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03-08-2009, 05:32 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
in my family collection we did have a 800mm f/8 solid cat lens for pentax 645, I HATED it.
Oh well...different strokes for different folks, I guess.



03-08-2009, 05:36 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by ajuett Quote
Pentax can make one if they like, 500mm f/5.6 and I'd get one. MF is fine as long as it has metering.

I'm keeping an eye out for a used 300 to 500mm f/5.6 locally. It's a cheaper alternative to getting a tele-zoom as they range from $100 and up depending on condition and f/stop speed. The majority are MF so be aware of that.
theres a t mount celestron 300mm f5.6 here

Celestron 300mm f5.6 300/5.6 Mirror Lens Telephoto - eBay (item 260370897038 end time Mar-09-09 19:05:40 PDT)
03-08-2009, 11:07 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
Here are some test shots, just of stuff around my place using the Tamron SP 500mm 55BB Lens.
Thanks for the samples!

Nice sharpness but I can see how it can bother some people when the out of focus area looks more like blur caused by camera shake (in #2).

I just last week bought an old Makinon 8/500mm from ebay and it should arrive any day now. I couldn't find much info on it but the price was so low that I quess I can get rid of it without too much hassle if I don't like it.
03-09-2009, 05:18 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by ovim Quote
Thanks for the samples!

Nice sharpness but I can see how it can bother some people when the out of focus area looks more like blur caused by camera shake (in #2).

I just last week bought an old Makinon 8/500mm from ebay and it should arrive any day now. I couldn't find much info on it but the price was so low that I quess I can get rid of it without too much hassle if I don't like it.
You will not see this so blatantly when shooting out door scenics for example at infinity or at 30 meters or so.

03-09-2009, 05:55 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
You will not see this so blatantly when shooting out door scenics for example at infinity or at 30 meters or so.
hands up,who uses a 500mm lens for landscape work? Mirror lenses have fixed apertures, usually f/8, and in some cases f/11 to f/5.6, so you can kiss depth of field control goodbye. And they aren't all that sharp at all...the only thing going for them is their immunity to chromatic aberration. And their size and weight in comparison to regular super telephoto lens designs. Canon brought out Diffractive Optics in their lenses, and I'm impressed with the weight reduction, however these lenses have a different type of bokeh, it looks like low frequency ripples in water and like mirror lenses it's acquired taste.

that's it.

this is a diffraction lens, take a look and you will know what I'm talking about in regard to their bokeh.

Last edited by Digitalis; 05-08-2009 at 12:32 AM.
03-09-2009, 07:16 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by fwcetus Quote
Metering is fine with all (non-variable aperture, of course) mirror lenses, since they are shooting wide open all the time - they don't even need an "A" setting - <g>.
My K200D doesn't meter well with my 500mm f/6.3 mirror. In program mode, even if set to EV +2, it'll underexpose most of the time, sometimes expose right, and sometimes overexpose.

The only reliable metering is in manual, using the green button. Works well. I can't figure out why it works and program doesn't.
03-09-2009, 07:51 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
hands up,who uses a 500mm lens for landscape work? Mirror lenses have fixed apertures, usually f/8, and in some cases f/11 to f/5.6, so you can kiss depth of field control goodbye. And they aren't all that sharp at all...the only thing going for them is their immunity to chromatic aberration. And their size and weight in comparison to regular super telephoto lens designs. Canon brought out Diffractive Optics in their lenses, and I'm impressed with the weight reduction, however these lenses have a different type of bokeh, it looks like low frequency ripples in water and like mirror lenses it's acquired taste.
I'm pretty sure benjikan meant outdoor usage in natural light, not necessarily landscape work. DOF control is not always needed either. The lack of DOF control in P&S cameras, for example is sometimes envied by us dSLR bunch. Immunity to chromatic aberration would be great on every lens. I wonder what a 50mm f/1.4 mirror lens would look like and accomplish?
03-09-2009, 08:08 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by kristoffon Quote
My K200D doesn't meter well with my 500mm f/6.3 mirror. In program mode, even if set to EV +2, it'll underexpose most of the time, sometimes expose right, and sometimes overexpose. The only reliable metering is in manual, using the green button. Works well. I can't figure out why it works and program doesn't.
You might try aperture-priority mode...

I would not be surprised if you had to dial in some exposure comp, but I would think it would be fairly consistent (except for back-lighting effects, etc.).

The photo below, of a white morph reddish egret, for example, was taken with a Vivitar Series 1 600/8 "Solid Cat" and an *ist DS. I used aperture priority with a bit of positive exposure comp (due to the backlighting). It does show some of the usual funny bokeh from using a mirror (mostly in the background near the top), and I did have to boost the contrast a bit (not unusual with mirrors). However, I did take quite a few photos of this critter dancing around while feeding, and the exposures were all relatively consistent.



03-09-2009, 08:43 AM   #24
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looks at the bokeh of the pic posted above *shudders* it's like they made a telephoto version of the M42 Pentax 55mm f/2 * I think I need to wash my eyes*
03-09-2009, 09:15 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by kristoffon Quote
My K200D doesn't meter well with my 500mm f/6.3 mirror. In program mode, even if set to EV +2, it'll underexpose most of the time, sometimes expose right, and sometimes overexpose.

The only reliable metering is in manual, using the green button. Works well. I can't figure out why it works and program doesn't.
As fwcetus pointed out, you should try aperture priority mode. Program mode will not work correctly for any lens lacking an "A" setting. It's not designed to do so. It is designed to work with the expectation that it will be able change the aperture as part of the program, so when it can't, it doesn't "know" what to do and returns inconsistent results. In fact, when using a lens on which the aperture can not be changed, there is no reason to use any mode but aperture priority.
03-09-2009, 10:18 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by CFWhitman Quote
Program mode will not work correctly for any lens lacking an "A" setting. It's not designed to do so. It is designed to work with the expectation that it will be able change the aperture as part of the program, so when it can't, it doesn't "know" what to do and returns inconsistent results.
I would go a atep further, and even say that, in program mode, the body is "trying" to change the aperture most of the time (except when the light is dim and it "thinks" that wide open would be best), and it is ~not~ exactly that it doesn't "know" what to do, but that it "assumes" that it ~is~ changing the aperture, and therefore is (mis)calculating the exposure (setting the shutter speed, which it ~can~ do) on the basis of that "assumption".

QuoteOriginally posted by CFWhitman Quote
In fact, when using a lens on which the aperture can not be changed, there is no reason to use any mode but aperture priority.
I think that's the ~best~ advice for using any fixed aperture lenses, such as cats...
03-09-2009, 10:34 AM   #27
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I have a Sigma mirror 600mm f8 and have to admit it's NOT an easy lens to work with! The DOF is paper thin and focussing is not easy.

But when I manage to take a good shot, it comes out really nicely.

Pat
03-09-2009, 11:09 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
I will use flash as usual and hope that my Multi Blitz infra red sensor on my hotshoe of the camera will work with the extended distance from my flash heads. Should be interesting.

Ben
If you are shooting outside Ben then do not be a cheap ass.. get some radio triggers if its bright and sunny.
Indoors the infra triggers will work just as well.
But you know this already.
What kind of distance are you talking about
03-09-2009, 01:05 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Steelski Quote
If you are shooting outside Ben then do not be a cheap ass.. get some radio triggers if its bright and sunny.
Indoors the infra triggers will work just as well.
But you know this already.
What kind of distance are you talking about
Not sure yet..I may also do the shoot in an abandoned warehouse...I love playing with the "CoC" effect. Was really big with photographers Arthur Elgort and Bruce Weber. If in the warehouse, I doubt if there will be a problem, as the range is about 50 meters. If I shoot outdoors, which I doubt, I will use flash and will test before going ahead as usual.

Ben :-)
03-09-2009, 07:22 PM   #30
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I think it would be a very wise move by Pentax to bring out a 600mm f/8 AF MIRROR lens for around $600 street price. Having AF, this lens would not be difficult to shoot with, and given it would be light, a simple monopod would suffice. They would sell a ton of them.

Because all this makes sense, I know it won't happen.

PENTAX
EXPECT THE UNEXPECTED

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