LBA: Da 21mm f3.2 ltd

Marc Sabatella · 03-09-2009, 02:15 PM

Originally posted by k100d

i've said this before, technically, there really isn't anything spectacular about this lens, although some people like the way it renders. it has barrel distortion, not very fast, rather average sharpness out in the corners. but when you need a small wide, there's really no alternative.

Well, there's the M20/4, and very soon the DA15/4. But of course, these are no faster. M20/4 is at least usually cheaper, when you can find it. And DA15 is wide enough to be considered a true wide angle. But if you want AF in a focal length that doesn't require to find a new way of looking at the world, DA21 does indeed fill that niche nicely.

axl · 03-09-2009, 03:18 PM

congrats on purchase James, hope you'll keep us posted...

BR

axl · 03-09-2009, 03:19 PM

Originally posted by Marc Sabatella

Well, there's the M20/4, and very soon the DA15/4. But of course, these are no faster. M20/4 is at least usually cheaper, when you can find it. And DA15 is wide enough to be considered a true wide angle. But if you want AF in a focal length that doesn't require to find a new way of looking at the world, DA21 does indeed fill that niche nicely.

wasn't there FA20/2.8?

Marc Sabatella · 03-09-2009, 03:53 PM

Originally posted by axl

wasn't there FA20/2.8?

Yes, but that stretches the "small" criterion by quite a bit. There are other larger wide primes I didn't mention, either.

AndrewG NY · 03-09-2009, 03:55 PM

Originally posted by Ash

I don't mind these results - I think it would be a great street lens.
Other than the 31 ltd I couldn't think of too many other good primes in this focal range (perhaps the 28/3.5?)

Thanks for sharing James.

This is the thing though--28mm or 31mm really aren't really IN this focal range.

Perhaps a better comparison might be a 20mm or 24mm lens but please suggest which of these, available in K-mount, are actually better than the DA21? The FA*24/2 is faster and offers great center-sharpness...but borders don't really match the DA21 until f/8. FA20/2.8 is slightly faster but not better. A good 24/2.8 prime like Sigma Ultrawide II is pretty close, but is it really better? Pentax has some good zooms like DA*16-50/2.8, DA16-45/4, and DA17-70/4 that all perform well at 21-24mm with low distortion and good resolution but they all are more prone to suffering from CA and there's no getting around the fact that they are relatively huge in comparison to the prime.

**GaryM** · 03-09-2009, 04:00 PM

Originally posted by Marc Sabatella

Well, there's the M20/4, and very soon the DA15/4. But of course, these are no faster. M20/4 is at least usually cheaper, when you can find it. And DA15 is wide enough to be considered a true wide angle. But if you want AF in a focal length that doesn't require to find a new way of looking at the world, DA21 does indeed fill that niche nicely.

And I've asked this before and I'll ask again: which 20/21mm autofocus prime lens is optically better than the DA21? A lens this wide just can't be as 'crispy' sharp in the corners as longer focal lengths. For what it is, I think the DA21 is a first-rate performer.

AndrewG NY · 03-09-2009, 04:06 PM

Originally posted by legacyb4

That looks positively delicious!

x2 on the food image. Who's to say that bokeh can't play a role with wide angle shots?

legacyb4 · 03-10-2009, 10:06 AM

Adding to the LBA for those sitting on the fence, I toted around my newly acquired, used DA 21mm and so far, I have to say I like it!

Pros - small, small, small. The K20D feels like a small camera with the DA 21mm on it and makes it ever so portable. Nice color saturation even under weird lighting conditions.

Cons - not sure what to do about a protector filter; what is everyone else doing? Not as easy to draw out the dreamy bokeh backgrounds but with proper composition, I'm sure it's not that hard at F3.2.

Here's a day in the life of my 21mm (hope it's okay to add to the pics!).

On the street:

indoors (at the skate rink):

and candids:

ILoveVerdi · 03-10-2009, 10:53 AM

I've been having a lot of fun with this lens. It seems quite sharp to me, especially at F8. F3.2 is just fine. I wish it were a bit faster, obviously, but it's definitely been well worth the money.

Voe · 03-10-2009, 03:53 PM

Congratulations on your new 21mm Limited, James!
I am sure you will love it. I've been always happy with mine.

Earlybird · 03-11-2009, 10:24 AM

I can also provide feedback on the DA21mm ltd. which I bought at B&H Video store about a couple of weeks ago. I took it to sunny Key West to test it out on my K100D (no filter on lens).

On the pro side, the size of the lens is so small, so I could pack my K100D in a small case. My difficulty from using this lens was that you had to fight to keep it from overexposing on sunny days even when shooting family members by the pool, ocean, by tennis courts, etc. I tried to keep the aperature no wider than F5.6 in manual mode, but on auto mode, it zoomed to f8.0 when shooting. When I used manual, I had to set the shutter speed very high to control exposure, even though the ISO was set to 200.

It operates like a wide angle lens -- very little bokeh unless you zoom close to your subject. As a result, I did not find people shots very crisp compared to my tamron zoom lenses. This is probably a great lens for taking landscape shots. Personally, I want more crisp shots of people if I'm doing street shooting. I need more advice on what settings to use when using the DA21mm lens.

I like the size of the DA21, but am researching whether the FA50, DA40, or DA70 lenses might give me sharper pictures for street shooting. Looking for advice.

emr · 04-01-2009, 07:25 AM

At f/3.2 the lens doesn't seem too fast. Is that a problem in the house?

ILoveVerdi · 04-01-2009, 01:50 PM

Originally posted by emr

At f/3.2 the lens doesn't seem too fast. Is that a problem in the house?

It can be. During the day indoors, it is usable. At night I switch to something faster.

**GaryM** · 04-01-2009, 01:53 PM

Originally posted by ILoveVerdi

It can be. During the day indoors, it is usable. At night I switch to something faster.

Nobody complains about the speed of f2.8 wide lenses, yet that 1/3 of a stop difference sure seems to bother a lot of people.

legacyb4 · 04-01-2009, 02:34 PM

I was thinking the same thing... I'm going to be picking up a used DA 70mm this weekend and at F2.4, it's within spitting range of the FA 77 F1.8 for max aperture...

Originally posted by GaryM

Nobody complains about the speed of f2.8 wide lenses, yet that 1/3 of a stop difference sure seems to bother a lot of people.

03-11-2009, 10:24 AM	#26
Earlybird New Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: New England Posts: 19	DA21mm Ltd. I can also provide feedback on the DA21mm ltd. which I bought at B&H Video store about a couple of weeks ago. I took it to sunny Key West to test it out on my K100D (no filter on lens). On the pro side, the size of the lens is so small, so I could pack my K100D in a small case. My difficulty from using this lens was that you had to fight to keep it from overexposing on sunny days even when shooting family members by the pool, ocean, by tennis courts, etc. I tried to keep the aperature no wider than F5.6 in manual mode, but on auto mode, it zoomed to f8.0 when shooting. When I used manual, I had to set the shutter speed very high to control exposure, even though the ISO was set to 200. It operates like a wide angle lens -- very little bokeh unless you zoom close to your subject. As a result, I did not find people shots very crisp compared to my tamron zoom lenses. This is probably a great lens for taking landscape shots. Personally, I want more crisp shots of people if I'm doing street shooting. I need more advice on what settings to use when using the DA21mm lens. I like the size of the DA21, but am researching whether the FA50, DA40, or DA70 lenses might give me sharper pictures for street shooting. Looking for advice.

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03-09-2009, 02:15 PM	#16
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,685	Originally posted by k100d i've said this before, technically, there really isn't anything spectacular about this lens, although some people like the way it renders. it has barrel distortion, not very fast, rather average sharpness out in the corners. but when you need a small wide, there's really no alternative. Well, there's the M20/4, and very soon the DA15/4. But of course, these are no faster. M20/4 is at least usually cheaper, when you can find it. And DA15 is wide enough to be considered a true wide angle. But if you want AF in a focal length that doesn't require to find a new way of looking at the world, DA21 does indeed fill that niche nicely.

03-09-2009, 03:18 PM	#17
axl Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Nove Zamky, Slovakia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,183	congrats on purchase James, hope you'll keep us posted... BR

03-09-2009, 03:19 PM	#18
axl Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Nove Zamky, Slovakia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,183	Originally posted by Marc Sabatella Well, there's the M20/4, and very soon the DA15/4. But of course, these are no faster. M20/4 is at least usually cheaper, when you can find it. And DA15 is wide enough to be considered a true wide angle. But if you want AF in a focal length that doesn't require to find a new way of looking at the world, DA21 does indeed fill that niche nicely. wasn't there FA20/2.8?

03-09-2009, 03:53 PM	#19
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,685	Originally posted by axl wasn't there FA20/2.8? Yes, but that stretches the "small" criterion by quite a bit. There are other larger wide primes I didn't mention, either.

03-09-2009, 03:55 PM	#20
AndrewG NY Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Chappaqua, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 688	Originally posted by Ash I don't mind these results - I think it would be a great street lens. Other than the 31 ltd I couldn't think of too many other good primes in this focal range (perhaps the 28/3.5?) Thanks for sharing James. This is the thing though--28mm or 31mm really aren't really IN this focal range. Perhaps a better comparison might be a 20mm or 24mm lens but please suggest which of these, available in K-mount, are actually better than the DA21? The FA24/2 is faster and offers great center-sharpness...but borders don't really match the DA21 until f/8. FA20/2.8 is slightly faster but not better. A good 24/2.8 prime like Sigma Ultrawide II is pretty close, but is it really better? Pentax has some good zooms like DA16-50/2.8, DA16-45/4, and DA17-70/4 that all perform well at 21-24mm with low distortion and good resolution but they all are more prone to suffering from CA and there's no getting around the fact that they are relatively huge in comparison to the prime.

03-09-2009, 04:00 PM	#21
GaryM Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Montclair, CA Photos: Gallery Posts: 426	Originally posted by Marc Sabatella Well, there's the M20/4, and very soon the DA15/4. But of course, these are no faster. M20/4 is at least usually cheaper, when you can find it. And DA15 is wide enough to be considered a true wide angle. But if you want AF in a focal length that doesn't require to find a new way of looking at the world, DA21 does indeed fill that niche nicely. And I've asked this before and I'll ask again: which 20/21mm autofocus prime lens is optically better than the DA21? A lens this wide just can't be as 'crispy' sharp in the corners as longer focal lengths. For what it is, I think the DA21 is a first-rate performer.

03-09-2009, 04:06 PM	#22
AndrewG NY Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Chappaqua, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 688	Originally posted by legacyb4 That looks positively delicious! x2 on the food image. Who's to say that bokeh can't play a role with wide angle shots?

03-10-2009, 10:06 AM	#23
legacyb4 Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Tri-Cities, British Columbia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,784	Adding to the LBA for those sitting on the fence, I toted around my newly acquired, used DA 21mm and so far, I have to say I like it! Pros - small, small, small. The K20D feels like a small camera with the DA 21mm on it and makes it ever so portable. Nice color saturation even under weird lighting conditions. Cons - not sure what to do about a protector filter; what is everyone else doing? Not as easy to draw out the dreamy bokeh backgrounds but with proper composition, I'm sure it's not that hard at F3.2. Here's a day in the life of my 21mm (hope it's okay to add to the pics!). On the street: indoors (at the skate rink): and candids:

03-10-2009, 10:53 AM	#24
ILoveVerdi Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Grand Rapids, MI. USA. Earth. Posts: 139	I've been having a lot of fun with this lens. It seems quite sharp to me, especially at F8. F3.2 is just fine. I wish it were a bit faster, obviously, but it's definitely been well worth the money.

03-10-2009, 03:53 PM	#25
Voe Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Sydney Photos: Gallery Posts: 719	Congratulations on your new 21mm Limited, James! I am sure you will love it. I've been always happy with mine.

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04-01-2009, 07:25 AM	#27
emr Guest	At f/3.2 the lens doesn't seem too fast. Is that a problem in the house?

04-01-2009, 01:50 PM	#28
ILoveVerdi Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Grand Rapids, MI. USA. Earth. Posts: 139	Originally posted by emr At f/3.2 the lens doesn't seem too fast. Is that a problem in the house? It can be. During the day indoors, it is usable. At night I switch to something faster.

04-01-2009, 01:53 PM	#29
GaryM Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Montclair, CA Photos: Gallery Posts: 426	Originally posted by ILoveVerdi It can be. During the day indoors, it is usable. At night I switch to something faster. Nobody complains about the speed of f2.8 wide lenses, yet that 1/3 of a stop difference sure seems to bother a lot of people.

04-01-2009, 02:34 PM	#30
legacyb4 Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Tri-Cities, British Columbia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,784	I was thinking the same thing... I'm going to be picking up a used DA 70mm this weekend and at F2.4, it's within spitting range of the FA 77 F1.8 for max aperture... Originally posted by GaryM Nobody complains about the speed of f2.8 wide lenses, yet that 1/3 of a stop difference sure seems to bother a lot of people.