[Canada_Rockies]

can I use the LL-60 or LL-80 on the 200?

Any of the DSLR screens will mount on any other DSLR.

[res3567]

BTW - I only have one dust speck in my viewfinder now. I was luckier switching screens this time.

I thought it was just me.

You have the same problem too?

What causes that?

[Canada_Rockies]

I thought it was just me.

You have the same problem too?

What causes that?

I put it down to my unofficial middle initial - K for Klutz.

[F16]

Yeah, that and the silly P-TTL.

If they kept TTL, flash metering would be correct (at least in theory) no matter what I attached to the camera body, even a pin hole body cap.

Now getting consistent correct flash exposure with the built-in flash and an M-lens has become next to impossible.

Yeah, I've read a little about the flash issues with non-A lenses. To try to keep a long story short, I've never owned a DSLR but just did buy a used K100D Super in the marketplace. I've been splitting my use between 35mm Canon EOS and Pentax K & M42 mostly until now. Up until a few months ago when I did closer research on Pentax 'backward compatibilities', I was confident in the fact that I'd eventually go with Pentax for my first DSLR so I could use my older lenses. The thought of such idiotic things as Pentax crippling the lensmount for non-A lenses and no TTL flash metering never even crossed my mind, and when I found this out it made the decision to go with Pentax much harder. Add to this the fact that Pentax is the least innovative and furthest behind the curve of all the major brands in camera tech, and my decision to go with Pentax was a tough one but I made that choice simply because I have a lot of older lenses, crippled in functionality unfortunately. Sorry to wander off subject, I just feel that Pentax is making poor decisions with things like crippled mounts and no TTL flash metering with older lenses.

[Canada_Rockies]

... <snip> ... Sorry to wander off subject, I just feel that Pentax is making poor decisions with things like crippled mounts and no TTL flash metering with older lenses.

How can a Canon user even think of complaining about poor obsolete lenses compatibility? Canon went from breech lock to bayonet, and none of the breech lock lenses could be mounted. Canon went to full electronic mounts, and none of the old lenses can be used.

Yes, my old M lenses lost automatic exposure control, but they focus to infinity with no adapters. If I still owned some screw mount lenses, they could be used with a $30 adapter. When I made the shift from screw mount to bayonet, I bought an adapter and changed lenses out as money became available.

When I changed from my all manual KX to the SF-1 the lenses worked with no difference except that I now had focus indication and aperture priority availalbe.

When I bought the MZ-S, the M lenses still worked in aperture priority with focus indication, but the A lenses had all exposure modes.

On my K10D, I lost open aperture metering and auto exposure with my M lenses except when wide open.

I am getting sick and tired of all the bitching in these forums because Pentax had the audacity to "cripple" their lens mount. For goodness sake, using two adapters chained I can still mount a 39mm lens from an Asahiflex on my K10D and have metering and focus indication.

[Marc Sabatella]

Add to this the fact that Pentax is the least innovative and furthest behind the curve of all the major brands in camera tech

Yeah, when are they going to add in-body stabilization or weather sealing like Canon & Nikon? And I sure envy that Green button Canon & Nikon provide to quickly meter in M mode, as well as hyperprogram mode, Sv mode, and TAv mode. If Pentax doesn't incorporate these features into their bodies soon, I may have to switch systems. Probably to Canon, because I have lots of old Canon lenses that I'd *love* to not to be able to use.

[mikeSF]

Yeah, when are they going to add in-body stabilization or weather sealing like Canon & Nikon? And I sure envy that Green button Canon & Nikon provide to quickly meter in M mode, as well as hyperprogram mode, Sv mode, and TAv mode. If Pentax doesn't incorporate these features into their bodies soon, I may have to switch systems. Probably to Canon, because I have lots of old Canon lenses that I'd *love* to not to be able to use.

[F16]

Yeah, when are they going to add in-body stabilization or weather sealing like Canon & Nikon? And I sure envy that Green button Canon & Nikon provide to quickly meter in M mode, as well as hyperprogram mode, Sv mode, and TAv mode. If Pentax doesn't incorporate these features into their bodies soon, I may have to switch systems. Probably to Canon, because I have lots of old Canon lenses that I'd *love* to not to be able to use.

Canon basically invented IS. They're bending over the consumer by putting it only in lenses, but not putting it in their body in addition to lenses has nothing to do with being innovative or not, it's one of the biggest reasons I went with Pentax but they were among the last to implement IS. Weather Sealing, everyone's been there and done that at one time or another, not innovative. A 'green button', thrilling, but I hardly consider that innovative technology. Canon not supporting FD lenses was based on updating the mount to be less limiting, it is unfortunate and no doubt a difficult decision but they felt it was the proper decision.

You can defend Pentax, but trying to argue how innovative they are compared to the competition is not going to hold up very well. Look at major innovations in SLRs over the last 20 years or so and Pentax is lagging behind. It's not like I hate Pentax, I still made the choice to go with Pentax, but when of your biggest draws is 'backwards compatibility' and then you cripple those abilities, you are biting the hand that feeds you, consumers like a large number of those on this board that want to use older lenses in addition to new ones.

I don't want to overtake someone's thread on brand arguments, if this wants to be discussed more I hope we can agree to go to another thread with it. My initial post wasn't intended to turn the thread away from the metering issues.

[F16]

I am getting sick and tired of all the bitching in these forums because Pentax had the audacity to "cripple" their lens mount. For goodness sake, using two adapters chained I can still mount a 39mm lens from an Asahiflex on my K10D and have metering and focus indication.

Don't expect the bitching from Pentax users to just stop, it's idiotic for them to cripple the mount and just accepting it certainly won't help the chances that Pentax might change their mind and uncripple the mount at some point.

[Timarete]

Oops. So now I find this thread after starting one of my own.

I'll be very interesting to know whether or not the LL-60 throws off metering of DA lenses, so if anyone has done that test, please report back!

Right now I'm just relieved to hear that my new K20D is exhibiting "normal" behavior with M lenses (i.e. it's consistently overexposing with them).

[Canada_Rockies]

Oops. So now I find this thread after starting one of my own.

I'll be very interesting to know whether or not the LL-60 throws off metering of DA lenses, so if anyone has done that test, please report back!

Right now I'm just relieved to hear that my new K20D is exhibiting "normal" behavior with M lenses (i.e. it's consistently overexposing with them).

I'll find that out this weekend. I need to run a full set of exposure tests with both M lenses and every other lens I own except the two FA zooms, that I only use on the film cameras. That's six lenses. Should keep me out of mischief for a while.

[Timarete]

I'll find that out this weekend. I need to run a full set of exposure tests with both M lenses and every other lens I own except the two FA zooms, that I only use on the film cameras. That's six lenses. Should keep me out of mischief for a while.

This undertaking will be a great service to us all!

[Canada_Rockies]

This undertaking will be a great service to us all!

It will be an even greater undertaking for myself. I've got these six lenses that I use quite a bit (well, the 70-210 not so much, but I do use it sometimes). If the LL-60 makes all my A capable lenses overexpose 2/3 of a stop, you know what I'll do, don't you? I'll set my exposure compensatoin to -2/3 whenever I have an A series lens on the camera. As long as the metering is consistent across the aperture range, I'll be a happy camper. The problem with my M lenses is that the exposure is under here, over there, and for f/8, it's correct. That falls into the awkward realm for me.

[Marc Sabatella]

Canon basically invented IS. They're bending over the consumer by putting it only in lenses, but not putting it in their body in addition to lenses has nothing to do with being innovative or not, it's one of the biggest reasons I went with Pentax but they were among the last to implement IS. Weather Sealing, everyone's been there and done that at one time or another, not innovative. A 'green button', thrilling, but I hardly consider that innovative technology.

OK. then what *does* count as innovation in your book? And are any of things that Canon or Nikon has allegedly innovated in the last decade actually *better* uses of their engineering resources - or our spending dollars - than the "non-innovative" things Pentax has incorporated into their cameras?

Put another way, what's so great about innovation if it doesn't lead to a better camera?

[cupic]

My LL-60 arrived from Japan in the mail today. I just put it into my K10D and put on the M 400/5.6. My shutter speeds got twice as long every time I changed to a smaller stop. All the way from f/5.6 to f/45. Yaaahooooo!!!!

Thank you everyone who suggested this. It works! Yay!

Did I mention I'm happy?

Is that a original one or a copy and roughly whats one worth?


cheers