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07-17-2009, 06:37 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by axl Quote
I did reread it 2x and I'm still skeptical.
Pentax never had 35 faster than f2 so they'd have to do new design, plus it's not about costs but about pricing strategy. It wouldn't make a sesnse for the to have sub 300 good(ish) fast 35 if they are trying to market 31 and 35 ltds for the prices they are...

This makes sense - and I also think that they still have the DA* 30 in the pipeline.

Also, Nikon does not have anything else for DX that will AF on the D40/D60/D5000/D3000 bodies - their older FX 35 f/2 does not have in-lens motor, so AF will not work on the lower-end bodies. The 35 1.8G was made in part so the lower-end shooters could get hooked on fast primes. (brilliant move on Nikon's part.)

I got my 35 1.8 on pre-order at a local store the day after I read the announcement on dpreview, and it sells out within hours whenever/wherever it appears still.

Build quality is not as high as the FA 35 f/2, but sharpness is comparable:


f/2.2



f/2.2 crop


f/1.8, grasping for lens (like every other Nikonian now)


07-17-2009, 07:23 AM   #17
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The first two are 'jump off the screen' sharp. If I wasn't a Pentaxian, I'd be a Nikonian...
07-17-2009, 07:41 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Buddha Jones Quote
The first two are 'jump off the screen' sharp. If I wasn't a Pentaxian, I'd be a Nikonian...
No sharper than the FA 35 f/2 I used to own, and the FA shows a bit less CA. But
Gus is right, for $199 new, the Nikon 35 1.8 is a wonderful lens, and it would be great to have a new DA 35 f/1.8 for under $250.


these are from the FA 35 f/2, just as sharp if not sharper:

f/2.2 crop:


f/2.2


f/2.5, ISO 500, 1/15s


Crop:



Note: at 1/15s, Pentax in-body SR made that handheld shot possible!
07-17-2009, 08:31 AM   #19
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I agree that Pentax would have a huge hit with a lens similar to Nikon's. I have a hard time believing that they could take the FA35/2, add WR and QSF and a new chip with the correction data used by the K-7, not compromise IQ and sell it for less than the old $300 US price. In other words, some part of that equation must be changed. What are you willing to give up?

07-17-2009, 09:39 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Just1MoreDave Quote
I agree that Pentax would have a huge hit with a lens similar to Nikon's. I have a hard time believing that they could take the FA35/2, add WR and QSF and a new chip with the correction data used by the K-7, not compromise IQ and sell it for less than the old $300 US price. In other words, some part of that equation must be changed. What are you willing to give up?

FA vs. DA - smaller, thinner elements, smaller/lighter design in general to get the
same IQ projected on a smaller plane.

That's the theory, anyway. I think they could add WS and sell it for $250 (vs.
Nikon's $199.)

Wouldn't make a huge profit per lens, but judging by the fact that the Nikon lens
hasn't been able to stay in stock anywhere more than a few hours since it was
introduced, it could make up for that in volume.

But I think Pentax already cast their dye with the DA 35ltd macro and maybe the
DA* 30. They're done in that FL for a while, probably, unless this new Nikon
changes their view of the market.

Now, here's some porn:






.
07-17-2009, 09:46 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
FA vs. DA - smaller, thinner elements, smaller/lighter design in general to get the
same IQ projected on a smaller plane.

That's the theory, anyway. I think they could add WS and sell it for $250 (vs.
Nikon's $199.)

Wouldn't make a huge profit per lens, but judging by the fact that the Nikon lens
hasn't been able to stay in stock anywhere more than a few hours since it was
introduced, it could make up for that in volume.

But I think Pentax already cast their dye with the DA 35ltd macro and maybe the
DA* 30. They're done in that FL for a while, probably, unless this new Nikon
changes their view of the market.

.
It's worth noting that several of the reviews I read before buying the FA 35mm f2 (just a year ago, on Amazon, for $299!!!!) ranked it among the sharpest lenses they had ever tested. And it is ridiculously sharp and contrasty. Images frequently look almost like they had a polarizer installed on it. And we're only talking 1/3 stop between f2 and f1.8, right? Snoop through images on pixel-peeper.com and you'll see what I mean about the lens's sharpness and rendering.

I picked up the DA 35mm f2.8 Macro LTD, though, to carry around. It's still a very, very sharp lens, mind you, but the FA clearly outshines it. But it clearly outshines nearly every other lens I own, and in an absolute sense, I would say it does. I use the DA more, though, because of its close-focus capability. If I'm heading out of the house with one lens, it's the DA; if I just need 35mm for an image, I use the FA.
07-17-2009, 10:40 AM   #22
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That sucks that the FA 35 f/2 is discontinued (or available but $500 now!)

Loved that lens, probably didn't use it enough before I jumped ship.

Up until this week, my 'main' lens was the Sigma 30mm f/1.4 which sells for ~$400. It's an absolutely amazing amazing amazing lens! (Can I say "amazing" again?) I sorta replaced it with the Canon 24-70L just because I wanted the convienence of a zoom vs. two bodies (other body had the 85mm f/1.8 on it....) I'm sure I'll still use the two primes, but now that my son is running around, it's hard enough chasing him with one camera

Pentaxians - If you can swing it, look at the Sigma 30mm f/1.4!
07-17-2009, 10:53 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
FA vs. DA - smaller, thinner elements, smaller/lighter design in general to get the
same IQ projected on a smaller plane.

That's the theory, anyway. I think they could add WS and sell it for $250 (vs.
Nikon's $199.)

Wouldn't make a huge profit per lens, but judging by the fact that the Nikon lens
hasn't been able to stay in stock anywhere more than a few hours since it was
introduced, it could make up for that in volume.

But I think Pentax already cast their dye with the DA 35ltd macro and maybe the
DA* 30. They're done in that FL for a while, probably, unless this new Nikon
changes their view of the market.

Now, here's some porn:






.
would the elements be that much smaller? Yes DA needs to cover smaller image circle but we are talking 1.8 vs 2.
But I'm just guessing here.
It would be nice if your theory on DA*30 would come true but I'm afraid it would be too close to 31ltd for them.
But now after discontinuing of FA35 there is a room for replacement. My guess is DA35/1.7 or 1.8. Probably with WR and perhaps with SDM (no shaft though)and APSC image circle. Of course metal mount, SP coating would be nice and I'd guess plastic body (like FA35). Price? my guess 400-450.
But that's just what I think...
BR

07-17-2009, 11:29 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by egordon99 Quote
Up until this week, my 'main' lens was the Sigma 30mm f/1.4 which sells for ~$400. It's an absolutely amazing amazing amazing lens! (Can I say "amazing" again?) I sorta replaced it with the Canon 24-70L just because I wanted the convienence of a zoom vs. two bodies (other body had the 85mm f/1.8 on it....) I'm sure I'll still use the two primes, but now that my son is running around, it's hard enough chasing him with one camera

Pentaxians - If you can swing it, look at the Sigma 30mm f/1.4!
I actually have looked at that lens several times. I take it from the multiplicity of amazement that you really, really, really like the lens <g>. Anything to say about it other than that it's amazing? I don't *dislike* Sigma lenses, but I'd have to say every one I've owned was adequate, but not up to the Pentax glass I replaced it with (eventually). Is the 30mm 1.4 a replacement for the 31mm f1.8, or is it just a good stepping stone to the Pentax?

Thanks!
07-17-2009, 11:30 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by axl Quote
But I'm just guessing here...
Probably everyone's guessing. I know I am not an expert on optics, manufacturing or selling lenses (except on eBay). So your guess is going to be as good as anyone's. The only question we can answer is, what would I buy?

I think a lot of people would like a decent $200US prime without really caring about special coatings, SDM, 9 aperture blades, how close it is to the FA31 or WS. They'll buy it right away and let the experts argue for years about how the FA35 is sharper in the corners. They'll probably take good photos with it too.
07-17-2009, 12:29 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Just1MoreDave Quote
Probably everyone's guessing. I know I am not an expert on optics, manufacturing or selling lenses (except on eBay). So your guess is going to be as good as anyone's. The only question we can answer is, what would I buy?

I think a lot of people would like a decent $200US prime without really caring about special coatings, SDM, 9 aperture blades, how close it is to the FA31 or WS. They'll buy it right away and let the experts argue for years about how the FA35 is sharper in the corners. They'll probably take good photos with it too.
I know lot of people would love it.
I'm just not sure if Pentax big shots would like it
But I see what you mean.
Hell I would love cheap 35 of decent speed an IQ, and I already have 31 and 40.
07-17-2009, 01:06 PM   #27
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I'm another one that is looking at the Sigma 31mm f/1.4. If Pentax doesn't come up with something in, say, the next six months, then I'm going to pull the trigger. And once I do that, I won't be in the market for whatever Pentax may or may not introduce in this category afterward. There is no question in my mind that if Nikon can do it for $199, then Pentax could do it for $299. I'd even accept $399 if the lens is better than the Sigma - specifically with the sharpness of the old FA 35mm f/2.0 (although I'd love f/1.8 or f/1.4). And, as an aside, I agree with Buddha: If I weren't a Pentaxian, I'd probably be a Nikonian right now. A D90 and a half-dozen lenses. Wake up, Pentax... your core market is speaking!
07-17-2009, 02:32 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Biro Quote
...There is no question in my mind that if Nikon can do it for $199, then Pentax could do it for $299...
Already done, you just had to buy one 6 months ago.

These aren't perfect but it's not the lens's fault.

07-17-2009, 04:51 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by axl Quote
would the elements be that much smaller? Yes DA needs to cover smaller image circle but we are talking 1.8 vs 2.
But I'm just guessing here.

BR

I think we're talking about different things - the FA 35 (and other FA lenses) were
designed for film cameras, and thus need to (or should) project sharp corners on
a full-frame equiv. The DA lenses only need sharp corners on an area 60%
smaller (an APS-C sensor,) so theoretically the elements can be smaller. This is
part of the reason the DA limiteds are smaller than the FA limiteds, (although I think
all of the DA limiteds can be used on FF, just with compromised corner performance.)

Nikon was able to design a DA-only (DX) fast 35mm lens and sell it for $199 msrp
because they utilized this advantage. The lens is fairly small, very light... and
$199. This is one of the benefits the APS-C format was supposed to bring us.


35 1.8G wide-open, and f/2.2:



Crop of shot above right:



.

Last edited by jsherman999; 07-17-2009 at 05:04 PM.
07-17-2009, 05:10 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
Nikon was able to design a DA-only (DX) fast 35mm lens and sell it for $199 msrp
because they utilized this advantage. The lens is fairly small, very light... and
$199. This is one of the benefits the APS-C format was supposed to bring us.

.
I can recall years ago when the DA 16-45 1st came out thinking the exact thing above.... Wow, this means they should be able to make smaller lenses with at least reasonable speed (say a 40 f1.4, 28 1.8)
Yet, somehow market forces have not allowed this. It seems that rather than optimizing for speed/size that Pentax went specifically for size (small). Now it seems that the competitor has painted them into a corner by coming out with a slingshot of a lens. It appears that If Pentax/Hoya decides to come out with an inexpensive small/fast DA normal - they run the risk of alienating their whole DA line-up
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