs, ignorance is bliss Originally posted by joelovotti size vs speed and you pay for speed. There are plenty of passionate photographers on this site that may jump in with strong opinions on this FA or that DA but it will all come down to subtleties. So are the DAs smaller in size because they lack the speed (ie. more speed = more mechanical issues = more size) or because they are designed for the APC-S sensor so they can make it shorter? Originally posted by rparmar I've got two FA Limiteds and one DA Limited so that won't help you at all. which ones are FA and which ones are DA? Why'd it pick it that way? Originally posted by roentarre I love my Fa limited those pictures are rediculous. what is taht guy smashing over his head Originally posted by seacapt If you *know*that this is the only camera you will own... already kind of wishing that maybe I had gotten a k20d... theres some features that I'm already missing (AF points, pressing the "green button" to get shutter speed in manual etc) that isnt in the k-m. It's so cheap now too... I know for sure that i will want a better camera, but the question is stay apc-s or FF if it ever comes out. I feel costs aside, if full frame gives better quality images, in the future when the costs will be the same why stay with apc-s? I know I will keep these lenses at least for 5-10 years probably. Originally posted by Marc Sabatella By "in the 70-100 range", are you meaning to exclude 100mm? The M100/2.8 is on the edge of the range, obviously, but runs only around $100 or so. By cheap old primes i mean <$50 When is the next camera convention that Pentax could announce their new lineup? I might have to wait for that to see if anything new and crazy comes out

02-12-2009, 01:03 PM	#21
axl Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Nove Zamky, Slovakia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,183	hard to say which way to go. I have DA40 and FA31. I love 40 to bits, it's a great lens and makes it's way on most of my outings, even if I'm not sure I'm going to take pics. Why?!? the relation between size and performance is astonishing! Many mention FF option, frankly I don't think there is going to be one this or next year. I wish there wouldn't be FF at all and they'd roll 645D out insted, but that's stuff for another thread(s)... anyway, even if Pentax will come out with FF DSLR I'm sure they'd incorporate something like Nikon did with their FF cams (basicaly the camera register crop format lens and adjust number of recorded pixels accordingly to match format/capabilities of the lens). If so then the whole FF/APS-C debate becomes irrelevant! So it comes down to basic stuff which in here is: DA = small size, quick shift FA = faster max appreture and then it's all about what you need/want anyway, you can't go wrong with any of them so "don't think twice, it's all right" as "somebody" famous said... BR PS: you'll end up with most of them anyway, it's just matter of which comes first now...

02-12-2009, 02:03 PM	#22
rparmar Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2008 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,819	Originally posted by eyou which ones are FA and which ones are DA? Why'd it pick it that way? My first prime was the FA43 since I wanted something fairly fast and in the normal range. The Limited build and usability blew me away, so eventually I splurged on the FA77. To be honest I have never seen shots from the FA31 that gave me the same thrill. So I passed on that and got the DA35, soon after it was released. The main reason was to have a wider field of view than the FA43 and (much) closer minimum focus. However the extra stop of light means I usually prefer the FA43, and I find the 35mm not wide enough -- it is too "inbetweeny" on digital. Instead I carry a 24mm or 28mm Vivitar f/2. The 28 / 43 / 77 combination of tiny excellent lenses works well for me. I am not totally satisfied however, and would prefer an FA24 f/2 Limited, if such a thing existed.

02-12-2009, 03:15 PM	#23
eyou Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 224 Original Poster	Quote: The 28 / 43 / 77 combination of tiny excellent lenses works well for me. I am not totally satisfied however, and would prefer an FA24 f/2 Limited, if such a thing existed. so why not the 21mm? too slow? difference between 1.8 and 2.4 for the 77mm and 70mm respectively is a hard choice for me especially cause of the price. the 21mm da having a 3.2 maximum aperture is somewhat bugging me out. 21mm da is a focal length i think i would use a lot but the aperture? My kit lens goes to 18mm and f3.5 so it doesnt seem like too big of a difference (IQ aside obviously). I probably wont get a 21mm unless i can find a very fairly priced use one. so now im thinking a 28mm and 77mm/70mm.

02-12-2009, 03:46 PM	#24
brucestrange Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Utah Posts: 51	I don't have any FA limiteds, but I have the DA70 and DA21. I also have an FA35 and used to have an FA50. Here's my take: I am not impressed with the build quality of the DA limiteds. I have owned more than one copy of each of those above, and no copy has been satisfactory build-wise. They develop some play in them, and in a couple of cases, so much play that it affected focus accuracy. Photozone says they are of excellent build quality, but own one for a while, and see how it loosens up. I know this will raise some eyebrows, but my FA35 and FA50 had better build quality, despite the plastic materials. They also feel more solid. And they did not get loose. I use the FA35 more than any other lens (probably combined) and it still has no loose parts and feels solid. I'm not even sure that the aluminum the DA limiteds are made of is stronger than the plastic on the FAs. It is very light and actually feels a little vulnerable. All that said, I can only imagine the metal FA limiteds blow the DA limiteds out of the water in build quality. As far as image quality, no lens I've had beats my FA35. The DA21 is not the most accurate autofocuser (all copies I've tried have backfocus issues) but when focus is on, the images are beautiful. The DA70 takes excellent photos.

02-12-2009, 03:59 PM	#25
rparmar Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2008 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,819	Originally posted by eyou so why not the 21mm? too slow? Well, yeah. I can start using the Vivitar f/2 sharp at f/2.8. So if I was going to replace it with something it would have to be faster than that. The 21mm is slower. And though maybe the DA21 is sharper at f/4 than the Vivitar I kind of doubt it. Also I think 28mm is a better field of view. It approximates normal on APS-C in terms of how prints look. 24mm is already noticeably distorted and 21mm is a different thing again. (I am talking perspective distortion here, not any deficiency of the lens geometry.) The FA31 is closer to 32mm which is also distinctly different from 28mm. Given the big deal Pentax has made about releasing equivalent field of view lenses to film, and given the exactitude with which they created an FA43 normal for film, I find it surprising there is no fast 28mm lens. Instead we are getting yet another 30-something lens with the DA*30, which makes the fourth one readily available. Originally posted by eyou difference between 1.8 and 2.4 for the 77mm and 70mm respectively is a hard choice for me especially cause of the price. When I bought there wasn't much difference because the DA70 was going for near list and the FA77 was deeply discounted.

02-12-2009, 06:44 PM	#26
joelovotti Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: US Photos: Albums Posts: 393	Originally Posted by joelovotti size vs speed and you pay for speed. There are plenty of passionate photographers on this site that may jump in with strong opinions on this FA or that DA but it will all come down to subtleties. So are the DAs smaller in size because they lack the speed (ie. more speed = more mechanical issues = more size) or because they are designed for the APC-S sensor so they can make it shorter? Speed and full frame coverage both require more glass. More glass, bigger size, more money. Of the two I believe speed has more impact on size and money.

02-12-2009, 09:06 PM	#27
creampuff Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Singapore Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,953	FA Limited = Made in Japan DA Limited = Assembled in Vietnam The difference in build quality says it all.

02-13-2009, 04:12 AM	#29
roentarre Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 11,783	Fa 31mm ltd is such a well built lens. Masterpiece construction. So unique looking and classic.

02-13-2009, 06:49 AM	#30
farfisa Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Toronto, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,274	Originally posted by axl sadly after comparing DA40 built quality and FA31, I have to agree here! FA steals the show PS edit : and as brucestrange says, it's true that DA loosens up a bit. my 40 has bit of a play in barrel now, but still works like a charm. I just hope it won't get worse. To be honest though, I don't pamper this lens. It's my workhorse and I treat it like such... The DA 40 is such a good, cheap (ish) lens, that if you're going to pick a work-horse that you're not going to pamper, it's a good pick! I'd 'sold' my DA 40 and things didn't work out, so I still have it a week later. But now I've changed my attitude towards it. It's my new body cap. I can fit the K20D in my winter coat pocket with the DA 40 on and the snub-nose metal cap and not worry about it. Chances are, it'll make it out a lot more. Might not be so pretty in a few years though!