50mm 1.2...to sell or not to sell? That is the question.

**Digitalis** · 08-29-2009, 06:23 AM

you will have to pry my 50mm f/1.2 out of my cold dead hands....

In regards to those who scoff at it's sharpness; I have used alot of fast 50mm lenses. And there aren't many that are as versatile as the Pentax 50mm f/1.2 - wide open it has decent sharpness if you know how to sharpen your files correctly...at f/2.8 that is it's bokeh sweet spot where it's bokeh rendition is almost indistinguishable from the FA77 limited....when you stop it down further to f/4-f/8 it's resolution can easily match the Legendary FA31 Limited.

Keep it....as soon as you sell it, you will miss it.

k100d · 08-29-2009, 06:46 AM

Originally posted by Digitalis

In regards to those who scoff at it's sharpness; I have used alot of fast 50mm lenses. And there aren't many that are as versatile as the Pentax 50mm f/1.2 - wide open it has decent sharpness if you know how to sharpen your files correctly...at f/2.8 that is it's bokeh sweet spot where it's bokeh rendition is almost indistinguishable from the FA77 limited....when you stop it down further to f/4-f/8 it's resolution can easily match the Legendary FA31 Limited.

strictly in terms of MTF resolution, almost any lens is good from F4 to F8. check out photozone's resolution charts. the FA31's strength is in its bokeh and acceptableness wide open
Pentax SMC-FA 31mm f/1.8 AL Limited Review / Test Report
Pentax SMC-FA 50mm f/1.4 - Review / Lab Test Report
Pentax SMC-DA 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 AL - Review / Test Report

in terms of bokeh, check out what roentarre had to say
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/221374-post16.html
but also read this from ex pentax user Sean Carpenter, very interesting conclusion
the Normal Lens Shootout Photo Gallery by Sean Carpenter at pbase.com
really what they've both said it is nicer, but not that much nicer

i read a lot of rangefinder stuff, on the topic of fast 50s everybody says that their fast 50 is very versatile, kind of like how every brand says their kit lens is the best. personal preference.

stevebrot · 08-29-2009, 08:59 AM

Originally posted by k100d

...but also read this from ex pentax user Sean Carpenter, very interesting conclusion
the Normal Lens Shootout Photo Gallery by Sean Carpenter at pbase.com...

Sean's "shoot out" is one of the most interesting of its kind on the Web. Pity he did not do it as double elimination. Pity too that he moved to Nikon to get FF. I miss his input on this forum.

Steve

ivoire · 08-29-2009, 02:05 PM - **1 Like**

As much as i like the bokeh from the f1.2, a lens, no matter how good, is only worthwhile if you are using it.

8540tomg · 08-29-2009, 02:53 PM

Originally posted by ivoire

As much as i like the bokeh from the f1.2, a lens, no matter how good, is only worthwhile if you are using it.

I can see your point but I'm afraid I disagree with you on this one Ivoire. I would submit you are using that extra speed every time you look through the viewfinder to manually focus. It is just so much brighter. I don't have a f/1.2 lens but I do have a f/1.4. I seldom shoot at f/1.4 but always appreciate the ease of manually focusing such a fast lens. The shallow DOF and bokeh is just a bonus for me. It's nice to know it is there if I need or want it. Whether one can afford that extra speed is another question.

Tom G

**Digitalis** · 08-29-2009, 06:41 PM

Originally posted by k100d

strictly in terms of MTF resolution, almost any lens is good from F4 to F8. check out photozone's resolution charts. the FA31's strength is in its bokeh and acceptableness wide open

I agree up to a point. There are subtle differences between lenses you can't say the DA21 limited is capable of the same degree of resolution the FA 31 is capable of. You can't say the FA 50mm f/1.4 is as sharp as the DA55 f/1.4 don't get me wrong; both lenses are excellent, but one clearly has an edge over the other. At the end of the day the differences between a good lens and a great lens may be small but it's there.

Originally posted by k100d

i read a lot of rangefinder stuff, on the topic of fast 50s everybody says that their fast 50 is very versatile, kind of like how every brand says their kit lens is the best. personal preference.

I use a Hexanon 50mm f/1.2 on my Leica m3 - bite me.

If you hang around rangefinder forums then you will know how hotly debated the fine differences between lenses are. is a Zeiss M Biogon 28mm f/2.8 as good as the Leica Elmar-M f/2.8 ASPH- short answer: not really, the Leica is just less susceptible to coma. And the bokeh of the zeiss is worse than the Leica same thing goes for the flare tolerance..the Ziess handles distortion better though.

k100d · 08-29-2009, 07:55 PM

Originally posted by Digitalis

I agree up to a point. There are subtle differences between lenses you can't say the DA21 limited is capable of the same degree of resolution the FA 31 is capable of. You can't say the FA 50mm f/1.4 is as sharp as the DA55 f/1.4 don't get me wrong; both lenses are excellent, but one clearly has an edge over the other. At the end of the day the differences between a good lens and a great lens may be small but it's there.

back on topic, if you're talking about perceived sharpness (lack of ca, microcontrast, etc.) then sure maybe the A50 is great, but is it really better than the FA50 at f4 to f8?

Originally posted by Digitalis

I use a Hexanon 50mm f/1.2 on my Leica m3 - bite me.

you didn't at all comment on my statement about the versatility

... i'm not here to argue about RF lenses.

Last edited by k100d; 08-29-2009 at 08:00 PM.

SteveM · 08-29-2009, 09:37 PM

I can't comment on the 50/1.2...I have one but it showed up with the slightest bit of fungas....so I sent it in to the pros to have it cleaned. Unfortunatly....they have had it for 3 months

Anyways..back on topic.
I have almost sold a couple of lenses as I was not happy with how my pics were turning out. After a while I piced them up and tried again and I love them. Perhaps you'll grow to like the 50/1.2?

Barnster · 08-29-2009, 10:56 PM

Like you say,if your not using it,sell it to someone who will.You might be surprised on how much you get for it.They seem to be a rare find.But at the end of the day,it's all up to you.Just don't sell it and kick yourself later on down the track.

Pentaxor · 08-29-2009, 11:07 PM

Originally posted by smc

I can't comment on the 50/1.2...I have one but it showed up with the slightest bit of fungas....so I sent it in to the pros to have it cleaned. Unfortunatly....they have had it for 3 months

Anyways..back on topic.
I have almost sold a couple of lenses as I was not happy with how my pics were turning out. After a while I piced them up and tried again and I love them. Perhaps you'll grow to like the 50/1.2?

what? they still haven't finished cleaning it yet? that lens must be really hard to handle !

SteveM · 08-29-2009, 11:50 PM

It is fused...the outer ring and inner.....I mentioned that he could drill it and then open it but he said with the stuf he has he can put as much touque on it as he wants...but it will wreck it. They have put some sort of penetrating oil that won't damage the lens in it...it it soaking. He'll give it another month and will then give it back

**Digitalis** · 08-30-2009, 01:00 AM

Originally posted by k100d

back on topic, if you're talking about perceived sharpness (lack of ca, microcontrast, etc.) then sure maybe the A50 is great, but is it really better than the FA50 at f4 to f8?

when it comes to perceived sharpness you wouldn't see much of a difference.. there are differences in Bokeh rendering due to the number of aperture blades. I don't know of anyone who set out to buy f/1.2 lens when all they intend to do with it is stop it down to f/8 - however I did a test against the Pentax A 50mm f/1.7 - a decidedly average lens against my SMC-A 50mm f/1.2 and the f/1.2 was noticeably sharper in the corners at f/2 ~f/8

Originally posted by k100d

you didn't at all comment on my statement about the versatility

... i'm not here to argue about RF lenses.

the M-hexanon lenses are widely regarded as the lens line up that leicaphiles killed deader than hell for no other reason other than spite. Especially the 50mm f/1.2 lenses, they are VERY hard to find because they were a limited edition lens, and they are pretty decent lenses optically speaking (you should try to find the 60mm f/1.2 that is an even rarer beast)

RT1 · 08-31-2009, 07:09 PM

After all of the feedback here, I decided to make a point of putting the 50 on my cam for a couple days...and I simply just cannot justify getting rid of it. After taking some pictures with it today, I'm actually a little upset with myself for not using it more often. It produces some incredible images.

Sorry 18-250...your days are numbered.

thomascdk · 09-01-2009, 07:14 AM

Way to go!

K-9 · 09-01-2009, 08:17 AM

I really think the lens has a mystique that overshadows it's price and performance. I never shoot any lens larger than f2, and I have a lot of f1.4's. I could never justify the price of the 1.2. I sometimes think the notoriety of the lens makes you think you've got a sharper picture than you really have!

That link to Dimitrov's site indicates the normal A 1.2 is not that rare, and only the special chrome version that was sold with the LE LX 2000 is rare. He has the A 1.2 as being available several times per year. It's a lot more common than say the 135mm f1.8. I've probably seen no less than ten A 1.2's for sale on ebay in the past few months. That's more around than say an F 50mm 1.4.

08-29-2009, 06:46 AM	#17
k100d Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Toronto Posts: 3,911	Originally posted by Digitalis In regards to those who scoff at it's sharpness; I have used alot of fast 50mm lenses. And there aren't many that are as versatile as the Pentax 50mm f/1.2 - wide open it has decent sharpness if you know how to sharpen your files correctly...at f/2.8 that is it's bokeh sweet spot where it's bokeh rendition is almost indistinguishable from the FA77 limited....when you stop it down further to f/4-f/8 it's resolution can easily match the Legendary FA31 Limited. strictly in terms of MTF resolution, almost any lens is good from F4 to F8. check out photozone's resolution charts. the FA31's strength is in its bokeh and acceptableness wide open Pentax SMC-FA 31mm f/1.8 AL Limited Review / Test Report Pentax SMC-FA 50mm f/1.4 - Review / Lab Test Report Pentax SMC-DA 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 AL - Review / Test Report in terms of bokeh, check out what roentarre had to say https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/221374-post16.html but also read this from ex pentax user Sean Carpenter, very interesting conclusion the Normal Lens Shootout Photo Gallery by Sean Carpenter at pbase.com really what they've both said it is nicer, but not that much nicer i read a lot of rangefinder stuff, on the topic of fast 50s everybody says that their fast 50 is very versatile, kind of like how every brand says their kit lens is the best. personal preference. Last edited by k100d; 08-29-2009 at 07:23 AM.

08-29-2009, 02:53 PM	#20
8540tomg Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Waterloo, Ontario Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,461	Originally posted by ivoire As much as i like the bokeh from the f1.2, a lens, no matter how good, is only worthwhile if you are using it. I can see your point but I'm afraid I disagree with you on this one Ivoire. I would submit you are using that extra speed every time you look through the viewfinder to manually focus. It is just so much brighter. I don't have a f/1.2 lens but I do have a f/1.4. I seldom shoot at f/1.4 but always appreciate the ease of manually focusing such a fast lens. The shallow DOF and bokeh is just a bonus for me. It's nice to know it is there if I need or want it. Whether one can afford that extra speed is another question. Tom G Last edited by 8540tomg; 08-29-2009 at 06:53 PM. Reason: typo

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08-29-2009, 06:23 AM	#16
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	you will have to pry my 50mm f/1.2 out of my cold dead hands.... In regards to those who scoff at it's sharpness; I have used alot of fast 50mm lenses. And there aren't many that are as versatile as the Pentax 50mm f/1.2 - wide open it has decent sharpness if you know how to sharpen your files correctly...at f/2.8 that is it's bokeh sweet spot where it's bokeh rendition is almost indistinguishable from the FA77 limited....when you stop it down further to f/4-f/8 it's resolution can easily match the Legendary FA31 Limited. Keep it....as soon as you sell it, you will miss it.

08-29-2009, 08:59 AM	#18
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by k100d ...but also read this from ex pentax user Sean Carpenter, very interesting conclusion the Normal Lens Shootout Photo Gallery by Sean Carpenter at pbase.com... Sean's "shoot out" is one of the most interesting of its kind on the Web. Pity he did not do it as double elimination. Pity too that he moved to Nikon to get FF. I miss his input on this forum. Steve

08-29-2009, 02:05 PM - 1 Like	#19
ivoire Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,381	As much as i like the bokeh from the f1.2, a lens, no matter how good, is only worthwhile if you are using it.

08-29-2009, 06:41 PM	#21
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Originally posted by k100d strictly in terms of MTF resolution, almost any lens is good from F4 to F8. check out photozone's resolution charts. the FA31's strength is in its bokeh and acceptableness wide open I agree up to a point. There are subtle differences between lenses you can't say the DA21 limited is capable of the same degree of resolution the FA 31 is capable of. You can't say the FA 50mm f/1.4 is as sharp as the DA55 f/1.4 don't get me wrong; both lenses are excellent, but one clearly has an edge over the other. At the end of the day the differences between a good lens and a great lens may be small but it's there. Originally posted by k100d i read a lot of rangefinder stuff, on the topic of fast 50s everybody says that their fast 50 is very versatile, kind of like how every brand says their kit lens is the best. personal preference. I use a Hexanon 50mm f/1.2 on my Leica m3 - bite me. If you hang around rangefinder forums then you will know how hotly debated the fine differences between lenses are. is a Zeiss M Biogon 28mm f/2.8 as good as the Leica Elmar-M f/2.8 ASPH- short answer: not really, the Leica is just less susceptible to coma. And the bokeh of the zeiss is worse than the Leica same thing goes for the flare tolerance..the Ziess handles distortion better though.

08-29-2009, 07:55 PM	#22
k100d Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Toronto Posts: 3,911	Originally posted by Digitalis I agree up to a point. There are subtle differences between lenses you can't say the DA21 limited is capable of the same degree of resolution the FA 31 is capable of. You can't say the FA 50mm f/1.4 is as sharp as the DA55 f/1.4 don't get me wrong; both lenses are excellent, but one clearly has an edge over the other. At the end of the day the differences between a good lens and a great lens may be small but it's there. back on topic, if you're talking about perceived sharpness (lack of ca, microcontrast, etc.) then sure maybe the A50 is great, but is it really better than the FA50 at f4 to f8? Originally posted by Digitalis I use a Hexanon 50mm f/1.2 on my Leica m3 - bite me. you didn't at all comment on my statement about the versatility ... i'm not here to argue about RF lenses. Last edited by k100d; 08-29-2009 at 08:00 PM.

08-29-2009, 09:37 PM	#23
SteveM Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,294	I can't comment on the 50/1.2...I have one but it showed up with the slightest bit of fungas....so I sent it in to the pros to have it cleaned. Unfortunatly....they have had it for 3 months Anyways..back on topic. I have almost sold a couple of lenses as I was not happy with how my pics were turning out. After a while I piced them up and tried again and I love them. Perhaps you'll grow to like the 50/1.2?

08-29-2009, 10:56 PM	#24
Barnster Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Mid North Coast,Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,016	Like you say,if your not using it,sell it to someone who will.You might be surprised on how much you get for it.They seem to be a rare find.But at the end of the day,it's all up to you.Just don't sell it and kick yourself later on down the track.

08-29-2009, 11:07 PM	#25
Pentaxor Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,513	Originally posted by smc I can't comment on the 50/1.2...I have one but it showed up with the slightest bit of fungas....so I sent it in to the pros to have it cleaned. Unfortunatly....they have had it for 3 months Anyways..back on topic. I have almost sold a couple of lenses as I was not happy with how my pics were turning out. After a while I piced them up and tried again and I love them. Perhaps you'll grow to like the 50/1.2? what? they still haven't finished cleaning it yet? that lens must be really hard to handle !

08-29-2009, 11:50 PM	#26
SteveM Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,294	It is fused...the outer ring and inner.....I mentioned that he could drill it and then open it but he said with the stuf he has he can put as much touque on it as he wants...but it will wreck it. They have put some sort of penetrating oil that won't damage the lens in it...it it soaking. He'll give it another month and will then give it back

08-30-2009, 01:00 AM	#27
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Originally posted by k100d back on topic, if you're talking about perceived sharpness (lack of ca, microcontrast, etc.) then sure maybe the A50 is great, but is it really better than the FA50 at f4 to f8? when it comes to perceived sharpness you wouldn't see much of a difference.. there are differences in Bokeh rendering due to the number of aperture blades. I don't know of anyone who set out to buy f/1.2 lens when all they intend to do with it is stop it down to f/8 - however I did a test against the Pentax A 50mm f/1.7 - a decidedly average lens against my SMC-A 50mm f/1.2 and the f/1.2 was noticeably sharper in the corners at f/2 ~f/8 Originally posted by k100d you didn't at all comment on my statement about the versatility ... i'm not here to argue about RF lenses. the M-hexanon lenses are widely regarded as the lens line up that leicaphiles killed deader than hell for no other reason other than spite. Especially the 50mm f/1.2 lenses, they are VERY hard to find because they were a limited edition lens, and they are pretty decent lenses optically speaking (you should try to find the 60mm f/1.2 that is an even rarer beast)

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08-31-2009, 07:09 PM	#28
RT1 Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Kansas City Photos: Gallery Posts: 85 Original Poster	After all of the feedback here, I decided to make a point of putting the 50 on my cam for a couple days...and I simply just cannot justify getting rid of it. After taking some pictures with it today, I'm actually a little upset with myself for not using it more often. It produces some incredible images. Sorry 18-250...your days are numbered.

09-01-2009, 07:14 AM	#29
thomascdk Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Copenhagen Posts: 258	Way to go!

09-01-2009, 08:17 AM	#30
K-9 Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: USA Photos: Albums Posts: 1,971	I really think the lens has a mystique that overshadows it's price and performance. I never shoot any lens larger than f2, and I have a lot of f1.4's. I could never justify the price of the 1.2. I sometimes think the notoriety of the lens makes you think you've got a sharper picture than you really have! That link to Dimitrov's site indicates the normal A 1.2 is not that rare, and only the special chrome version that was sold with the LE LX 2000 is rare. He has the A 1.2 as being available several times per year. It's a lot more common than say the 135mm f1.8. I've probably seen no less than ten A 1.2's for sale on ebay in the past few months. That's more around than say an F 50mm 1.4.