DA*16-50 vs DA21 Ltd

dugrant153 · 02-17-2009, 11:20 PM

Hey folks,

I currently have the DA*16-50, but am debating as to whether to purchase the DA21 Ltd to compliment my DA40 Ltd and relegate the DA* to special duty (wide angle landscapes, group shots... although the DA21 would probably take over these?)

I really love the DA40 Ltd a lot. The image quality that that lens pumps out is unbelievable. Furthermore, some of my best shots have come from that lens and other primes. Now I need something wider that's just as good, and the DA21 seems to fit the bill. Shots I've taken with the DA*16-50 just don't seem to.. hmm.. cut it? They don't have that 'feel'? (atleast for me...)

Anyways, would like your opinions in helping me to:
(A) Just use the DA*16-50 and forget the DA21 Ltd. Use the DA*16-50 as a main lens all the time.
(B) Buy the DA21 Ltd to complement the DA40/FA50 combo, relegate the DA*16-50 to specialty use.

DA*16-50
+SDM
+Weathersealing
+Zoom range availability (less need to change lenses)
-SDM (seems slower than some primes I own)
-I find myself using mainly 16mm and 50mm, not much inbetween. Zooms confuse my composition?
-F2.8 can be soft.

DA21 Ltd
+Good image quality (From what I tested)
+Nice and compact (great for my travels)
-Not weathersealed
-No SDM
-Have to move around a lot more (maybe a plus)

Any suggestions would be great

If I do get a DA21, I'll probably have to sell a lens or two... hmm...

RaduA · 02-18-2009, 03:54 AM

Originally posted by dugrant153

Hey folks,

I currently have the DA*16-50, but am debating as to whether to purchase the DA21 Ltd to compliment my DA40 Ltd and relegate the DA* to special duty (wide angle landscapes, group shots... although the DA21 would probably take over these?)

I really love the DA40 Ltd a lot. The image quality that that lens pumps out is unbelievable. Furthermore, some of my best shots have come from that lens and other primes. Now I need something wider that's just as good, and the DA21 seems to fit the bill. Shots I've taken with the DA*16-50 just don't seem to.. hmm.. cut it? They don't have that 'feel'? (atleast for me...)

Anyways, would like your opinions in helping me to:
(A) Just use the DA*16-50 and forget the DA21 Ltd. Use the DA*16-50 as a main lens all the time.
(B) Buy the DA21 Ltd to complement the DA40/FA50 combo, relegate the DA*16-50 to specialty use.

DA*16-50
+SDM
+Weathersealing
+Zoom range availability (less need to change lenses)
-SDM (seems slower than some primes I own)
-I find myself using mainly 16mm and 50mm, not much inbetween. Zooms confuse my composition?
-F2.8 can be soft.

DA21 Ltd
+Good image quality (From what I tested)
+Nice and compact (great for my travels)
-Not weathersealed
-No SDM
-Have to move around a lot more (maybe a plus)

Any suggestions would be great

If I do get a DA21, I'll probably have to sell a lens or two... hmm...

Hi, Dugrant!

If you have only the K100D from your sig I'd suggest to pass on the DA21 based on the foreseeable "mostly landscape" usage. IMHO the only camera that puts in value this little lens characteristics is the K20D atm (you can search for Ben(jikan)'s opinion about DA21 on K10 and latter on K20.

Strictly about the lens I can tell you that IMO it has a bit different colors than the zoom and here I concur with Duplo that is the best landscape renderer in K mount from the modern lenses.

So if I were you (I repeat if the only camera you have is the K100D) I would put my money into a new K20D instead (I also had the K100D and I am pretty aware about the differences between those two).

Radu

dugrant153 · 02-18-2009, 11:05 AM

I will be using it on the K200D most likely

DA21 would be good for street photography and groups shots also, yes?

nostatic · 02-18-2009, 11:15 AM

Originally posted by dugrant153

I will be using it on the K200D most likely

DA21 would be good for street photography and groups shots also, yes?

Depends. If you see that FOV for street, then it is good. If you don't, then it isn't. I often find 31 or 43 to be a great street lens, but I tend to want to be a bit more intimate. 21 for me is a little inbetween - I'd rather have wider or more tele. But that is just my experience. Put your 16-50* at 21 and shoot and see if you like it.

RaduA · 02-18-2009, 12:37 PM

Originally posted by dugrant153

I will be using it on the K200D most likely

DA21 would be good for street photography and groups shots also, yes?

For me that would be too wide but YMMV ...

Radu

calicojack · 02-18-2009, 02:00 PM

Originally posted by dugrant153

DA21 would be good for street photography and groups shots also, yes?

It really depends on how you like your street to look. I started out with a Sigma 17-70 (couldn't afford the 16-50 at the time and I'm still confused if it's any good without picking through a bunch of them). The 17-70 was familiar territory from my film days and my Vivitar Series 1 28-105. It was fine until I took some interior family shots at 17mm and the distortion hit home. I bought the 21mm Ltd. to avoid going too low in my focal length and because it is just so darn cute. As opposed to some other's opinions, I love the very original lens hood that my UV filter screws into on the inside. The 21 is just wide enough and controlled enough to meet what I bought it for. I generally like the adaptability of zoom lenses for street shooting since my style is not confined (actually all over the place sometimes). I have used the 21 for street shots but only when I want environmental street shots. If I'm going to be picking out details, I want a longer lens (zoom). I have also used my 21 for group portraits. It's great for that since you don't need to be too far away.
Will it be your main lens? It could be, but not for me (my camera has had theb 50-135 on it for three weeks without changing). The 21 certainly has a place of honor in my bag, and it will always.

legacyb4 · 02-28-2009, 10:34 PM

Now that you have it, how do you find the maximum aperture of F3.2 in low light situations? Didn't get enough time to test out handheld, indoor shooting last week so will be interested to find out how it works out.

dugrant153 · 03-01-2009, 12:52 AM

Originally posted by legacyb4

Now that you have it, how do you find the maximum aperture of F3.2 in low light situations? Didn't get enough time to test out handheld, indoor shooting last week so will be interested to find out how it works out.

Funny you should ask! I just took the DA21 into a crazy dark concert situation.
In a lot of the shots, I found F2.0 and F2.4 a bit to shallow a DOF to get the shot right. I needed F2.8 and higher to get some nice shots.

In this situation, the F3.2 worked well for it's purpose. It's a sharp lens and does it's job very well. If I needed to, I'd boost the ISO a little bit higher to get that little extra shutter speed, but overall it held it's own until the extreme darkest situations.

The difference between F2.8 and F3.2 was not really noticeable at all. And for some reason, I get way sharper pics with the DA Limiteds, even at slow shutter speeds. Could be because of their smaller size.

er1kksen · 03-01-2009, 10:37 AM

There's really only about half a stop's difference from f2.8 to f3.2. That would only translate of a difference in shutter speed of perhaps 1/90 of a second instead of 1/60.

benjikan · 03-01-2009, 11:15 AM

Keep the 16-50. It is so much more versatile. Yes, the 21 Ltd is really nice on the k20D, but being able to shoot all the way down to 16mm and at f2.8 is a real plus.

If you were asking about the Pentax 12-24, that would be a more interesting discussion. That is a real gem, even wide open.

Ben

02-17-2009, 11:20 PM	#1
dugrant153 Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Vancouver, BC Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,059	*DA16-50 vs DA21 Ltd** Hey folks, I currently have the DA16-50, but am debating as to whether to purchase the DA21 Ltd to compliment my DA40 Ltd and relegate the DA to special duty (wide angle landscapes, group shots... although the DA21 would probably take over these?) I really love the DA40 Ltd a lot. The image quality that that lens pumps out is unbelievable. Furthermore, some of my best shots have come from that lens and other primes. Now I need something wider that's just as good, and the DA21 seems to fit the bill. Shots I've taken with the DA16-50 just don't seem to.. hmm.. cut it? They don't have that 'feel'? (atleast for me...) Anyways, would like your opinions in helping me to: (A) Just use the DA16-50 and forget the DA21 Ltd. Use the DA16-50 as a main lens all the time. (B) Buy the DA21 Ltd to complement the DA40/FA50 combo, relegate the DA16-50 to specialty use. DA*16-50 +SDM +Weathersealing +Zoom range availability (less need to change lenses) -SDM (seems slower than some primes I own) -I find myself using mainly 16mm and 50mm, not much inbetween. Zooms confuse my composition? -F2.8 can be soft. DA21 Ltd +Good image quality (From what I tested) +Nice and compact (great for my travels) -Not weathersealed -No SDM -Have to move around a lot more (maybe a plus) Any suggestions would be great If I do get a DA21, I'll probably have to sell a lens or two... hmm...

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02-18-2009, 03:54 AM	#2
RaduA Guest	Originally posted by dugrant153 Hey folks, I currently have the DA16-50, but am debating as to whether to purchase the DA21 Ltd to compliment my DA40 Ltd and relegate the DA to special duty (wide angle landscapes, group shots... although the DA21 would probably take over these?) I really love the DA40 Ltd a lot. The image quality that that lens pumps out is unbelievable. Furthermore, some of my best shots have come from that lens and other primes. Now I need something wider that's just as good, and the DA21 seems to fit the bill. Shots I've taken with the DA16-50 just don't seem to.. hmm.. cut it? They don't have that 'feel'? (atleast for me...) Anyways, would like your opinions in helping me to: (A) Just use the DA16-50 and forget the DA21 Ltd. Use the DA16-50 as a main lens all the time. (B) Buy the DA21 Ltd to complement the DA40/FA50 combo, relegate the DA16-50 to specialty use. DA*16-50 +SDM +Weathersealing +Zoom range availability (less need to change lenses) -SDM (seems slower than some primes I own) -I find myself using mainly 16mm and 50mm, not much inbetween. Zooms confuse my composition? -F2.8 can be soft. DA21 Ltd +Good image quality (From what I tested) +Nice and compact (great for my travels) -Not weathersealed -No SDM -Have to move around a lot more (maybe a plus) Any suggestions would be great If I do get a DA21, I'll probably have to sell a lens or two... hmm... Hi, Dugrant! If you have only the K100D from your sig I'd suggest to pass on the DA21 based on the foreseeable "mostly landscape" usage. IMHO the only camera that puts in value this little lens characteristics is the K20D atm (you can search for Ben(jikan)'s opinion about DA21 on K10 and latter on K20. Strictly about the lens I can tell you that IMO it has a bit different colors than the zoom and here I concur with Duplo that is the best landscape renderer in K mount from the modern lenses. So if I were you (I repeat if the only camera you have is the K100D) I would put my money into a new K20D instead (I also had the K100D and I am pretty aware about the differences between those two). Radu

02-18-2009, 11:05 AM	#3
dugrant153 Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Vancouver, BC Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,059 Original Poster	I will be using it on the K200D most likely DA21 would be good for street photography and groups shots also, yes?

02-18-2009, 11:15 AM	#4
nostatic Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: socal Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,575	Originally posted by dugrant153 I will be using it on the K200D most likely DA21 would be good for street photography and groups shots also, yes? Depends. If you see that FOV for street, then it is good. If you don't, then it isn't. I often find 31 or 43 to be a great street lens, but I tend to want to be a bit more intimate. 21 for me is a little inbetween - I'd rather have wider or more tele. But that is just my experience. Put your 16-50* at 21 and shoot and see if you like it.

02-18-2009, 12:37 PM	#5
RaduA Guest	Originally posted by dugrant153 I will be using it on the K200D most likely DA21 would be good for street photography and groups shots also, yes? For me that would be too wide but YMMV ... Radu

02-18-2009, 02:00 PM	#6
calicojack Inactive Account Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Long Island, N.Y. Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,124	Originally posted by dugrant153 DA21 would be good for street photography and groups shots also, yes? It really depends on how you like your street to look. I started out with a Sigma 17-70 (couldn't afford the 16-50 at the time and I'm still confused if it's any good without picking through a bunch of them). The 17-70 was familiar territory from my film days and my Vivitar Series 1 28-105. It was fine until I took some interior family shots at 17mm and the distortion hit home. I bought the 21mm Ltd. to avoid going too low in my focal length and because it is just so darn cute. As opposed to some other's opinions, I love the very original lens hood that my UV filter screws into on the inside. The 21 is just wide enough and controlled enough to meet what I bought it for. I generally like the adaptability of zoom lenses for street shooting since my style is not confined (actually all over the place sometimes). I have used the 21 for street shots but only when I want environmental street shots. If I'm going to be picking out details, I want a longer lens (zoom). I have also used my 21 for group portraits. It's great for that since you don't need to be too far away. Will it be your main lens? It could be, but not for me (my camera has had theb 50-135 on it for three weeks without changing). The 21 certainly has a place of honor in my bag, and it will always.

02-28-2009, 10:34 PM	#7
legacyb4 Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Tri-Cities, British Columbia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,784	Now that you have it, how do you find the maximum aperture of F3.2 in low light situations? Didn't get enough time to test out handheld, indoor shooting last week so will be interested to find out how it works out.

03-01-2009, 12:52 AM	#8
dugrant153 Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Vancouver, BC Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,059 Original Poster	Originally posted by legacyb4 Now that you have it, how do you find the maximum aperture of F3.2 in low light situations? Didn't get enough time to test out handheld, indoor shooting last week so will be interested to find out how it works out. Funny you should ask! I just took the DA21 into a crazy dark concert situation. In a lot of the shots, I found F2.0 and F2.4 a bit to shallow a DOF to get the shot right. I needed F2.8 and higher to get some nice shots. In this situation, the F3.2 worked well for it's purpose. It's a sharp lens and does it's job very well. If I needed to, I'd boost the ISO a little bit higher to get that little extra shutter speed, but overall it held it's own until the extreme darkest situations. The difference between F2.8 and F3.2 was not really noticeable at all. And for some reason, I get way sharper pics with the DA Limiteds, even at slow shutter speeds. Could be because of their smaller size.

03-01-2009, 10:37 AM	#9
er1kksen Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Forestville, NY Photos: Albums Posts: 1,801	There's really only about half a stop's difference from f2.8 to f3.2. That would only translate of a difference in shutter speed of perhaps 1/90 of a second instead of 1/60.

03-01-2009, 11:15 AM	#10
benjikan Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Paris, France Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,308	Keep the 16-50. It is so much more versatile. Yes, the 21 Ltd is really nice on the k20D, but being able to shoot all the way down to 16mm and at f2.8 is a real plus. If you were asking about the Pentax 12-24, that would be a more interesting discussion. That is a real gem, even wide open. Ben