the poor shall inherit a limited ?

creampuff · 03-30-2009, 12:27 AM

At the risk of upsetting owners of legacy lenses, I'd recommend the OP to dump all the old manual focus lenses especially the non-A lenses in favour of a good modern AF lens like the FA 43mm Limited.

Focusing manually becomes a challenge for the eyes as one gets older. Even with Katzeye or similar focusing screens installed, it can help but only to a point. Sure using old glass is still a viable option but the limitations of shooting manually using the green button and the inability to use all the exposure modes available just makes it more of a challenge to frame and shoot quickly.

octavmandru · 03-30-2009, 01:31 AM

Originally posted by creampuff

At the risk of upsetting owners of legacy lenses, I'd recommend the OP to dump all the old manual focus lenses especially the non-A lenses in favour of a good modern AF lens like the FA 43mm Limited.

Focusing manually becomes a challenge for the eyes as one gets older. Even with Katzeye or similar focusing screens installed, it can help but only to a point. Sure using old glass is still a viable option but the limitations of shooting manually using the green button and the inability to use all the exposure modes available just makes it more of a challenge to frame and shoot quickly.

Yeah! Dump them all, I'll buy it!

(especially Takumars, please)

creampuff · 03-30-2009, 02:41 AM

Originally posted by octavmandru

Yeah! Dump them all, I'll buy it!

(especially Takumars, please)

Why do you want to accumulate "junk"?

séamuis · 03-30-2009, 05:31 AM

Originally posted by creampuff

At the risk of upsetting owners of legacy lenses, I'd recommend the OP to dump all the old manual focus lenses especially the non-A lenses in favour of a good modern AF lens like the FA 43mm Limited.

Focusing manually becomes a challenge for the eyes as one gets older. Even with Katzeye or similar focusing screens installed, it can help but only to a point. Sure using old glass is still a viable option but the limitations of shooting manually using the green button and the inability to use all the exposure modes available just makes it more of a challenge to frame and shoot quickly.

who said he wanted to frame and shoot quickly?

Marc Sabatella · 03-30-2009, 07:52 AM

Originally posted by Andi Lo

There's the DFA 100. Again, Pentax seems to think of focal length as their 35mm FOV equivalents, so using that principle the range we're missing now is the 135mm (90mm), 180 (120mm - pentax never made this length though) and 200mm (135mm).

Pentax made a 120 - the M120/2.8. Or maybe you meant they didn't make a 180? That could be.

Marc Sabatella · 03-30-2009, 07:59 AM

Originally posted by creampuff

At the risk of upsetting owners of legacy lenses, I'd recommend the OP to dump all the old manual focus lenses especially the non-A lenses in favour of a good modern AF lens like the FA 43mm Limited.

Focusing manually becomes a challenge for the eyes as one gets older. Even with Katzeye or similar focusing screens installed, it can help but only to a point.

You're right, it *does* upset me - not because I think you're wrong, but because I fear you are right. I love my MF lenses, and it will make me sad to have to replace them someday. Although perhaps by the time that becomes necessary, there will be suitable alternatives - there aren't now.

On the positive side, my eyes are *already* pretty bad. I've worn glasses since elementary school, and the near-sightedness and astigmatism I've lived with all my life are now accompanied by difficulty with close focus; I'm sure bifocals are coming soon. And yet I can still focus manually to my satisfaction with my K200D & stock screen (the O-ME53 helps). So hopefully it will be a while before I have to think about this.

Quote:

the limitations of shooting manually using the green button

Here, I can't imagine ever going back to any other way of shooting. My camera never leaves "M", even with my DA lenses. Much more natural to me to set exposure based on prevailing lighting conditions than to let the camera chase every difference in clothing color in the people I am shooting and have to worry about what kinds of scenes will require exposure compensation. Been there, done that, and "M" works out much better for me.

philbaum · 03-30-2009, 11:12 AM

Originally posted by Marc Sabatella

You're right, it *does* upset me - not because I think you're wrong, but because I fear you are right. I love my MF lenses, and it will make me sad to have to replace them someday. Although perhaps by the time that becomes necessary, there will be suitable alternatives - there aren't now.

On the positive side, my eyes are *already* pretty bad. I've worn glasses since elementary school, and the near-sightedness and astigmatism I've lived with all my life are now accompanied by difficulty with close focus; I'm sure bifocals are coming soon. And yet I can still focus manually to my satisfaction with my K200D & stock screen (the O-ME53 helps). So hopefully it will be a while before I have to think about this.

Here, I can't imagine ever going back to any other way of shooting. My camera never leaves "M", even with my DA lenses. Much more natural to me to set exposure based on prevailing lighting conditions than to let the camera chase every difference in clothing color in the people I am shooting and have to worry about what kinds of scenes will require exposure compensation. Been there, done that, and "M" works out much better for me.

Marc
I'm 60 with glasses (now "progressive" bifocals :-)) since grade school as well. And I can still use a manual lens or 2. But the lens i use most often are the FA-50 and DA 35 ltd. And if i had to choose today, it would be the DA-35 with some manual 50's. I find that with manual focusing, except with a very few lenses, that its hard to get it right the first time, esp. with the longer lenses.

I think the advice someone gave to get one walk around AF lens is good. I'm not sophisticated enough to distinguish between the image qualities from a FA 31 (probably will never handle that one :-)), FA 35, FA 40, FA 43, but there is something something special about that range. Seeing the results from the DA 35 has made me a believer.

Finally, your comments on M mode are spot on. It makes me grin when I hear folks talk about using the other modes, then admit they have to adjust the EV settings a stop or 2 because of this or that condition.

So much easier to put the camera on M, hit the green button after i get the aperture or shutter i want, then work from that spot.

I have discovered that if i'm in a walking group, i just put the camera on the Green mode and Pentax delivers the shots i want. But if its images i really care about, like night scenes, etc., i go back to M every time. With M programmed the way it is, AV and TV are superfluous, IMHO.

Phil

Transit · 03-30-2009, 01:17 PM

Originally posted by creampuff

At the risk of upsetting owners of legacy lenses, I'd recommend the OP to dump all the old manual focus lenses especially the non-A lenses in favour of a good modern AF lens like the FA 43mm Limited.

Focusing manually becomes a challenge for the eyes as one gets older. Even with Katzeye or similar focusing screens installed, it can help but only to a point. Sure using old glass is still a viable option but the limitations of shooting manually using the green button and the inability to use all the exposure modes available just makes it more of a challenge to frame and shoot quickly.

OP here

I agree with second bit and struggle with the first

realising what a gearist I am . Not just with the quality aspect, also the concept of 30 or 40 year old lenses. I'm sentimental
I'm not worried about exposure modes, using M or Av.

But I also want the chance of focus achieved.
e.g I had a chance at some quick candids last night, friends walking towards me in a well lit hall, from 12 to 3 feet...
had the 28mm Super tak on and the angle was quite useful, prefocused, hit the AE button and went to iso800.
as they walked I attempted to focus ...couldn't see a lot
I think the DA 40 would have pulled off sharper pics at 2.4 ?

greyscale only

I think the DA70 has entered the picture and my girlfriend just lent me her credit card...

Transit · 03-30-2009, 01:22 PM

Originally posted by séamuis

who said he wanted to frame and shoot quickly?

maybe I could

I love plant shots and things that wait around while I focus
but also like to almost point and shoot where AF becomes much more of an issue.

Class A · 03-30-2009, 02:11 PM

Originally posted by Transit

realising what a gearist I am.

Close your eyes. Assume you got your Ltd and imagine all the classic stuff gone. Can you bear the thought of all the craftsmanship, solid build, and wonderful handling gone?

Now cuddle your babies and tell them you will never consider parting with them again.

Originally posted by Transit

But I also want the chance of focus achieved.

Wouldn't the kit lens do for such situations?
Consider getting a cheaper lens, such as the kit lens, for these AF applications. This may allow you to keep your precious lenses and only part with some duplicates or lenses you don't use at all.

Originally posted by Transit

I think the DA 40 would have pulled off sharper pics at 2.4 ?

Hmmh, f/2.4 and movement? I don't know. Perhaps actual owners of the lens could put in a veto but I think that sounds like a challenge.

For such a situation, it would be better to use a safer aperture and perhaps some bounced flash, me thinks.

Again, I guess the kit lens would have more than sufficed in terms of IQ for such a shot.

schmik · 03-30-2009, 02:12 PM

I'd say that buying from Aus in NZ would make sense. Shipping charges from the USA are terrible and both our dollars are not so good right now.

As far as dumping the MF lenses. Why?
Did you know that not all people are old?
Did you know that not all people have bad eyes?
Did you know that some people shoot from tripods on subjects that do not move much?
Do you know how everyone shoots and what is best for them? Wow you must be pretty clever.

BTW, i usually buy from digitalcamerawarehouse dot com dot au.

cheers
mike

Transit · 03-30-2009, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by Class A

Close your eyes. Assume you got your Ltd and imagine all the classic stuff gone. Can you bear the thought of all the craftsmanship, solid build, and wonderful handling gone?

Now cuddle your babies and tell them you will never consider parting with them again.

arggg now you mess with my tiny mind

Originally posted by Class A

Wouldn't the kit lens do for such situations?
Consider getting a cheaper lens, such as the kit lens, for these AF applications. This may allow you to keep your precious lenses and only part with some duplicates or lenses you don't use at all.

too late

Originally posted by Class A

Hmmh, f/2.4 and movement? I don't know. Perhaps actual owners of the lens could put in a veto but I think that sounds like a challenge.

For such a situation, it would be better to use a safer aperture and perhaps some bounced flash, me thinks.

Again, I guess the kit lens would have more than sufficed in terms of IQ for such a shot.

yes it was very slow and yes you are right but...
too late

$nz509.19
a small but noticable grin is beginning to spread on my sad LBA dial

Transit · 03-30-2009, 02:21 PM

looks like it does very handy macro on tubes...
maybe I have to sell the Tamron 90SP too

Transit · 03-30-2009, 02:23 PM

Originally posted by schmik

I'd say that buying from Aus in NZ would make sense. Shipping charges from the USA are terrible and both our dollars are not so good right now.
....
BTW, i usually buy from digitalcamerawarehouse dot com dot au.

cheers
mike

Thanks Mike, yes and our $ has been handily rising against Oz

only one outfit sends offshore CA Camera House

jawn doe · 03-30-2009, 02:33 PM

I'm pretty sure my k10 came with a knockoff katz eye. I got it on ebay with the split prism installed and the standard screen in a case, but the split prism on mine is diagonal, so i dont think its a legit katzeye. the prism starts dimming early, but with careful eye placement its still usable at 8 or 9. i cant think of a time i would ever need a split prism to be funtional past 6.3 (slowest lens i own is the kit lens cause i needed a cheap af that could go wide) because i dont use any extention tubes or TCs or any other add ons really.
I honestly could not really imagine using an slr much without a split prism. even with af, you can use the prism to make sure it focused on what you wanted it to, not something else thats in the af zone.

03-30-2009, 07:52 AM	#20
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,685	Originally posted by Andi Lo There's the DFA 100. Again, Pentax seems to think of focal length as their 35mm FOV equivalents, so using that principle the range we're missing now is the 135mm (90mm), 180 (120mm - pentax never made this length though) and 200mm (135mm). Pentax made a 120 - the M120/2.8. Or maybe you meant they didn't make a 180? That could be. Last edited by Marc Sabatella; 03-30-2009 at 08:00 AM.

03-30-2009, 11:12 AM	#22
philbaum Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA Posts: 3,659	I agree with all that... Originally posted by Marc Sabatella You're right, it does upset me - not because I think you're wrong, but because I fear you are right. I love my MF lenses, and it will make me sad to have to replace them someday. Although perhaps by the time that becomes necessary, there will be suitable alternatives - there aren't now. On the positive side, my eyes are already pretty bad. I've worn glasses since elementary school, and the near-sightedness and astigmatism I've lived with all my life are now accompanied by difficulty with close focus; I'm sure bifocals are coming soon. And yet I can still focus manually to my satisfaction with my K200D & stock screen (the O-ME53 helps). So hopefully it will be a while before I have to think about this. Here, I can't imagine ever going back to any other way of shooting. My camera never leaves "M", even with my DA lenses. Much more natural to me to set exposure based on prevailing lighting conditions than to let the camera chase every difference in clothing color in the people I am shooting and have to worry about what kinds of scenes will require exposure compensation. Been there, done that, and "M" works out much better for me. Marc I'm 60 with glasses (now "progressive" bifocals :-)) since grade school as well. And I can still use a manual lens or 2. But the lens i use most often are the FA-50 and DA 35 ltd. And if i had to choose today, it would be the DA-35 with some manual 50's. I find that with manual focusing, except with a very few lenses, that its hard to get it right the first time, esp. with the longer lenses. I think the advice someone gave to get one walk around AF lens is good. I'm not sophisticated enough to distinguish between the image qualities from a FA 31 (probably will never handle that one :-)), FA 35, FA 40, FA 43, but there is something something special about that range. Seeing the results from the DA 35 has made me a believer. Finally, your comments on M mode are spot on. It makes me grin when I hear folks talk about using the other modes, then admit they have to adjust the EV settings a stop or 2 because of this or that condition. So much easier to put the camera on M, hit the green button after i get the aperture or shutter i want, then work from that spot. I have discovered that if i'm in a walking group, i just put the camera on the Green mode and Pentax delivers the shots i want. But if its images i really care about, like night scenes, etc., i go back to M every time. With M programmed the way it is, AV and TV are superfluous, IMHO. Phil

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03-30-2009, 12:27 AM	#16
creampuff Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Singapore Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,953	At the risk of upsetting owners of legacy lenses, I'd recommend the OP to dump all the old manual focus lenses especially the non-A lenses in favour of a good modern AF lens like the FA 43mm Limited. Focusing manually becomes a challenge for the eyes as one gets older. Even with Katzeye or similar focusing screens installed, it can help but only to a point. Sure using old glass is still a viable option but the limitations of shooting manually using the green button and the inability to use all the exposure modes available just makes it more of a challenge to frame and shoot quickly.

03-30-2009, 01:31 AM	#17
octavmandru Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: somewhere around Posts: 615	Originally posted by creampuff At the risk of upsetting owners of legacy lenses, I'd recommend the OP to dump all the old manual focus lenses especially the non-A lenses in favour of a good modern AF lens like the FA 43mm Limited. Focusing manually becomes a challenge for the eyes as one gets older. Even with Katzeye or similar focusing screens installed, it can help but only to a point. Sure using old glass is still a viable option but the limitations of shooting manually using the green button and the inability to use all the exposure modes available just makes it more of a challenge to frame and shoot quickly. Yeah! Dump them all, I'll buy it! (especially Takumars, please)

03-30-2009, 02:41 AM	#18
creampuff Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Singapore Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,953	Originally posted by octavmandru Yeah! Dump them all, I'll buy it! (especially Takumars, please) Why do you want to accumulate "junk"?

03-30-2009, 05:31 AM	#19
séamuis Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Savannah, U.S./Baguio City, P.H. Posts: 5,979	Originally posted by creampuff At the risk of upsetting owners of legacy lenses, I'd recommend the OP to dump all the old manual focus lenses especially the non-A lenses in favour of a good modern AF lens like the FA 43mm Limited. Focusing manually becomes a challenge for the eyes as one gets older. Even with Katzeye or similar focusing screens installed, it can help but only to a point. Sure using old glass is still a viable option but the limitations of shooting manually using the green button and the inability to use all the exposure modes available just makes it more of a challenge to frame and shoot quickly. who said he wanted to frame and shoot quickly?

03-30-2009, 07:59 AM	#21
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,685	Originally posted by creampuff At the risk of upsetting owners of legacy lenses, I'd recommend the OP to dump all the old manual focus lenses especially the non-A lenses in favour of a good modern AF lens like the FA 43mm Limited. Focusing manually becomes a challenge for the eyes as one gets older. Even with Katzeye or similar focusing screens installed, it can help but only to a point. You're right, it does upset me - not because I think you're wrong, but because I fear you are right. I love my MF lenses, and it will make me sad to have to replace them someday. Although perhaps by the time that becomes necessary, there will be suitable alternatives - there aren't now. On the positive side, my eyes are already pretty bad. I've worn glasses since elementary school, and the near-sightedness and astigmatism I've lived with all my life are now accompanied by difficulty with close focus; I'm sure bifocals are coming soon. And yet I can still focus manually to my satisfaction with my K200D & stock screen (the O-ME53 helps). So hopefully it will be a while before I have to think about this. Quote: the limitations of shooting manually using the green button Here, I can't imagine ever going back to any other way of shooting. My camera never leaves "M", even with my DA lenses. Much more natural to me to set exposure based on prevailing lighting conditions than to let the camera chase every difference in clothing color in the people I am shooting and have to worry about what kinds of scenes will require exposure compensation. Been there, done that, and "M" works out much better for me.

03-30-2009, 01:17 PM	#23
Transit Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Whanganui NZ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,624 Original Poster	Originally posted by creampuff At the risk of upsetting owners of legacy lenses, I'd recommend the OP to dump all the old manual focus lenses especially the non-A lenses in favour of a good modern AF lens like the FA 43mm Limited. Focusing manually becomes a challenge for the eyes as one gets older. Even with Katzeye or similar focusing screens installed, it can help but only to a point. Sure using old glass is still a viable option but the limitations of shooting manually using the green button and the inability to use all the exposure modes available just makes it more of a challenge to frame and shoot quickly. OP here I agree with second bit and struggle with the first realising what a gearist I am . Not just with the quality aspect, also the concept of 30 or 40 year old lenses. I'm sentimental I'm not worried about exposure modes, using M or Av. But I also want the chance of focus achieved. e.g I had a chance at some quick candids last night, friends walking towards me in a well lit hall, from 12 to 3 feet... had the 28mm Super tak on and the angle was quite useful, prefocused, hit the AE button and went to iso800. as they walked I attempted to focus ...couldn't see a lot I think the DA 40 would have pulled off sharper pics at 2.4 ? greyscale only I think the DA70 has entered the picture and my girlfriend just lent me her credit card...

03-30-2009, 01:22 PM	#24
Transit Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Whanganui NZ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,624 Original Poster	Originally posted by séamuis who said he wanted to frame and shoot quickly? maybe I could I love plant shots and things that wait around while I focus but also like to almost point and shoot where AF becomes much more of an issue.

03-30-2009, 02:11 PM	#25
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by Transit realising what a gearist I am. Close your eyes. Assume you got your Ltd and imagine all the classic stuff gone. Can you bear the thought of all the craftsmanship, solid build, and wonderful handling gone? Now cuddle your babies and tell them you will never consider parting with them again. Originally posted by Transit But I also want the chance of focus achieved. Wouldn't the kit lens do for such situations? Consider getting a cheaper lens, such as the kit lens, for these AF applications. This may allow you to keep your precious lenses and only part with some duplicates or lenses you don't use at all. Originally posted by Transit I think the DA 40 would have pulled off sharper pics at 2.4 ? Hmmh, f/2.4 and movement? I don't know. Perhaps actual owners of the lens could put in a veto but I think that sounds like a challenge. For such a situation, it would be better to use a safer aperture and perhaps some bounced flash, me thinks. Again, I guess the kit lens would have more than sufficed in terms of IQ for such a shot.

03-30-2009, 02:12 PM	#26
schmik Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sydney Aus Photos: Gallery Posts: 527	I'd say that buying from Aus in NZ would make sense. Shipping charges from the USA are terrible and both our dollars are not so good right now. As far as dumping the MF lenses. Why? Did you know that not all people are old? Did you know that not all people have bad eyes? Did you know that some people shoot from tripods on subjects that do not move much? Do you know how everyone shoots and what is best for them? Wow you must be pretty clever. BTW, i usually buy from digitalcamerawarehouse dot com dot au. cheers mike

03-30-2009, 02:19 PM	#27
Transit Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Whanganui NZ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,624 Original Poster	Originally posted by Class A Close your eyes. Assume you got your Ltd and imagine all the classic stuff gone. Can you bear the thought of all the craftsmanship, solid build, and wonderful handling gone? Now cuddle your babies and tell them you will never consider parting with them again. arggg now you mess with my tiny mind Originally posted by Class A Wouldn't the kit lens do for such situations? Consider getting a cheaper lens, such as the kit lens, for these AF applications. This may allow you to keep your precious lenses and only part with some duplicates or lenses you don't use at all. too late Originally posted by Class A Hmmh, f/2.4 and movement? I don't know. Perhaps actual owners of the lens could put in a veto but I think that sounds like a challenge. For such a situation, it would be better to use a safer aperture and perhaps some bounced flash, me thinks. Again, I guess the kit lens would have more than sufficed in terms of IQ for such a shot. yes it was very slow and yes you are right but... too late $nz509.19 a small but noticable grin is beginning to spread on my sad LBA dial

03-30-2009, 02:21 PM	#28
Transit Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Whanganui NZ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,624 Original Poster	looks like it does very handy macro on tubes... maybe I have to sell the Tamron 90SP too

03-30-2009, 02:23 PM	#29
Transit Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Whanganui NZ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,624 Original Poster	Originally posted by schmik I'd say that buying from Aus in NZ would make sense. Shipping charges from the USA are terrible and both our dollars are not so good right now. .... BTW, i usually buy from digitalcamerawarehouse dot com dot au. cheers mike Thanks Mike, yes and our $ has been handily rising against Oz only one outfit sends offshore CA Camera House

03-30-2009, 02:33 PM	#30
jawn doe New Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Philly Posts: 23	I'm pretty sure my k10 came with a knockoff katz eye. I got it on ebay with the split prism installed and the standard screen in a case, but the split prism on mine is diagonal, so i dont think its a legit katzeye. the prism starts dimming early, but with careful eye placement its still usable at 8 or 9. i cant think of a time i would ever need a split prism to be funtional past 6.3 (slowest lens i own is the kit lens cause i needed a cheap af that could go wide) because i dont use any extention tubes or TCs or any other add ons really. I honestly could not really imagine using an slr much without a split prism. even with af, you can use the prism to make sure it focused on what you wanted it to, not something else thats in the af zone.