Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
05-09-2009, 07:24 AM   #16
Veteran Member




Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Tri-Cities, British Columbia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,784
Agree in full here although I have to say I went a lot longer than a few months on 2 kit lenses (nearly 2 years). If I recall correctly, my first purchase after the kits was my 24mm because I wanted "wider" which then led into the other primes. And as Diego says, the rest is history...

QuoteOriginally posted by soccerjoe5 Quote
In those few months, I learned a WHOLE LOT. I learned about the different effects of focal lengths and apertures. What they do, what they achieve, their strengths, their weaknesses, and most importantly: how I can express myself in 2 dimensions. Sticking to the kit lens made me know what I wanted most in the beginning: a real wide lens. I started with landscapes. Knowing that, purchasing my next lens was easy. And the rest is history.
Likewise, the funny thing is now that I shoot mostly with primes, I still get looks because my lens looks so small relative to the Canikon folks who shoot with, well, kit lenses

05-09-2009, 07:43 AM   #17
Pentaxian
Digitalis's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Adelaide.
Posts: 8,612
I started with the Pentax 16-45mm f/4 ED AL, and I stuck with it for a year. THEN I raided my families Lens collection and found the primes that matched the focal lengths that I most commonly used on the 16-45. and I still use the 16-45 because it's a great lens for quick work in the studio.

Now, I have reduced my kit down to three fast primes and a constant f/4 telephoto zoom.

and that is the way things are likely to stay.
05-09-2009, 08:32 AM   #18
Pentaxian
Marc Sabatella's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Denver, CO
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 10,686
I tend to agree with Diego, too. I can see the value in skipping the kit lens if you know for sure what you'd want to upgrade to, but that's part of the problem - few DSLR newcomers know. And they'll get all sorts of conflicting advice from well-intentioned people here:

- "18-55 is OK but not sharp enough - get the 16-45 instead"
- "18-55 is OK but not fast enough - get the 16-50 instead"
- "18-55 is OK but slightly sharper, slightly faster, and slightly longer is better - get a 17-70 instead"
- "changing lenses sucks - get a 18-250 instead"
- "zooms suck - get a prime or two instead"

All of these are perfectly sound pieces of advice - *if* you happen to share the priorities of the person giving the advice. Some will be frustrated with the sharpness or the kit lens, some with its speed, some with its range - and some will wonder why others are frustrated with that seems to be a perfectly good lens. How is any newbie to know which of these applies to him? For under $100, I know a great way to find out: get the kit lens and see for yourself. Will you end up wanting to replace it later? Maybe. But the same is true if you end up taking any of the suggestions above - you might decide the 16-45 isn't long enough, the 16-50 or 17-70 too big and not long enough, the 18-250 too much of a compromise, primes too limiting, etc. Basically, there's no way to know which direction any given person will want to go, so why spend more money than in that first stage of figuring out what road you want to be on?
05-09-2009, 11:27 AM   #19
Loyal Site Supporter
pacerr's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Henry, TN
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,875
There IS an alternative to ACQUIRING equipment to solve the "newbie" issue. Find a photo club or a group (even if it's just one other person) or a classroom experience. Beak-to-beak, hands-on experience is far more effective than the well meant, but often confusing, textual advice given from a distance on the net.

Granted, this sort of forum may be the ONLY practical solution for some folks, but we should include the suggestion to "socialize" the photography experience as a very useful tool. Show 'n tell works for big folks too and photography is a very hands-on experience. I've got an acquaintence that couldn't wait to purchase the most expensive macro gear he could afford only to discover the images he thought he wanted to make involved squirming around on 'is belly with the bugs and the mud 'n other icky stuff. Fifteen minutes in his backyard with my gear would have prevented that.

Having said that, and with summer weather showing up in the top-half of the world, how about inciting a riot via some word-of-mouth photo-social gatherings - parks, zoos, historical re-inactments, sports events, etc. "Newbies" specifically invited.

We tend to answer the question asked, even when we realize it's inappropriate to the situation, rather than explaining which questions are the correct ones to ask.

We could also make effective use of a Wiki-type set of 'stickies' where the BEST of the accumulated info on certain basic subjects could be found. "Newbies" don't usually know what questions to ask so they find it difficult to use research resources but it would be useful to be able to point them to a standardized answer with images and URLs. (A recurrent thread regarding the dreaded Ricoh mount, it's ID and fixes is an example. The Tamron web site has a very nice, interactive DOF/focal length comparison resource.)

H2

05-09-2009, 02:11 PM   #20
Veteran Member
nulla's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Melbourne Australia
Posts: 1,560
QuoteQuote:
Basically, there's no way to know which direction any given person will want to go, so why spend more money than in that first stage of figuring out what road you want to be on?
Excellent advice as well... horses for courses ..and what Diego says I agree mostly with as well, its a very good thought provoking subject (thanks Diego for the thread) and we as members here must remember to feel some sort of resposibility in advice given to those starting out and those asking lens questions in particular and I feel that is the bottom line in the message Diego is getting across

Digitalis

I admire your restraint and you have posted sound advice as well..

I was into film (nikon) long before DSLR, but only really came back to photgraphy with DSLR a year or so ago, so many things were/are new to me. I did however endeavour to get good glass and with reading up on, as well as the kind assistance given here I feel I have chosen wisely and kept each lens purchased thus far... and of course use them all

I was 10 months between my last lens purchase and got a new fa limited recently . It was not money that held me back all that time, it was ensuring that the purchase was what I wanted and what I would be using it for as being my main concerns.

When you read posts from some here asking "what lens next" and it follows with "Wide or Long.. Prime or Zoom" then I say tread wearily in your reply.


Marc's above replies and manner in which to reply are excellent general examples.





Neil
05-09-2009, 02:52 PM   #21
Veteran Member
schmik's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sydney Aus
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 527
A lot of personality and culture come into this too. Certain people and certain cultures have different traits that they see themselves having (and admiring).

Eg, some people/cultures like to be seen like Macgyver! "Look at the pics i took with this crappy lens and pre historic body"

Some people see bigger is better. Some people see that price is all important.

FYI, most aussies fall into the first group. Proud to achieve huge results with little resources.
And Americans............. sorry too polite to finish this sentence

Mike
05-09-2009, 04:21 PM   #22
Veteran Member
rparmar's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,783
My first question would be: Do you want to learn photography or just take photos?

The idea of a slow zoom being useful for learning photography is a pretty poor one. Apart from brightly lit days, shots will suck and the budding photographer might very well wonder why their SLR is performing like a point'n'shoot.

I think the only way to learn photography is with a fast prime. If it's manual then all the better.
05-09-2009, 07:12 PM   #23
Site Supporter
stevebrot's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver (USA)
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 26,477
QuoteOriginally posted by schmik Quote
A lot of personality and culture come into this too. Certain people and certain cultures have different traits that they see themselves having (and admiring).

Eg, some people/cultures like to be seen like Macgyver! "Look at the pics i took with this crappy lens and pre historic body"

Some people see bigger is better. Some people see that price is all important.

FYI, most aussies fall into the first group. Proud to achieve huge results with little resources.
And Americans............. sorry too polite to finish this sentence

Mike
I am from the U.S. and have several prehistoric bodies and various lenses of questionable heritage that I enjoy putting through their paces. I even do some pretty good work with them. So far I have avoided the major lens purchases and am generally happy enough though I must admit that there are times...

Steve

(Must not spend tax refund check on DA* 16-55...)

05-09-2009, 07:17 PM   #24
Site Supporter
stevebrot's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver (USA)
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 26,477
QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
My first question would be: Do you want to learn photography or just take photos?

The idea of a slow zoom being useful for learning photography is a pretty poor one. Apart from brightly lit days, shots will suck and the budding photographer might very well wonder why their SLR is performing like a point'n'shoot.

I think the only way to learn photography is with a fast prime. If it's manual then all the better.
I agree about the fast prime. I also agree with the OP that the kit zoom is a great tool to learn with. If the newbie finds that most of his shots are at the long end of the range or they find that the lens is never long enough, the pain will lead the way. If they consistently find that the lens is not fast enough, the pain will lead the way. If they want better wide-angle performance, the pain will lead the way (to more pain in this case...)...

Steve
05-09-2009, 08:10 PM   #25
Veteran Member
jsherman999's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,228
I agree for the most part, but personally, I didn't start to really learn about the potentials of photography until I started shooting with a fast-50 (the FA 50 1.4 in my case.)

It was the third lens I bought after the 18-55 and 50-200 kit lenses, and the 50mm was the lens that really showed me how a DSLR can be different from a top point & shoot.

I'm really glad I got the 50 a few weeks after the kit lenses - I learned more faster, and enjoyed myself a whole lot more. Frankly, the 18-55 was not inspiring me - I felt that I couldn't get very good indoor/low light results no matter what I did. (that was with the K100DS.)

If you're including a 50mm as a potential 'kit' lens, then I agree 100%


.
05-09-2009, 09:51 PM   #26
Pentaxian
Digitalis's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Adelaide.
Posts: 8,612
ohh yeah I agree, a fast fifty is rather essential for newbies. I used to use a Pentas SMC 50mm f/1.4 M42 Takumar lens along side my 16-45mm lens and more often than not I preferred it to the 16-45mm f/4 simply because it was faster and more versatile than the 16-45.

these days I use a Pentax K 50mm f/1.2 - I use it more than I use the FA31 or the FA77 because of it's sheer versatility- and it's spectacular resolution at wider apertures.

Last edited by Digitalis; 05-09-2009 at 09:57 PM.
05-09-2009, 10:24 PM   #27
Veteran Member
soccerjoe5's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Philippines
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,354
Original Poster
Yes the 50 is included in my initial post It was after all, a kit lens back in the film days
05-09-2009, 10:25 PM   #28
Senior Member
DJey's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Philippines
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 286
Had the same experience.. It was a fast 50 that opened my eyes.. heheh..
05-09-2009, 10:31 PM   #29
Veteran Member
soccerjoe5's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Philippines
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,354
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
My first question would be: Do you want to learn photography or just take photos?

The idea of a slow zoom being useful for learning photography is a pretty poor one. Apart from brightly lit days, shots will suck and the budding photographer might very well wonder why their SLR is performing like a point'n'shoot.

I think the only way to learn photography is with a fast prime. If it's manual then all the better.
I quote one of my last statements in the initial post:

"I just felt like letting that out and I want to tell new people that a kit lens, or WHATEVER lens, Limited or not, is perfectly fine as long as you get the photos YOU want."

05-09-2009, 11:34 PM   #30
Veteran Member
Andi Lo's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
Posts: 2,925
Just my personal gripe with fast fifties but I do think that they're not good fov for newbies unless you're really into portraits. SMC tak 50 is still the best lens in my toolshed but I keep finding resons not to use it because of the FOV. Yes, yes, I've seen all kinds of shots made with the fast fifty on crop sensors, but it's just not my focal length, and I suspect this true for most people as well, otherwise the kit lens in the film world would be a 75mm. A fast 35 would be ideal imho... if one as small, cheap and fast as the fifty exists, maybe one day.

my 2c
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
gear, k-mount, kit, lengths, lens, lenses, months, pentax lens, people, photo, photos, slr lens, stuff
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Using just the kit lenses future_retro Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 22 08-12-2010 12:56 PM
What 2 lenses to replace kit lenses ? dales Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 7 06-05-2009 09:10 PM
What 2 lenses to replace kit lenses ? dales Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 18 06-05-2009 08:59 PM
For Sale - Sold: K100D, 2 Kit Lenses, Filter Kit, Book, & DVD Tutorial DaveInPA Sold Items 7 01-30-2009 02:40 AM
For Sale - Sold: SF1 Kit, ME w/50, 250/SL, K AF Lenses, M42 Lenses 247nino Sold Items 5 05-07-2008 04:28 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:37 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top