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04-08-2009, 02:38 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by knochelbiter Quote
Couldn't ask for better timing for this thread. I've only had a couple chances to use the Tele-Takumar 400/5.6 I bought last year, and I had my first run-in with the dreaded purple fringe on Sunday...



I was limited as to stopping-down much (this was handheld from ~30 feet).

This pic is after using LR2 removal @ 100%. Is there anything else I can do? What's the best way to remove this in PSP?
I gave up with purple fringe removal in PSP. (I have PSP X2) as I noted above use the chromaric aboration removal tool which allows you to select the color you want and the radius of correction. Look at what I did with the black bird for example. That was on the JPEG just copied out of the post.

THe advantages other than working on colors other than purple, is that you can enter multiple colors to work on, within the tool. it can do them all at once, but be careful about radius size, as it can leave the picture artificial. My approach is to leave the Dark CA in the picture as they don;t show in prints, but go after the red and green in the whites if they are too bad around the subject, but forget about background. all out of focus will have CA

04-08-2009, 02:46 AM   #17
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A "good" example of "bad" technique - over-exposed, strong back light, busy out of focus background etc etc.
Taken with a 100mm (aperture size) so-called "ED" glass Pentax spotter with the Pentax SLR camera adapter at an effective FL of 1920mm.

Second one taken under even worse conditions (very intense glare from early morning sun just beginning to cut through early morning fog) with a APO triplet.

Last edited by wildman; 04-17-2009 at 02:55 AM.
04-08-2009, 01:54 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by knochelbiter Quote
Couldn't ask for better timing for this thread.
Absolutely! In fact, I was thinking of posting on the topic to solicit exactly the sort of expert advice that's emerged here.

In fact, this thread prompted me to revisit a shot (taken with the SMC 200mm f2.5) I had given up on. I had thought my usual practice of using Replace Color in PSE to desaturate the fringing wouldn't work well in this case--since the fringing was green and there was a lot of green in the background--but I was pleasantly surprised.

Last edited by dadipentak; 12-28-2009 at 03:02 PM.
03-24-2010, 08:14 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by 8540tomg Quote
What bird is this? I seem to have captured the exact same bird, over here in Germany ...


1000mm (35mm equivalent focal length), cropped from a shot with K-7 + DA* 60-250.


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03-24-2010, 08:52 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
What bird is this? I seem to have captured the exact same bird, over here in Germany ...


1000mm (35mm equivalent focal length), cropped from a shot with K-7 + DA* 60-250.


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Spatz/Sperling: Once common, even the most common bird, but now on the list of endagered species here (seriously). There are different varieties (Feldsperling for instance) and I need to look up, which one this is. They are lovely.

And a very nice image, too. Sharp and with a nice expression.

Ben
03-24-2010, 09:14 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ben_Edict Quote
Spatz/Sperling: Once common, even the most common bird, but now on the list of endagered species here (seriously). There are different varieties (Feldsperling for instance) and I need to look up, which one this is. They are lovely.

And a very nice image, too. Sharp and with a nice expression.

Ben
Yeah, I thought "Spatz" but then I saw it here from 8540tomg. They once were everywhere in the city ...

This particular one was at Munich Airport, an area supposed to be free of birds

It tried to get feeded by us


P.S.
Image is even sharper full size (despeite the crop). Amazing resolution for a zoom, I must say.

Last edited by falconeye; 03-24-2010 at 09:21 AM.
03-24-2010, 09:29 AM   #22
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I'm not an ornithologist Falconeye but my bird is known as a Common House Sparrow here in Canada. You see them everywhere in S. Ontario. Your bird looks quite similar.

Tom G
03-24-2010, 11:08 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ben_Edict Quote
I have this old Pentax K 500/4.5 lying around for some time. It is an original K mount lens, not the M42 version. Yesterday I took some shots in the garden, in comparisson with the Bigma.

The good news is, that sharpness and contrast of the old Pentax stopped down to around f/8 (to get at least a bit of DOF) is still very acceptable, even on the K20.
But the K 500 shows its age in form of CAs clearly.

I have attached three examples:
1. the full shot, just reduced in size and a bit of LightRoom curves adjustment
2. a 100% crop without fringe removal
3. a 100% crop with fringe removal fully applied = LR cannot remove the red/cyan fringing.
Hi Ben,

I think I've found the best way to correct PF/CA, something I have to deal with all the time, though it's usually pretty well controlled by the ED elements in my FA* 300s. It's not a one-click solution, but it doesn't take too much time, and is worth the effort if the the image is otherwise good. I believe that I'm the originator of this technique, but like any idea, it's probably been thought of before, and I don't hang out on PP fora, so I really don't know. . .

I've never liked the results of the CA removal tools as they generally just desaturate, and you get gray outlines that are sometimes patchy, or in the worst cases, accidental desaturation of other areas of the image that happen to share the same hue, but are not caused by aberrations.

While playing with the cloning tool in PSPP X2, I noticed that there are many "blend mode" options, and decided to try the "color" mode (this is also avalable in PS and just about all the earlier versions of PSP AFAIK). I use 0 hardness, 100% density, and 30% opacity (but other settings work better for different circumstances), leaving the other tool characteristics at default. I choose an appropriate color (adjacent areas are usually the best, but it can be from anywhere in the frame) and started to clone that color over the CA effected areas. On your example, it's easy because of the blown out sky (no original color, so the cloning won't effect the sky area -- color cloning only effects areas that have luminance values between, but not including 0 and 255). If there is color on the other side of the CA fringe, then it too might get changed, but you can always change it back by carefully using the same tool in the opposite direction, and there's always the Undo button. There are other secrets, but I'll let anyone who wants to try this discover them on their own. I will share a couple -- If your clone source moves into a white or black area, expect some spectacular color changes, and you can pick a small area as the source and keep it while moving the target anywhere on the frame by unchecking the "align" box (at least on PSP). This technique can also be used, in some cases, to tame chroma noise with a lower density setting.

Attached are your two examples corrected with my technique-- it took a lot longer to type this post than PP the shots:

Scott

Notice that the CA is not limited to the outside edges, and also introduces some cyan and red around the eye and the lighter feathers to the left, below and to the right of the eye. This technique was also used here. Also the CA effected areas are usually not as dark as they should be. Another blend option can be used to help here, but I didn't take the time. . .

Attached Images
View Picture EXIF
PENTAX K20D  Photo 
View Picture EXIF
PENTAX K20D  Photo     
03-24-2010, 11:22 AM   #24
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Anyone ever use these old K series telephotos on a film camera?

I do and have not noticed any purple fringing. Unfortunately I do not have any colour slides that I have had scanned taken with my K400/5.6, K500/4.5 or K1000/8.

Phil.
03-24-2010, 12:56 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by snostorm Quote
Hi Ben,

I think I've found the best way to correct PF/CA, something I have to deal with all the time, though it's usually pretty well controlled by the ED elements in my FA* 300s. It's not a one-click solution, but it doesn't take too much time, and is worth the effort if the the image is otherwise good. I believe that I'm the originator of this technique, but like any idea, it's probably been thought of before, and I don't hang out on PP fora, so I really don't know. . .

I've never liked the results of the CA removal tools as they generally just desaturate, and you get gray outlines that are sometimes patchy, or in the worst cases, accidental desaturation of other areas of the image that happen to share the same hue, but are not caused by aberrations. ...

Attached are your two examples corrected with my technique-- it took a lot longer to type this post than PP the shots:

Scott

Notice that the CA is not limited to the outside edges, and also introduces some cyan and red around the eye and the lighter feathers to the left, below and to the right of the eye. This technique was also used here. Also the CA effected areas are usually not as dark as they should be. Another blend option can be used to help here, but I didn't take the time. . .
Scott, you have done a great job on this image! Just amazing. I need to learn how you did that, because it will lease new life to that old lens! The grey shadows, which are remains of the standard procedures are indeed annoying, but your processing avoided all that. If you are serious abou the time required, it seems to be a feasible way to go. I'll print out your advice and give it a try asap.

Thanks for sharing this technique!

Ben
03-24-2010, 04:16 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by gofour3 Quote
Anyone ever use these old K series telephotos on a film camera?

I do and have not noticed any purple fringing. Unfortunately I do not have any colour slides that I have had scanned taken with my K400/5.6, K500/4.5 or K1000/8.

Phil.
Phil

I have and have noticed CA which I will differentiate from PF.

With my 300mmF4 there is definitely lateral CA where you have purple on one side and green on the other for out of focus brances in bird shots. There is another issue called purple fringing which seems to be related to not only the lens and CA but to the sensor as well. I think it is part of an issue with lens design on the individual sensor cells.

the shot below is with my 300F4 and 1.7x AF TC shot on film in about 2000 using my PZ-1 and kodacolor Gold 400 ISO. you can see lateral CA in the lens in this image.

03-24-2010, 05:14 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by 8540tomg Quote
I'm not an ornithologist Falconeye but my bird is known as a Common House Sparrow here in Canada. You see them everywhere in S. Ontario. Your bird looks quite similar.

Tom G
Known locally as the "McDonald's" sparrow . . . because they often are seen hanging around fast food joints and making off with a stray fry!
03-24-2010, 05:18 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
Phil

I have and have noticed CA which I will differentiate from PF.

With my 300mmF4 there is definitely lateral CA where you have purple on one side and green on the other for out of focus brances in bird shots. There is another issue called purple fringing which seems to be related to not only the lens and CA but to the sensor as well. I think it is part of an issue with lens design on the individual sensor cells.

the shot below is with my 300F4 and 1.7x AF TC shot on film in about 2000 using my PZ-1 and kodacolor Gold 400 ISO. you can see lateral CA in the lens in this image.
Thanks Lowell.
I have mostly used these larger lenses for distant shots over water and not much for birding. This has another set of issues which are more atmospheric related. (Haze, water & sun reflections) Filters do help some what.

Phil
03-24-2010, 05:56 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by gofour3 Quote
Thanks Lowell.
I have mostly used these larger lenses for distant shots over water and not much for birding. This has another set of issues which are more atmospheric related. (Haze, water & sun reflections) Filters do help some what.

Phil
I aviod them for long distances for exactly those reasons. Adam once did a great post to show atmospheric distortion impact.

BTW the above shot is only cropped slightly from the full 35mm frame. this red shouldered hawk came towards me so fast I was lucky to only lose a little of the wing tip.
03-24-2010, 08:04 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
I aviod them for long distances for exactly those reasons. Adam once did a great post to show atmospheric distortion impact.
Yeah, there are rules of thumb how softness increases due to air turbulence (A) and dust (B). I forgot the exact rules but a 300mm is often beyond this limit already.
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