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07-27-2009, 08:20 AM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by GLXLR Quote
You should take this into SERIOUS consideration. The 35mm range on APS-C sensored bodies is my absolute FAVORITE range (28mm or 40mm might be better or worse)

PENTAX-DA SMC 40mm F2.8 LIMITED Mint - eBay (item 140335730935 end time Aug-02-09 04:16:59 PDT)

Samsung GX Pentax DSLR D-XENOGON F/2 35mm Lens - eBay (item 130315284934 end time Jul-26-09 21:36:50 PDT)

Hope this helps!

*Just FYI, the Samsung is the exact same copy of the FA-35mm f/2. (just from looking at it I don't think I need to tell you ) I think all they did was remove the sticker inside and change it into Samsung.
So this samsung will work just the same then?!! I found this one on Ebay:
Samsung GX20 GX10 Pentax DSLR D-XENOGON F/2 35mm Lens - eBay (item 130320891682 end time Aug-24-09 05:42:55 PDT)
It would ship from Korea but I wonder if it would be worth it!!
I am in sooooooooooooo much trouble just looking at this!!!! I am going to have to do some fundraising to get this one in addition to the sigma 17-70 that I just ordered!!! Does the spending EVER stop?!!!!!

07-27-2009, 08:31 AM   #47
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I wouldn't do it. Since you have the 50mm and now the 17-70mm, I would seriously consider spending the $$$ on tha 2nd body.

(Hint: There's a K100DS in the Marketplace).

17-70 would pretty much be able to cover everything (ceremony, ring/flower shots, formals, reception) while the 50 could take care of any low light and shallow DOF detail shots. Slap a lens on each body and you are good to go...
07-27-2009, 08:58 AM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by maxwell1295 Quote
(Hint: There's a K100DS in the Marketplace).
Good advice. The K100DS is more than capable. If I ever shoot a wedding again (not volunteering, that's for sure), I'm going to carry my K100DS with 18-250mm and diffused onboard flash. I'll use my K20 with various primes wherever I can. I would also use the K20 with flash in wireless mode for formal photos if the natural light wasn't good.

Sandrine, maybe I missed it. I don't see which camera you have now.
07-27-2009, 08:59 AM   #49
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Good I am glad to hear that the 17-70 will cover everything!!! Thanks Maxwell.
I'd really like to upgrade to a K20d or possibly the K7, that way I can keep my k10d as s second body. I am actually leaning towards the K7 more lately but that is definitely going to take some time!!!!

07-27-2009, 09:00 AM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote

Sandrine, maybe I missed it. I don't see which camera you have now.
I have the K10D right now.
07-27-2009, 09:30 AM   #51
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In addition to finding new gear you should also find some new friends (haha - that sounded bad...)

What I mean is you should really look to get to know some other photographers. If I am reading this right you have never shot a wedding before but you now have several lined up that you will be charging for as a professional? I think its safe to say that most wedding photographers did at least a couple for free (as a second shooter) before taking on their own clients.

In addition to possibly being able to work with these other photographers you may also be able to borrow a piece of gear when required. And the extra gear need not be Pentax and it need not be high-end stuff. If you are comfortable with your Pentax gear it should only take about 10min to figure out a Canon Rebel XTi which is a totally appropriate body for a "second". Load that camera up with a 50mm lens and you can relax for a few months about buying more gear.

I am fortunate to be friends with at least 2 other Pentax shooters nearby who have quite a nice load of gear and we don't mind lending to each other. One of those Pentaxians will (hopefully) be joining me at a wedding soon as a second shooter because he has expressed some interest in giving it a try.

This online stuff is OK but having a mentor to exchange ideas with is invaluable.

edit
oh - my appologies - I just re-read post number 6 where you said you were brining along a second photog who had experience. Good for you.

Last edited by cwood; 07-27-2009 at 09:42 AM.
07-27-2009, 09:54 AM   #52
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I found a mentor a few weeks back and she is taking me with her on her next wedding, and that is just 5 days before my own gig!! So that is all the practice I am going to get!!! I am trying to stalk photographers in my area to see if they would be willing to take me along with them before then, but no luck there!!! At least I will have the one right before my very first!!
Pretty scary stuff!
07-27-2009, 09:55 AM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by axl Quote
sorry to say so, but for better part I wasn't too impressed by those shots.
But, everybody has different tastes...

BR
Peter
Agreed about the "different tastes". This is why I rarely share any wedding photos except with specific people who's opinion truly matters to me. I shoot with certain gear in a specific way and a specific style. As long as I can continue to produce images of a similar standard to what is already in my portfolio then I assume the B&G are getting what they have paid for. And making them happy is what this is all about anyway right?

Once, when I could not take a job, I recommended another photographer to the couple who I consider to be WAY better than me. The B&G did not end up using that person because they did not like his work... Go Figure??? But believe me if I showed examples of his work and my work on these boards I have no doubt MOST of you would prefer his stuff. As you say though "Everybody has different tastes"

07-27-2009, 09:57 AM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by creoleart Quote
I have the K10D right now.
It's commonly believed that the K100DS has better high ISO performance than the K10. You could pick up a used K100DS and sell it for whatever it cost when you're ready to upgrade to a K20 or K7 (or K30, or K8 ).
07-27-2009, 10:49 AM   #55
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Coffee brought up a key point about black and white. I’ll address that in a second.
Another mentioned the K100Ds vs getting the 35mm f2. Get the camera. I didn’t look it up but my guess it’s cheaper than the 35mm f2. The K100Ds is also a better high ISO camera than the K10D. Not much but a little better. So it would be a great backup unit. If you get it, go out and take a few hundred shots with only it. The controls are a little different and you need to be comfortable switching back and forth.

But the second body will allow you to have the 17-70mm on the K10D and then put the FA50mm on the K100Ds. Then you can swap out the 70-300mm for some longer candid style shots. This avoids changing lenses, dust specs and fumbling around when things are busy. It makes life easier.

The point is that you never think about the gear. It becomes an extension of the creative process and your vision. The moment you are in the church thinking “now how do you change the ISO?” you are in trouble. This is going to sound dumb, but you need to be one with the camera. Know it as well as you know your best friend. When you can anticipate what it is capable of in any situation, then you will get the shots you have in your head.
I read these posts every day about the newest and next camera. Like everyone, I would like certain upgrades as well but I think too many times we don’t even know how to use the stuff we have, to it’s full ability. I wanted the K-7 like everyone else, then realized the K20D takes a smokin’ picture if I use it right. I’ve only had it a year. So I bought a better lens instead and the K20D is even better.

Before I forget. There are key shots and the most important being the first kiss. Remember to tell the B&G to take their time and enjoy the moment. I have seen couples who are excited or nervous give each other a peck on the lips that 1/4000th 6 Fps couldn’t capture. Tell them to kiss twice, that way you have a second chance. When that moment comes. Be ready, Lock the focus ahead of time and hold your position on them. You might have to hold the camera in place for 3-4 minutes but you are ready. Getting them down the aisle is another tough shot. They are coming straight at you and the camera can have some challenges tracking a moving object straight ahead. A good way to get this shot is focus on a crack on the floor. Stop the lens down to at least f4 and f5.6 to f8 would even be better. 1/200th or more shutter speed is needed to freeze the movement. So focus on a crack on the floor and switch the focus to manual. Watch them but keep an eye on the crack (focus point). When they are almost there fire a shot. When they hit the crack fire again and then just after. You’ll get one in sharp focus. If the light won’t allow these settings as a minimum, then use the flash. Same thing for the bride walking up the aisle. Make sure you get one of her standing with her dad at the entrance and at least one of them walking up. The “hand off” is important as well. You will get a whole range of emotion (he’s happy as hell because it’s the last daughter and she’s finally moving out!” to “Daddy’s little girl and tears”.

Some shooters go to the rehearsal, others don’t. I’ve been to one in the last 4 years. And only because it was paid for and they had a family BBQ where they wanted me. In your case you have to go. Take your camera and do some practice shooting at the venue to be familiar with the light and layout. Talk to the minister and find out where you can position yourself. If there is a balcony, find out if you can use it and if they will make sure it’s unlocked during the ceremony.

Look for unique shots in the church. You can only take so many of the B&G. If it’s a church wedding they are usually 30 minutes to as long as 90 minutes. Civil services can be really fast and I’ve done ones that were 10 minutes. That’s pressure! Look for little kids who are cute, members of the family who cry and anything that would be interesting to the B&G. They are so wrapped up in what’s happening, that they miss almost everything around them. Another good shot is when they sign the guest book, look around at what everyone else is doing. You’ll probably see 6 people in the front row with P&S cameras trying to get a shot. Take theirs after you get a good shot of the couple signing.

A guy I used to shoot for on freelance news assignments in Halifax taught me an important lesson once. He said “ There was a photographer in Toronto who was covering a jumper on the side of a building in the busy financial district. There was a huge crowd below. There were camera crews and still photographers everywhere. Most of them shot images of the guy high up on the building and what happened. One lone photographer shot something else and won an award for his coverage.” Guess what he shot? The people watching below and the looks on their faces. Now that’s a horrible story but the point is the same. If you catch Mom crying, you have a winner. With all that, focus on the B&G first and foremost. Those are extras if you can get them. But don’t concern yourself about it and get good shots of the couple first always.

Whatever the B&G have told you they want, do more. If they say you just have to cover the service and a few family shots, then do some more creative personal ones with them and go to the reception as well. If you want to be successful in this you under promise and over deliver. I landed a huge wedding deal for next July, yesterday. The guy is coming from Wisconsin to get married here and part of that is because I did his friends wedding last month and they were really happy with the work. Word of mouth is king in this business and if you get known for being creative as well as someone who makes people comfortable in front of the camera and finally someone who works hard, you’ll never have to convince your husband that the new lens you “need” is not too expensive.

For creative person shots, Take some ideas off the web and have a little booklet of them written down. Use that check list to remind you of the shots you want to try and get. You won’t have much time to refer to the list but a few reminders can be handy. I know my first weddings on my own, I had all these great ideas and forgot every one of them as soon as I started shooting.

So back to Coffee’s point about black and white. Learn the histogram. I have my cameras set up with no preview but when I hit the play button, the image comes up with the histogram there. The LCD lies like a rotten rug. Shots I thought I missed the exposure on when I checked the LCD, look just fine on the computer or print. The histogram will tell you if you got a good exposure. Black Tux and White Wedding dress is really tough. I think we all still wrestle with that one. Worry about the dress and not the tux. You’ll loose detail but a black suit looks better than a blown out dress. It all depends on the light. Sometimes I’ll meter off the dress and sometimes I’ll meter off the skin. Shoot RAW!!! It’s easier to adjust white balance later and to recover some areas of a shot. Jpegs just break down too much if a number of edits are needed.

I would suggest you take 2 friends out in the back yard and get one to wear white and the other to wear black. Take your flash even if it’s bright sunlight. Shoot them with the sun behind them and the sun facing them. Practice for an hour or so. This exercise will make a huge difference when you have to make choices out in the field. Go review your shots and if you can do it a second time, take what you learned and do it again.

Last edited by Peter Zack; 07-27-2009 at 11:00 AM.
07-27-2009, 12:05 PM   #56
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Thank you Peter!! I am going to take your notes and turn it into a little printed booklet!!! Seriously, great tips!!! It has everything and more!!
I do love to take pictures of details, or like you said catching the mom crying, that would be priceless!! I have to remember to focus on the bride and gromm though first, like you said!
Your example of the jumper was priceless!! What a great lesson!!
Wow!! I am amazed at what I am learning here!! I just hope that as I get better I can give back by helping others the way you guys do here!!!
07-27-2009, 02:43 PM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by kunik Quote
Agreed about the "different tastes". This is why I rarely share any wedding photos except with specific people who's opinion truly matters to me. I shoot with certain gear in a specific way and a specific style. As long as I can continue to produce images of a similar standard to what is already in my portfolio then I assume the B&G are getting what they have paid for. And making them happy is what this is all about anyway right?

Once, when I could not take a job, I recommended another photographer to the couple who I consider to be WAY better than me. The B&G did not end up using that person because they did not like his work... Go Figure??? But believe me if I showed examples of his work and my work on these boards I have no doubt MOST of you would prefer his stuff. As you say though "Everybody has different tastes"
I know what you're saying...
I didn't mean to be disrecpetfull or anything, all I was saying that those shots were not to my taste. But then probably many wouldn't like my stuff. That's the way it goes....
07-27-2009, 06:47 PM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by axl Quote
I know what you're saying...
I didn't mean to be disrecpetfull or anything, all I was saying that those shots were not to my taste. But then probably many wouldn't like my stuff. That's the way it goes....
Well, technically speaking, I agree with you that those images were a step below perfection. But since the photog has not asked for our opinion and his clients were probably ecstatic with the results its hard to really fault the guy. He's out there doin' his thing and making people happy and what more could we really ask for eh?

I have been blown away by VERY FEW wedding photogs (and NO I don't think i'm better than anyone else). The problem can be seen in some of Benjiman's recent posts. He described how he will take 1000's of images to get a dozen or so keepers. Keep in mind:
1. he is better than most of us
2. he is working in a controlled environment with no sun, cloud or rain to contend with
3. he is working with professional models who know how to look good for the camera
4. he only needs to produce a dozen perfect images in a full day of shooting (not the 100-200 a bride and groom will request from 2-4 hours of shooting).
5. each of his keepers may be subject to several hours of post processing, which is not possible with the volume of images required for weddings.

Like I said - I've seen a couple of photogs that can produce several hundred exceptional image (CONSISTENTLY IN ALL CONDITIONS) but for the most part there can be something found lacking from almost every wedding picture I've ever seen. Its just a fact of life.... Too much flash... too little flash... bride looks unhappy... bride looks "uncomfortable"... crop looks awkward (often due to someone being in the way).

A wedding is nothing more than a series of fleeting moments that will never be repeated. A wedding photog needs to capture those moments within the limits of his equipment, his own skill set and his environment. This invariably requires compromise at some stage. An exceptional photog will make those compromises invisible to all by the most discerning eye. This level of proficiency is something that I am happy to pursue with the knowledge that I will never actually get there
07-27-2009, 06:59 PM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by Peter Zack Quote
I would suggest you take 2 friends out in the back yard and get one to wear white and the other to wear black. Take your flash even if itís bright sunlight. Shoot them with the sun behind them and the sun facing them. Practice for an hour or so. This exercise will make a huge difference when you have to make choices out in the field. Go review your shots and if you can do it a second time, take what you learned and do it again.
And if you really want to be thorough, start shooting and have the friends start to argue until one wants a divorce. Think of it as marketing shots for the reality show.

And if you really *really* want to be thorough, take solo shots of each so they can use them on match.com after the divorce.

Not that I'm bitter or anything...
07-27-2009, 07:01 PM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by kunik Quote
A wedding is nothing more than a series of fleeting moments that will never be repeated.
Life is a series of fleeting moments that will never be repeated. So not just wedding photogs need to get their act together...
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