Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
07-02-2009, 09:24 AM   #1
Senior Member
DavidWasch's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Connecticut, USA
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 163
Limited Useful Life for DA Lenses?

I have just purchased a new K20D, and am awaiting delivery. When I was considering which lenses to purchase, I was tempted by some of the premium DA lenses but decided to hold off because

1- Being a modestly funded novice, I didn't want to overspend on something I might not benefit from for a while

2- By the time I refine my interest, develop the skills, and save the funds, there may be a full-format Pentax that would render the DA lens obsolete.

Does anyone here have concerns about the useful life of their DA lenses? How long might it be before a full-format Pentax body renders them obsolete?

Thanks ahead of time for your thoughts. When I make the jump to premium lenses, I want to be confident that I can use them for a long time.

-David

07-02-2009, 09:50 AM   #2
Pentaxian
Marc Sabatella's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Denver, CO
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 10,686
Why would a full format camera render an APS-C lens obsolete? Are they obsolete for Canon or Nikon? No, the vast majority of people still use APS-C cameras even though FF is available - and those using FF can still use the APS-C lenses in "cropped" mode. The APS-C lenses will become obsolete only when *you* choose to stop using them - the mere *availability* of an FF alternative (something Pentax has said over and over again they aren't really planning on doing, BTW) certainly won't force you to stop using your APS-C lenses.

For that matter, do the various medium format cameras make 35mm lenses obsolete?
07-02-2009, 09:53 AM   #3
Pentaxian
Moderator Emeritus




Join Date: May 2007
Location: Edmonton Alberta, Canada
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 10,648
Exactly what Marc just said. You will always be able to use DA lenses.
07-02-2009, 10:13 AM   #4
Veteran Member




Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: North Wales, UK
Posts: 645
Whilst you'll be able to use the DA lenses you would find that some of them (the 21mm springs to mind) would result in very strong vignetting requiring some cropping or quite a lot of PP.

I'm in a similar position having bought the K20D last week, looks a very nice upgrade from my GX10....I'm considering buying some of the used "A" series prime lenses around on Ebay/photography shops, might be worth thinking about especially if you are on a budget

simon

07-02-2009, 10:34 AM   #5
Pentaxian
Just1MoreDave's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Aurora, CO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 4,814
If you look at the competition with an FF option, it's still only a few percent of their total sales. So there are plenty of people who would buy your APS-C lenses. A lot of those lenses are very well built and will retain their value.

Also, the much larger competition has taken a long time to fill out each lens line, and meanwhile, existing lenses will have to cover the gaps. It has taken Pentax about three or four years to get a pretty good lineup of APS-C lenses. A few months ago, the Pentax USA president said even if they launched an FF camera tomorrow, they really have no lenses for it. They have let many FA lenses die off and I don't think they intend to simply relaunch the FA line for an instant lens catalog. (It is somewhat concerning that Pentax is not upgrading the FA Limited lens chips to allow for automatic CA reduction with the K-7 camera.)

My guess is that you could expect to wait another five years before Pentax has a camera and a lens catalog in place as comprehensive as they do now for APS-C, and that's when APS-C lenses will start to lose value. They won't become instantly worthless, because Pentax will probably still sell APS-C cameras and they'll probably work with the FF cameras and automatically crop.
07-02-2009, 10:36 AM   #6
Veteran Member




Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 944
personally so far I am only buying FA lenses ... that is what I started with and I am keeping to it.

the problem with Pentax is deeper then FF or not.
Pentax do not have an upgrade body ... the K-7 is great but its a mid range camera.

so lets say you will get in too photography as a professional, and need the gear and service available to you ... you will find that Pentax is not giving that to you.

most likely you will have to get another system and that's the real problem that Pentax have .

I am very happy with Pentax at the moment, i can see why I fashion photography students at FIT for example will not get in to the Pentax world.

but as an hobby camera Pentax have a lot of advantage on the competition
07-02-2009, 10:39 AM   #7
Senior Member
DavidWasch's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Connecticut, USA
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 163
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
Why would a full format camera render an APS-C lens obsolete? Are they obsolete for Canon or Nikon? No, the vast majority of people still use APS-C cameras even though FF is available - and those using FF can still use the APS-C lenses in "cropped" mode. The APS-C lenses will become obsolete only when *you* choose to stop using them - the mere *availability* of an FF alternative (something Pentax has said over and over again they aren't really planning on doing, BTW) certainly won't force you to stop using your APS-C lenses.

For that matter, do the various medium format cameras make 35mm lenses obsolete?
Thank you for the perspective. I suppose a good lens is a good lens-- perhaps I have been too swept up in the marketing of planned obsolescense.

Not sure about your analogy of Full-Format to Medium-Format-- if I purchase a FF lens it will work with my K20D body now PLUS be able to work with future FF bodies. All other things being equal, the utility of the lens will just be higher than an APS-C lens (though it may be heavier!).

Hopefully, Pentax will be able to improve the quality of images through more sensitive, lower-noise chips, rather than larger chip sizes (and larger lenses).
07-02-2009, 10:42 AM   #8
Senior Member
DavidWasch's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Connecticut, USA
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 163
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by simonkit Quote
Whilst you'll be able to use the DA lenses you would find that some of them (the 21mm springs to mind) would result in very strong vignetting requiring some cropping or quite a lot of PP.

I'm in a similar position having bought the K20D last week, looks a very nice upgrade from my GX10....I'm considering buying some of the used "A" series prime lenses around on Ebay/photography shops, might be worth thinking about especially if you are on a budget

simon
Thanks for the tip on the A lenses. One of the things that brought me to Pentax was the ability to shop around for older, high-quality (and inexpensive) glass.

-David

07-02-2009, 11:14 AM   #9
Inactive Account




Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Vilcabamba, Loja
Posts: 216
Luddites

QuoteOriginally posted by DavidWasch Quote
2- By the time I refine my interest, develop the skills, and save the funds, there may be a full-format Pentax that would render the DA lens obsolete,
non-DA lens are obsolete today. They're missing features and were designed years ago for film. If you have a digital camera, why on earth do you think that a film lens can ever possibly be a better solution? It makes no sense.

Speed: Unnecessary
Size: Too big
Price: They're more expensive. Why do you want to waste money on old technology?
In-camera Corrections: Not supported on non-DA lenses

FF: Ya, I want a bigger camera, and bigger long lenses - not! I wouldn't bet a single penny on a Pentax FF. It's just a delusional desire by those who for some absurd reason think their old 70's lenses are going to work wonderfully on a digital camera. They're dreaming.

So, do you want to buy slow-AF, over-priced, over-sized, technically-crippled lenses that are obsolete today, that MAYBE one day, if you're very lucky, work marginally well on some future, expensive vapourware camera vs. the latest, cheaper lenses, optimized for your current digital camera? If there ever is a K-mount FilmFrame camera, there will be a whole new range of ultra-expensive lenses to properly match that camera's sensor. Old film lenses will just not 'cut' it. The in-camera processing of such a future, speculative camera will compensate for any vignetting in a DA lens automatically, if necessary.

Do you want the best solution for today, or for yesterday? Get a DA.
07-02-2009, 11:43 AM   #10
Veteran Member




Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Indiana
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 818
My old lenses, from the Super Takumar, A and FA series', work wonderfully on my K10D, and I imagine the same would be true for a full frame digital body as well. They may not have SDM AF and full auto exposure options(in the case of the Super Takumar), but they perform amazingly well on my digital body. I guarantee that my FA* and A* 85mms, and my A* 200mm Macro perform much better than the current equivalent offerings from Pentax, because there are no equivalent offerings. If Pentax did offer lenses with comparable specs, the lenses i listed would still be optically great.

In fact, my only DA lens, the DA* 16-50mm, is probably my least impressive lens as far as performance is concerned. It's a great lens but just doesn't compare to all of my obsolete film lenses. Even being optimized for digital it shows more purple fringing than any of my other lenses.
07-02-2009, 11:43 AM   #11
Pentaxian




Join Date: May 2007
Location: WW community of Pentax users
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,128
QuoteOriginally posted by Mr. The Guy Quote
non-DA lens are obsolete today...
Ever tried any?
07-02-2009, 11:43 AM   #12
Veteran Member
gokenin's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: lowell,ma
Posts: 1,892
QuoteOriginally posted by Mr. The Guy Quote
non-DA lens are obsolete today.They're missing features and were designed years ago for film. If you have a digital camera, why on earth do you think that a film lens can ever possibly be a better solution? It makes no sense.

Speed: Unnecessary
Size: Too big
Price: They're more expensive. Why do you want to waste money on old technology?
In-camera Corrections: Not supported on non-DA lenses

FF: Ya, I want a bigger camera, and bigger long lenses - not! I wouldn't bet a single penny on a Pentax FF. It's just a delusional desire by those who for some absurd reason think their old 70's lenses are going to work wonderfully on a digital camera. They're dreaming.
So, do you want to buy slow-AF, over-priced, over-sized, technically-crippled lenses that are obsolete today, that MAYBE one day, if you're very lucky, work marginally well on some future, expensive vapourware camera vs. the latest, cheaper lenses, optimized for your current digital camera? If there ever is a K-mount FilmFrame camera, there will be a whole new range of ultra-expensive lenses to properly match that camera's sensor. Old film lenses will just not 'cut' it. The in-camera processing of such a future, speculative camera will compensate for any vignetting in a DA lens automatically, if necessary.

Do you want the best solution for today, or for yesterday? Get a DA.
OK so let me get this right you are saying that the FA limited and all the FA* lens are crap and the pictures they produce are not worth even owning them? You are also saying the all the Takumar, K, A,M ,F and FA lens are all inferior to the current lineup of DA lens? have you looked at the pictures these lens produce?
07-02-2009, 12:01 PM   #13
Veteran Member




Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 944
QuoteOriginally posted by gokenin Quote
OK so let me get this right you are saying that the FA limited and all the FA* lens are crap and the pictures they produce are not worth even owning them? You are also saying the all the Takumar, K, A,M ,F and FA lens are all inferior to the current lineup of DA lens? have you looked at the pictures these lens produce?
obviously not. every time the FF topic comes up there will be the guy that say "stop crying and change brands "

one of the reason this forum is here is to communicate with Pentax people and tell them what we want.

both Nikon and Canon have about 150 lenses in production today a lot of them form the 80's and 90's .
and good quality glass that worked then works great on the FF bodies.

now size.. size is very important to me ... all of my FA glass : 31mm, 24mm, 20mm, 50mm, and soon 77mm all VERY VERY small lenses
I am caring this all kit in one tiny bag pack.
the 31mm is my "biggest" lens and as you know the 31mm is not big

Pentax always made small glass,

BTW Pentax only have 28 lenses in production today ... and the used market as we all know is getting more and more expensive and rare .

so while I am at it please Pentax make more lenses , and don't forget about your film consumers
07-02-2009, 12:04 PM   #14
Veteran Member
wlachan's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Canada
Photos: Albums
Posts: 2,626
QuoteOriginally posted by DavidWasch Quote
I have just purchased a new K20D, and am awaiting delivery. When I was considering which lenses to purchase, I was tempted by some of the premium DA lenses but decided to hold off because

1- Being a modestly funded novice, I didn't want to overspend on something I might not benefit from for a while

2- By the time I refine my interest, develop the skills, and save the funds, there may be a full-format Pentax that would render the DA lens obsolete.

Does anyone here have concerns about the useful life of their DA lenses? How long might it be before a full-format Pentax body renders them obsolete?

Thanks ahead of time for your thoughts. When I make the jump to premium lenses, I want to be confident that I can use them for a long time.

-David
Nobody knows I guess, not even Pentax I believe. I only know that when the tide turns, the market often changes fast, much faster than most people expected. Pentax was thrown off balance by Minolta 7000 when they were still investing heavily on the A series, and Pentax have never quite recovered since. Then by Canon DSLR when Pentax was still pushing on the MZ/ZX series. Since the early 80's, Pentax don't seem to get a grip on the market trend. Now I am not suggesting APS-C will disappear in the future, but it being replaced by FF totally is not entirely impossible, just nobody knows when or ever.
07-02-2009, 12:08 PM   #15
Veteran Member




Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Singapore
Posts: 384
My thoughts are:

Buy equipment and put them to good use

You already bought the K20D, why is FF bothering you?

IMHO, you will benefit more investing your time thinking about how best you can put the K20D ( a APS-C camera) to good use :ugh:

You are a novice. I am sure the K20D can serve your needs for years to come. If you choose not to invest in premium (good) DA lenses, you are just depriving yourself the chance to enjoy this hobby to it's fullest. You may not bother, but poor poor K20D
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
da, full-format, k-mount, lenses, life, pentax, pentax lens, premium, slr lens, time
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FA Limited lens series won the 2010 Good Design Long Life Design Award Patriot Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 26 11-29-2010 06:16 AM
Limited and * lenses domfijac Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 7 12-14-2009 10:08 AM
k-m and limited lenses Davidex Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 5 01-01-2009 12:17 PM
USM lenses and battery life fishy Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 0 07-22-2008 11:01 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:29 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top