I was bored. m400 + af1.7X

**Canada_Rockies** · 04-10-2009, 09:45 PM

All right, I admit I'm bored. Being bored, I decided to see if the 1.7X would actually take a photo - or even touch up the focus - with my M 400-5.6. This series was taken wide open, Av, Shutter speed was 0.6 seconds on tripod, SR off, 2 sec mirror lockup, aperture obviously wide open.

The combo will do fine tune auto focus given adequate light and contrast. These were manually focused. Focus distance about 5.7 meters or a little less than 19 feet. This is, then , a 680mm f/9.7 lens equivalent.

The full size jpeg is here on my Flickr site.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3587/3430145435_f0f1e1d928_o.jpg

Full image - no sharpen, just resize.

Top Right Crop

Top Left Crop

Center Crop

Botom Right Crop

Bottom Left Crop

Last edited by Canada_Rockies; 04-10-2009 at 09:56 PM.

Raybo · 04-10-2009, 10:30 PM

Ain't bad CR!

So why the AF TC for a MF image?

**Canada_Rockies** · 04-11-2009, 11:50 AM

Originally posted by Raybo

Ain't bad CR!

So why the AF TC for a MF image?

A little more reach, Raybo, a little more reach. It's quite a jump from 400 X 1.4 to 400 X 1.7. (560 - 680mm), and cost only about 1/2 stop compared to the 1.4. I was some concerned about quality loss with the extra magnification, but it's looking good enough to do some outdoor testing.

Weather co-operating, we are off to the Creston Wildlife Refuge tomorrow. This is a preserved wetland area, and the birds are coming back North. We have robins (well, thrushes really but you know what I mean) and chickadees at the feeder already, and Creston is a lot earlier into the season than we are.

axl · 04-11-2009, 03:44 PM

not too bad Albert,
quite a good news, now I just need to get one of those 1,7 AF TCs for my K400. Though I understand that you have pretty much focus and then the TC wil just make sure you are spot on, right?

Anyway, not bad....

BR

**Canada_Rockies** · 04-11-2009, 05:56 PM

Originally posted by axl

not too bad Albert,
quite a good news, now I just need to get one of those 1,7 AF TCs for my K400. Though I understand that you have pretty much focus and then the TC wil just make sure you are spot on, right?

Anyway, not bad....

BR

It depends on the lens. The longer the lens, the closer you have to be for the AF to work. It does fine tune the focus, but I expect to be using it in MF most of the time. I have found that AF and birds and branches doesn't work all that well. It might be handy for wing shots where the AF cannot be confused.

Tomorrow is test day for the 1.7X and 400. We will be going East to Police Outpost Provincial Park in Alberta, though. It will be sunny there, and showery in Creston. There were a pair of nesting grebes there and I could have used the reach last time we were there. I was still using the MZ-S as primary camera, only had the 1.4X, not the 1.7X, and 560 on film is quite a bit short without a blind (hide in UK).

hinman · 04-11-2009, 07:46 PM

The Pentax F-1.7x AF TC is the best TC that I have used among

Tamron Pz-AF 1.4x TC
Promaster AF 1.7x TC
Tamron 2x MC4 TC
Kiron 2x TC
Pentax F-1.7x AF TC

Though a bit expensive, I have to say the extra is worth the investment. This is a critical piece of TC to work with tele lens to get the extra reach. It works well in getting my inexpensive lens to get to 340mm and 510mm. TC degrades quality in general and I find it relative reasonable to use to get the extra reach for birding. Others always question whether it is better to crop and I wonder the same question. But the thing is, when the bird is so small in the viewfinder, I for one won't even attempt to shoot the object that looks like a dart in the view finder. Without the TC, I can hardly see the bird's eye or body from a distance.

The ideal lens to use with the TC are those K mount manual lens as the partial AF is found very helpful especially with birds. And I even managed to use it on a consumer zoom lens with Tamron 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 in the 300mm end

With Tamron zoom in 300mm

With Soligor 200mm f/2.8 M42

With Komine 200mm f/3.5 in K mount
cropped

Thanks,
Hin

skamaraju · 04-11-2009, 09:29 PM

Hin,
What is your opinion regarding purple fringe? My Tamron 1.4x seems to be free from it, but when I use Pentax 1.7x or Tamron 2.0x, it seems to be very prominent.

**Canada_Rockies** · 04-11-2009, 09:47 PM

Nice shots, Hin.

**Canada_Rockies** · 04-12-2009, 09:18 PM

This image is the best attempt using the 1.7 on the M 400. I found that the combination would just not work except wide open in Av. I left the aperture at f/5.6, and pulling over the depth of field preview balanced the exposure at 1/60, while the actual exposure was 1/320 at the effective aperture of f/9.5, ISO 800. It was a really dark day. Within minutes of this shot, the rain set in in earnest, so we called it a day.

I must conclude that this combination is not practical. The combination will not recognize the manual aperture at all. It never stopped the lens down from f/5.6 no matter what I did. When I used the dof preview or green button to get a wide open exposure the camera indicated 1/60 rather than the 1/320 that gave a centered histogram. It was a fun day despite the disappointment with the 1.7x AF - it would have given me that little bit of extra reach. This image is not cropped in any way.

Imported through DxO to handle the K10D exposure corrections, then imported into Lightroom 2.3, and increased the clarity. No other adjustments.

chhayanat · 04-13-2009, 11:31 AM

Originally posted by Canada_Rockies

This image is the best attempt using the 1.7 on the M 400. I found that the combination would just not work except wide open in Av. I left the aperture at f/5.6, and pulling over the depth of field preview balanced the exposure at 1/60, while the actual exposure was 1/320 at the effective aperture of f/9.5, ISO 800. It was a really dark day.
I must conclude that this combination is not practical. The combination will not recognize the manual aperture at all. It never stopped the lens down from f/5.6 no matter what I did. When I used the dof preview or green button to get a wide open exposure the camera indicated 1/60 rather than the 1/320 that gave a centered histogram....

A pity that the green button/dof preview could not control the camera with the 1.7 TC. The bookshelf pictures were quite encouraging.

**Canada_Rockies** · 04-13-2009, 11:44 AM

Originally posted by chhayanat

A pity that the green button/dof preview could not control the camera with the 1.7 TC. The bookshelf pictures were quite encouraging.

Yes they were. I will fiddle some more one day to see if I can trick the TC into allowing Manual Exposure, but it does not look good so far. I would have liked to use it with the M 100/4 macro as well, but macro + wide open aperture is not a very good combination.

Miserere · 04-13-2009, 01:11 PM

Originally posted by Canada_Rockies

The combination will not recognize the manual aperture at all. It never stopped the lens down from f/5.6 no matter what I did.

Weird! I've used it with a Tokina SD 400mm f/5.6 in P/KA mount and it worked fine. I don't think I've ever tried it on a P/K lens, but I'd say it has something to do with the "A" contacts on the TC not being shorted. Is the rear of the lens painted or polished metal? I'm going to bet "painted".

**Canada_Rockies** · 04-13-2009, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by Miserere

Weird! I've used it with a Tokina SD 400mm f/5.6 in P/KA mount and it worked fine. I don't think I've ever tried it on a P/K lens, but I'd say it has something to do with the "A" contacts on the TC not being shorted. Is the rear of the lens painted or polished metal? I'm going to bet "painted".

You lose on the painted bet. Both M's are plain metal. BUT! I will clean them carefully - they might have a film on them after 30 years or so. I have had no need to clean them for any reason, so I have not. Now I have a reason to at least try it.

Other than the wide open only problem, causing the bad CA that reduce drastically with stopping down, the combination seems to work ok, once you get around a couple of quirks.

I did not mention that to get infinity focus in manual focus mode, I first had to engage AF and focus on a far object to get the converter to stop at the infinity stop. I'll do a careful clean of the back of the lenses and try again, possibly as soon as next weekend.

Ira · 04-13-2009, 05:21 PM

Albert, I'm not into nature photography much, but it seems like a cool way to go in South Florida. (I'm right near the Glades.) Plus, I can put a cooler of beer in there and the cops won't bug me.

I have a decent pop-up tent or two. Are there any resources/links that you can point me too for setting that up to do blind work? Besides sweating my rear off now that summer is here, it sounds like a great way to really take my time and shoot for an entire day.

**Canada_Rockies** · 04-13-2009, 11:16 PM

Originally posted by Ira

Albert, I'm not into nature photography much, but it seems like a cool way to go in South Florida. (I'm right near the Glades.) Plus, I can put a cooler of beer in there and the cops won't bug me.

I have a decent pop-up tent or two. Are there any resources/links that you can point me too for setting that up to do blind work? Besides sweating my rear off now that summer is here, it sounds like a great way to really take my time and shoot for an entire day.

There are a number of sources. I have the following three books that I use as reference for technique:

The Royal Society for the Protection of Birds Guide to Bird & Nature Photography. 1990. Laurie Campbell. Distributed by Sterling in North America
The Adventure of Naure Photography, 1983, Tim Fitzharris. Hurtig Publishers, Edmonton
Photography of Natural Things, 1989, Freeman Patterson, Key Porter Books, Toronto.

I would wander into the local Chapters or Barnes and Noble - any heavy duty book store - and find the books where I like the way the author writes. That's how I got mine. It is a fascinating hobby, and once you have the equipment, the only real expense is the ice for the beer cooler.

04-10-2009, 09:45 PM	#1
Canada_Rockies Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Sparwood, BC, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,385	I was bored. m400 + af1.7X All right, I admit I'm bored. Being bored, I decided to see if the 1.7X would actually take a photo - or even touch up the focus - with my M 400-5.6. This series was taken wide open, Av, Shutter speed was 0.6 seconds on tripod, SR off, 2 sec mirror lockup, aperture obviously wide open. The combo will do fine tune auto focus given adequate light and contrast. These were manually focused. Focus distance about 5.7 meters or a little less than 19 feet. This is, then , a 680mm f/9.7 lens equivalent. The full size jpeg is here on my Flickr site. http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3587/3430145435_f0f1e1d928_o.jpg Full image - no sharpen, just resize. Top Right Crop Top Left Crop Center Crop Botom Right Crop Bottom Left Crop Last edited by Canada_Rockies; 04-10-2009 at 09:56 PM.

04-11-2009, 07:46 PM	#6
hinman Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Fremont, CA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,473	The Pentax F-1.7x AF TC is the best TC that I have used among Tamron Pz-AF 1.4x TC Promaster AF 1.7x TC Tamron 2x MC4 TC Kiron 2x TC Pentax F-1.7x AF TC Though a bit expensive, I have to say the extra is worth the investment. This is a critical piece of TC to work with tele lens to get the extra reach. It works well in getting my inexpensive lens to get to 340mm and 510mm. TC degrades quality in general and I find it relative reasonable to use to get the extra reach for birding. Others always question whether it is better to crop and I wonder the same question. But the thing is, when the bird is so small in the viewfinder, I for one won't even attempt to shoot the object that looks like a dart in the view finder. Without the TC, I can hardly see the bird's eye or body from a distance. The ideal lens to use with the TC are those K mount manual lens as the partial AF is found very helpful especially with birds. And I even managed to use it on a consumer zoom lens with Tamron 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 in the 300mm end With Tamron zoom in 300mm With Soligor 200mm f/2.8 M42 With Komine 200mm f/3.5 in K mount cropped Thanks, Hin Last edited by hinman; 04-11-2009 at 07:53 PM.

04-12-2009, 09:18 PM	#9
Canada_Rockies Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Sparwood, BC, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,385 Original Poster	Great Blue Heron - Duck Lake, Creston Wildlife Refuge, BC, Canada This image is the best attempt using the 1.7 on the M 400. I found that the combination would just not work except wide open in Av. I left the aperture at f/5.6, and pulling over the depth of field preview balanced the exposure at 1/60, while the actual exposure was 1/320 at the effective aperture of f/9.5, ISO 800. It was a really dark day. Within minutes of this shot, the rain set in in earnest, so we called it a day. I must conclude that this combination is not practical. The combination will not recognize the manual aperture at all. It never stopped the lens down from f/5.6 no matter what I did. When I used the dof preview or green button to get a wide open exposure the camera indicated 1/60 rather than the 1/320 that gave a centered histogram. It was a fun day despite the disappointment with the 1.7x AF - it would have given me that little bit of extra reach. This image is not cropped in any way. Imported through DxO to handle the K10D exposure corrections, then imported into Lightroom 2.3, and increased the clarity. No other adjustments.

04-13-2009, 11:16 PM	#15
Canada_Rockies Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Sparwood, BC, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,385 Original Poster	Originally posted by Ira Albert, I'm not into nature photography much, but it seems like a cool way to go in South Florida. (I'm right near the Glades.) Plus, I can put a cooler of beer in there and the cops won't bug me. I have a decent pop-up tent or two. Are there any resources/links that you can point me too for setting that up to do blind work? Besides sweating my rear off now that summer is here, it sounds like a great way to really take my time and shoot for an entire day. There are a number of sources. I have the following three books that I use as reference for technique: The Royal Society for the Protection of Birds Guide to Bird & Nature Photography. 1990. Laurie Campbell. Distributed by Sterling in North America The Adventure of Naure Photography, 1983, Tim Fitzharris. Hurtig Publishers, Edmonton Photography of Natural Things, 1989, Freeman Patterson, Key Porter Books, Toronto. I would wander into the local Chapters or Barnes and Noble - any heavy duty book store - and find the books where I like the way the author writes. That's how I got mine. It is a fascinating hobby, and once you have the equipment, the only real expense is the ice for the beer cooler.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Nature Not your average seagull - M400 F5.6	goddo31	Post Your Photos!	11	11-12-2009 05:47 AM
Nature Fun with new M400 5.6	goddo31	Post Your Photos!	4	11-07-2009 08:23 PM
MF with AF lenses and Tamron TC AF1.4	geoffox23	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	0	02-21-2008 04:11 PM
K500/4.5 and AF1.7X	Piotr	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	2	03-26-2007 02:42 AM

04-10-2009, 10:30 PM	#2
Raybo Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 872	Ain't bad CR! So why the AF TC for a MF image?

04-11-2009, 11:50 AM	#3
Canada_Rockies Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Sparwood, BC, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,385 Original Poster	Originally posted by Raybo Ain't bad CR! So why the AF TC for a MF image? A little more reach, Raybo, a little more reach. It's quite a jump from 400 X 1.4 to 400 X 1.7. (560 - 680mm), and cost only about 1/2 stop compared to the 1.4. I was some concerned about quality loss with the extra magnification, but it's looking good enough to do some outdoor testing. Weather co-operating, we are off to the Creston Wildlife Refuge tomorrow. This is a preserved wetland area, and the birds are coming back North. We have robins (well, thrushes really but you know what I mean) and chickadees at the feeder already, and Creston is a lot earlier into the season than we are.

04-11-2009, 03:44 PM	#4
axl Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Nove Zamky, Slovakia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,183	not too bad Albert, quite a good news, now I just need to get one of those 1,7 AF TCs for my K400. Though I understand that you have pretty much focus and then the TC wil just make sure you are spot on, right? Anyway, not bad.... BR

04-11-2009, 05:56 PM	#5
Canada_Rockies Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Sparwood, BC, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,385 Original Poster	Originally posted by axl not too bad Albert, quite a good news, now I just need to get one of those 1,7 AF TCs for my K400. Though I understand that you have pretty much focus and then the TC wil just make sure you are spot on, right? Anyway, not bad.... BR It depends on the lens. The longer the lens, the closer you have to be for the AF to work. It does fine tune the focus, but I expect to be using it in MF most of the time. I have found that AF and birds and branches doesn't work all that well. It might be handy for wing shots where the AF cannot be confused. Tomorrow is test day for the 1.7X and 400. We will be going East to Police Outpost Provincial Park in Alberta, though. It will be sunny there, and showery in Creston. There were a pair of nesting grebes there and I could have used the reach last time we were there. I was still using the MZ-S as primary camera, only had the 1.4X, not the 1.7X, and 560 on film is quite a bit short without a blind (hide in UK).

04-11-2009, 09:29 PM	#7
skamaraju Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: India Posts: 162	Hin, What is your opinion regarding purple fringe? My Tamron 1.4x seems to be free from it, but when I use Pentax 1.7x or Tamron 2.0x, it seems to be very prominent.

04-11-2009, 09:47 PM	#8
Canada_Rockies Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Sparwood, BC, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,385 Original Poster	Nice shots, Hin.

04-13-2009, 11:31 AM	#10
chhayanat Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: The Cow Belt Photos: Gallery Posts: 173	Originally posted by Canada_Rockies This image is the best attempt using the 1.7 on the M 400. I found that the combination would just not work except wide open in Av. I left the aperture at f/5.6, and pulling over the depth of field preview balanced the exposure at 1/60, while the actual exposure was 1/320 at the effective aperture of f/9.5, ISO 800. It was a really dark day. I must conclude that this combination is not practical. The combination will not recognize the manual aperture at all. It never stopped the lens down from f/5.6 no matter what I did. When I used the dof preview or green button to get a wide open exposure the camera indicated 1/60 rather than the 1/320 that gave a centered histogram.... A pity that the green button/dof preview could not control the camera with the 1.7 TC. The bookshelf pictures were quite encouraging.

04-13-2009, 11:44 AM	#11
Canada_Rockies Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Sparwood, BC, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,385 Original Poster	Originally posted by chhayanat A pity that the green button/dof preview could not control the camera with the 1.7 TC. The bookshelf pictures were quite encouraging. Yes they were. I will fiddle some more one day to see if I can trick the TC into allowing Manual Exposure, but it does not look good so far. I would have liked to use it with the M 100/4 macro as well, but macro + wide open aperture is not a very good combination.

04-13-2009, 01:11 PM	#12
Miserere Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Boston Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,993	Originally posted by Canada_Rockies The combination will not recognize the manual aperture at all. It never stopped the lens down from f/5.6 no matter what I did. Weird! I've used it with a Tokina SD 400mm f/5.6 in P/KA mount and it worked fine. I don't think I've ever tried it on a P/K lens, but I'd say it has something to do with the "A" contacts on the TC not being shorted. Is the rear of the lens painted or polished metal? I'm going to bet "painted".

04-13-2009, 03:56 PM	#13
Canada_Rockies Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Sparwood, BC, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,385 Original Poster	Originally posted by Miserere Weird! I've used it with a Tokina SD 400mm f/5.6 in P/KA mount and it worked fine. I don't think I've ever tried it on a P/K lens, but I'd say it has something to do with the "A" contacts on the TC not being shorted. Is the rear of the lens painted or polished metal? I'm going to bet "painted". You lose on the painted bet. Both M's are plain metal. BUT! I will clean them carefully - they might have a film on them after 30 years or so. I have had no need to clean them for any reason, so I have not. Now I have a reason to at least try it. Other than the wide open only problem, causing the bad CA that reduce drastically with stopping down, the combination seems to work ok, once you get around a couple of quirks. I did not mention that to get infinity focus in manual focus mode, I first had to engage AF and focus on a far object to get the converter to stop at the infinity stop. I'll do a careful clean of the back of the lenses and try again, possibly as soon as next weekend.

04-13-2009, 05:21 PM	#14
Ira Inactive Account Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Coral Springs, FL Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,216	Albert, I'm not into nature photography much, but it seems like a cool way to go in South Florida. (I'm right near the Glades.) Plus, I can put a cooler of beer in there and the cops won't bug me. I have a decent pop-up tent or two. Are there any resources/links that you can point me too for setting that up to do blind work? Besides sweating my rear off now that summer is here, it sounds like a great way to really take my time and shoot for an entire day.