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02-20-2009, 09:26 AM   #16
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Correcting for parallax, and barrel distortion and shift-type movements may be fairly easy with software, but tilting--actually changing the plane of focus--is pretty tough to do in pp. For my work flow, out of focus foreground or background is beyond software. Thus the importance of tilt.

For example, with tilt movements you can get a close foreground--say 2 feet--in focus as well as infinity in focus without stopping down! So you can get a shutter speed that may stop wind movement in foreground plants while getting more apparent depth of field than if you stopped down to f/22. Plus, really deep depth of focus without risking diffraction problems from small f stops means you get the sharpness of the lens' sweet spot while still getting that "everything in focus" look that is so important in much landscape, close-up and studio/product photo work. For close-up and studio type work where razor thin dof is a problem, tilting extends it at the plane of focus rather than by stopping down. Combine stopping down and modifying the plane with tilt movement and you get visual depth of field not possible with fixed lenses or with post processing.

Therein lies the glory of tilting...it's something you just can't accomplish any other way.

02-20-2009, 10:04 AM   #17
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Actually Arax, and not Zenit, it seems

QuoteOriginally posted by Ron Boggs Quote
Is it called Arax or Zenit? Anybody used such a lens and have comments?

Thanks for the link from Norway!
There definitely are two Zenit tilt/shift lenses in PK mount available in 35mm and 80mm. They are full manual with no "A" setting, but they exist. I haven't been curious enough about them to spend the near $500 for the 80mm or the around $700 for the 35mm, so I can't say much about how well they work.

Edit: I guess these actually are Arax label lenses, though that is hard to discern from the Zenit Camera site where I first saw them.

Last edited by CFWhitman; 02-20-2009 at 11:57 AM.
02-20-2009, 11:09 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ron Boggs Quote
Correcting for parallax, and barrel distortion and shift-type movements may be fairly easy with software, but tilting--actually changing the plane of focus--is pretty tough to do in pp. For my work flow, out of focus foreground or background is beyond software. Thus the importance of tilt.

For example, with tilt movements you can get a close foreground--say 2 feet--in focus as well as infinity in focus without stopping down! So you can get a shutter speed that may stop wind movement in foreground plants while getting more apparent depth of field than if you stopped down to f/22. Plus, really deep depth of focus without risking diffraction problems from small f stops means you get the sharpness of the lens' sweet spot while still getting that "everything in focus" look that is so important in much landscape, close-up and studio/product photo work. For close-up and studio type work where razor thin dof is a problem, tilting extends it at the plane of focus rather than by stopping down. Combine stopping down and modifying the plane with tilt movement and you get visual depth of field not possible with fixed lenses or with post processing.

Therein lies the glory of tilting...it's something you just can't accomplish any other way.
QuoteOriginally posted by Ron Boggs Quote
Not to argue with K100d, but I rather like using the viewfinder to work with the tilt function. Of course, I'm looking through a big, bright 67II viewfinder which is decidedly easier to work with than the digi finders. But when I use the LCD on a digi, my eyes see the LCD, and the camera back and also around the camera. Looking through a viewfinder, all I see is the image. It's almost like crawling under the "dark tent" for large format. With my eye to the viewfinder, it's the only thing in my mind--the rest of the world melts away...

K100d's point is well taken...how you analyze your image before tripping the shutter is really important with tilt movements--foreground and background in focus but midground out of focus...left and center in focus but right side falling off (360 degree rotation of Zork tilt tube means you can miss focus in strange places--or is that "selective defocus"?) My first few rolls of "tilted" images exposed lots of "learning curve" regarding careful tilting, composition and framing to avoid lensbaby effects where I really didn't want them. I've sort-of settled on careful tilting first then stopping down (when possible) to extend the effect and, of course, lots of checking depth of field while stopping down. The old adage to "check all corners" is even more important with tilt movements than it is with standard photography.
very comprehensive! enjoyed reading that. i would looove to have a Live View SLR + Tilt-Shift lens but again the costs are prohibitive.
02-20-2009, 11:10 AM   #19
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Thanks CF, I'll rummage around a bit and see what I can learn.

02-20-2009, 01:36 PM   #20
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Hi Ron

Visiting Rob Galbraith's website recently, I found the info surrounding the latest 17mm &24mm TS lenses from Canon particularly interesting when he stated that:

QuoteQuote:
Each lens incorporates a new type of anti-reflection coating, Canon's SubWavelength structure Coating (SWC) that continuously changes the refractive index on the lens surface via wedge-shaped structures more minute than wavelength of visible light. Canon's SWC helps minimize flare and ghosting caused by bright light from large angles of incidence.
I vividly recall a fascinating conversation I held some years ago with a senior member of staff at Canon's HQ, just after their full-frame 5D first became available. I enquired about the suitability of using their 24mm TSE lens in conjunction with the 5D body, but discovered to my lasting disappointment that due to the different manner in which light strikes the surface of film emulsion as opposed to that of a CCD sensor, I was quite likely to encounter significant ghosting/colour shift problems. Such issues are exacerbated the further a lens is physically moved from it's centre either vertically (up or down) or horizontally (left or right) etc.
To the best of my recollection, the 5D/24mm TSE pairing was then the cheapest (sic) route (approx 2,500.00) into the world of digital full-frame 35mm architectural photography, but given the less than perfect results obtainable at the time, I decided to postpone my purchase until these significant deficiencies could be addressed to my complete satisfaction. However, in light of these new SubWavelength structure Coatings, it may well be time to revisit this matter afresh ?

Best regards
Richard

P.S. OTOH this article:

http://www.afashionshooter.com/2009/02/08/canon-5d2-so-long/

......might make one think twice before investing in the latest 5D Mk11 ?

Last edited by Confused; 02-20-2009 at 09:44 PM.
02-20-2009, 01:39 PM   #21
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D700 + 24mm PC-E or 5DII + 24mm TSE ? ... tough choice
03-04-2009, 10:01 AM   #22
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check out picture of that 17 TS fromt element!

At drpeview there is a pic of the new Canon TS 17. What a front element! Not for the faint of heart. So beautiful.
thanks
barondla (lust in my heart).

Check out POINT & SHOOT CONTEST #16 WINNERS in P&S forum. Enter #17. Any brand camera. Any subject. Enter now!
03-04-2009, 10:05 AM   #23
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i wish more tilt shift lenses existed.

the more street photography (and general photography) that i do, the more i wish i had perspective correction (or an ability to fly 10 feet into the air to take a photo)

03-05-2009, 01:05 PM   #24
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a 17mm tilt & shift lens would be perfect for APS-C. Could replace the old 28 mm, (Edit : I just saw that the original was only a shift lens).

A friend of mine using the Eos 5D, says that Medium Format is superior, and 67 better still. Software can't duplicate.


QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
the more street photography (and general photography) that i do, the more i wish i had perspective correction (or an ability to fly 10 feet into the air to take a photo)
I know the feeling.
Don't know enough about Tilt and Shift lenses though, and do little PP, so the effects would be lost on me.

Last edited by Jonson PL; 03-05-2009 at 02:13 PM.
03-06-2009, 10:44 PM   #25
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My experience in this area is almost nil besides playing around with and eventually sticking a used Nikon AIS 28mm PC onto my K200D (managed about a 2minute turn). It was old and the shift screw was loose.

I promptly put it back when the employee quoted the price at $800.


Here's a shot of my Kiron 28/2 using a T/S-ed Zenitar Fisheye @ f4. (I unmounted the lens and held it in an oblique angle off the camera body lol.)
03-06-2009, 11:51 PM   #26
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Pentax made a zoom fisheye, no other lens maker has attempted this..why not a 16-35mm f/4.5 zoom tilt/shift lens?...and one designed for full frame...but with a switch that enables the lens when mounted on a DSLR to make use of the larger image circle and add a few extra mm of tilt and shift - it would have to feature limited lens construction quality too.

- THAT would be a killer lens design.however the probability that such a thing will ever be made is unlikely,though it doesn't hurt anyone to dream.
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