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06-22-2009, 01:33 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
I consider the 77 a magic lens.
Quoted for truth.

I cant emphasise enough how true this is.

06-22-2009, 02:13 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
I consider the 77 a magic lens.

I've considered buying it its own K20.
06-22-2009, 04:39 PM   #18
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I see the "old skool" vultures have jumped on Mr. The Guy for him pointing out the truth about the FA 77.
Let me quickly and easily dispose just of the latest more obnoxious one.
QuoteOriginally posted by kristoffon Quote
how is the focal length inappropriate? of course it's longer than on film, but are you saying that 77 mm is useless on aps-c?
The DA 70 has a fov of 105mm equivalent.
The DA* 55 has a fov of 83mm (close enough to 85) equivalent.
Both classic, established portrait lengths.
Where does the 120mm equivalent of the FA 77 stand?
Nowhere.
QuoteQuote:
actually the fov change is not relevant. 77mm is long on film and remains long on aps-c.
OK, 77mm had a weird fov on film, and even weirder fov on digital crop.
Your point being...?
QuoteQuote:
you just have to take a couple steps further
Aaaaah, I see.
Have you ever crossed your mind that you are changing the perspective -- critical for portraits?
Probably not.
So that you know -- there are this and other good reasons for choosing particular focal lengths over others.
QuoteQuote:
what functionality does the K7 have that the 77ltd won't utilize? are you talking about distortion & vignetting corretion?
I guess, yes, he talks about that, including lateral CA.
QuoteQuote:
then you don't know what you're talking about because this lens has NONE of them.
They might be small (ANY lens has some) for this particular FA lens, but CAs are a problem for instance on the FA 43.
So:
His point stands -- these corrections are possible only on D(F)A lenses, hence this is one more reason to choose modern lenses
instead of old film ones.
QuoteQuote:
go back to your cave, troll
Actually you go back to your pre-digital existence ("cave").
First learn there how to behave in a civilized manner on a public, digital, Internet forum -- and then come back here.

Or, don't come back, never buy modern cameras and lenses, never use email and Internet.

You will not be missed.
06-22-2009, 06:01 PM   #19
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Making a sweeping statement about a particular FOV being "useless" is questionable at best. There is no "useless" FOV. Now particular people might find something not to their liking, but to say that 77 is useless because it doesn't exist elsewhere is laughable. Why is 105 effective "good" and 120 "useless"? I sure hope that zoom lenses have notches that prevent people from using "useless" FOVs and only allow "real" ones like 28/35/50/85.

I don't care about corrections to the lens. The 77 is magic. Not perfect, but magic. To me. And others. Then again, I try not to pixel peep (the cause of most teeth gnashing over lens imperfections imho), so maybe that is my problem. I should shoot more test shots so I can worry about how lousy my glass is...

The bottom line is that people should use what they like. But the FA ltds are sublime works of art. While imperfect, they capture light wonderfully. And that's all I care about...

06-22-2009, 08:56 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by zaurus Quote
I see the "old skool" vultures have jumped on Mr. The Guy for him pointing out the truth about the FA 77.
Let me quickly and easily dispose just of the latest more obnoxious one.

The DA 70 has a fov of 105mm equivalent.
The DA* 55 has a fov of 83mm (close enough to 85) equivalent.
Both classic, established portrait lengths.
Where does the 120mm equivalent of the FA 77 stand?
Nowhere.

OK, 77mm had a weird fov on film, and even weirder fov on digital crop.
Your point being...?

Aaaaah, I see.
Have you ever crossed your mind that you are changing the perspective -- critical for portraits?
Probably not.
So that you know -- there are this and other good reasons for choosing particular focal lengths over others.

I guess, yes, he talks about that, including lateral CA.

They might be small (ANY lens has some) for this particular FA lens, but CAs are a problem for instance on the FA 43.
So:
His point stands -- these corrections are possible only on D(F)A lenses, hence this is one more reason to choose modern lenses
instead of old film ones.


Actually you go back to your pre-digital existence ("cave").
First learn there how to behave in a civilized manner on a public, digital, Internet forum -- and then come back here.

Or, don't come back, never buy modern cameras and lenses, never use email and Internet.

You will not be missed.

Zaurus, perhaps you should tone it down a bit. I certainly think you should spend time shooting with a lens before you make sweeping statements like that.

Also... being new to the forum - any forum - should always serve as a 'getting to know the place' period of time - jumping in and trashing a lens is one thing, but throwing insults in such a rude and careless manner just doesn't make you look good.

Now - the lens - it has some CA problems, but no more than any other lens with it's specs. I happen to consider it the best lens I've owned, and I've owned (and own) a lot, in two mounts.

I think I've shot a total of 3 rolls of 35mm film through an SLR in my life. I'm here to tell you that the 77ltd shines on digital, and in my opinion, is superior to the DA 70, all things considered. (My opinion, others prefer what the DA 70 brings.)


QuoteQuote:
The DA 70 has a fov of 105mm equivalent.
The DA* 55 has a fov of 83mm (close enough to 85) equivalent.
Both classic, established portrait lengths.
Where does the 120mm equivalent of the FA 77 stand?
Nowhere.

This is particularly silly - you denigrate the idea of 'classic' lenses, then try to use the old-fogey idea of a 'classic' portrait length to show how the 77ltd on DX is 'weird'.

The 105 and 135mm lenses were 'classic' lengths on film. The difference between ~120 (77 equiv) and 105 and 135 doesn't make a d*mn bit of difference with regards to perspective in a portrait application - if that small difference does make a huge difference to you, you're concentrating on the wrong aspects of your photography.

C'mon - lighten up.

EDIT: Zaurus, I notice now that you joined in 2007, so are not 'new', but only have 34 posts. Even stranger, then, that you blow up in this manner - I can only surmise that 1) you actually visit seldom, and 2) you had a bad day at the bash prompt.

Here's to a better tomorrow for you.



.

Last edited by jsherman999; 06-22-2009 at 09:35 PM.
06-22-2009, 09:38 PM   #21
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QuoteQuote:
The bottom line is that people should use what they like. But the FA ltds are sublime works of art. While imperfect, they capture light wonderfully. And that's all I care about...

I agree


Myself I have both the new and what is being called the old world here in lenses, but love the FA Limiteds the most.

Horses for courses and use what you like best... thats why I am a happy Pentax user as the options are great in this respect.

Some people still prefer to buy manual cars

I really also feel that by dragging someone to the ground because you feel they deserve it is no different in my view than the person who is first accused of making harsh and rash comments.


Enjoy your lenses


Neil
06-24-2009, 11:28 AM   #22
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Rude

You can tell the status and longevity on the forum of any person by looking at the info summary. Mr. The Guy is not a "troll" but someone who has been on the forum for a significant time.

He expressed a view that many hold. He expressed himself strongly, but not offensively.

You on the other hand, lost your temper and gave a very abrupt and rude reply, and an ignorant one as well.

Unless you're kidding, your whole post reminds me of how WW2 veterans brag on the old Colt 1911 45ACP pistol. My dad claimed it could down fighter plans, stop tanks, turn back massed infantry attacks, drive nails, and that with 2 rounds left in the magazine!

I have the 77mm. It's good. Not directly into the sun!

QuoteOriginally posted by kristoffon Quote
are you a troll? what a bunch of CRAP

first off, how is the 77 sub optimal? how is the hood inadequate? this lens doesn't even need a hood, you can shoot straight into the sun.

how is the focal length inappropriate? of course it's longer than on film, but are you saying that 77 mm is useless on aps-c? were there never any film 100mm lenses? actually the fov change is not relevant. 77mm is long on film and remains long on aps-c. you just have to take a couple steps further and remains an amazing portrait lens.

what functionality does the K7 have that the 77ltd won't utilize? are you talking about distortion & vignetting corretion? then you don't know what you're talking about because this lens has NONE of them.

go back to your cave, troll
06-24-2009, 11:46 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mr. The Guy Quote

It's a digital world my friend. Join us. IMHO buying old stuff vs. new stuff is always the wrong choice.
the 77mm like all the FA Ltd still being in production today NEW
those are fantastic lenses both on film and digital

FF or not FF

06-24-2009, 12:28 PM   #24
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One instance where I bought "old instead of new" (ALWAYS the wrong choice) is when I purchased my computer monitor. I left the LCD alone and went with CRT. Lo and behold it was a good decision because of digital image editing and all that jazz...

QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
I sure hope that zoom lenses have notches that prevent people from using "useless" FOVs and only allow "real" ones like 28/35/50/85.
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA



HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA



I reckon a focal length is what you make of it.
"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet..."
06-24-2009, 12:30 PM   #25
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Oh, BTW, I love my 77mm Ltd and even though the FL is long, I adore the results I get. More often I am amazed at how lovely it renders the scene. It's very calming for me to look at images recorded with this lens.

06-24-2009, 03:33 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by kcmadr Quote
Oh, BTW, I love my 77mm Ltd and even though the FL is long, I adore the results I get. More often I am amazed at how lovely it renders the scene. It's very calming for me to look at images recorded with this lens.

Thank you - focusing on the personality of the lenses is much better. Do you have the 55mm to compare with? I understand the attachment people have to the 77mm - they describe it like many people talk about their children. I have absolutely no doubt that the 77mm would be a great lens to own; however, I would prefer a 55mm f1.4 with the same emotional temperament as the 77mm. On the other hand, if the 55mm is not as well behaved and endearing as the 77mm, the choice would be clear to me ;}
06-24-2009, 03:46 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by jfsavage Quote
Thank you - focusing on the personality of the lenses is much better. Do you have the 55mm to compare with?
I unfortunately don't.
I unfortunately can't afford one either.

I have the FA 43mm f1.9 Ltd, so that does me in the low light, similar focal length area. I have the FA 50 f1.4 as backup too.

Can you "try before you buy"? That might provide the information you're looking for.
06-24-2009, 06:28 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by kcmadr Quote
I have the FA 43mm f1.9 Ltd, so that does me in the low light, similar focal length area. I have the FA 50 f1.4 as backup too.

Can you "try before you buy"? That might provide the information you're looking for.
That's a nice selection of lenses. The only prime I have is the FA 100mm Macro.

I could buy from Amazon, as they have a great returns policy, but I was really looking for input so that I can start planning my budget.
06-24-2009, 09:09 PM   #29
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I was just messing around for PPG and thought I'd post this from the 43mm Ltd. It's just such a shame that so much gets lost when I post attachments... Oh well, I know it's a great lens.

Last edited by kcmadr; 08-06-2009 at 06:20 PM.
06-25-2009, 03:16 AM   #30
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That is very nice - I love the composition and balance. If you could post a link to a higher resolution image, that would be interesting.
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