K-7 and "stealth" lens

thomascdk · 09-01-2009, 07:00 AM

An alternative would be a Lensbaby. Like this:

-- removed --

If you place your subject towards the edge of the frame, it'll look like you're shooting something else. + it's a relatively small lens.

Last edited by thomascdk; 09-01-2009 at 10:15 AM. Reason: pain

séamuis · 09-01-2009, 07:16 AM

those photos make my brain hurt.

thomascdk · 09-01-2009, 07:23 AM

Originally posted by séamuis

those photos make my brain hurt.

Is that a good thing?

gnaztee · 09-01-2009, 08:08 AM

Originally posted by Marc Sabatella

I do like the M135/3.5 for this, yeah, but it's just too long at times. My M100/2.8 is a bit better. Also, the need to focus manually takes some of the stealth factor away. I figure the 70 is a pretty good compromise.

This (DA 70) is the lens I was thinking of...same size as the DA 21 but you can stand well back for the shot. Most people dont' realize it's telephoto when it's so small so don't squirm when you shoot them from a close-enough distance.

D W · 09-01-2009, 08:50 AM

DA15, Set it at f8, set focusing according to focus ring/DOFscale, turn off AF, use aperature priority and point and shoot away, no need to bring camera to eye level.

séamuis · 09-01-2009, 09:14 AM

Originally posted by thomascdk

Is that a good thing?

not really, no.

Marc Sabatella · 09-01-2009, 10:36 AM

Originally posted by Nesster

When I take my 70 out for a day, I end up not liking it - the focal length is just too long and too short at the same time, for me.

Of course, to some extent that's true of any prime. I guess it has to do with the typ of shot one likes to take. Shots of crowds, or individual people from a range where you might be actual in conversation with them, shorter focal lengths are great. But I sympathize with the desire to be able to capture reasonably closeup shots of folks a little further off. How close up of an image and from how far away - well, indeed, those will vary, which is why any prime is a compromise.

Actually, I'd just as soon use the DA50-200, as I don't really believe the camera+DA70 combo is so much smaller than the camera+DA50-200 that it really changes the "stealth" factor all that much.

But FWIW, when I look at the outdoor candids I've taken with zooms, I do see clusters at around 70mm and 100mm, with focal lengths from there on up to 300mm (including my use of a 70-300) as well. The shortest focal length I see that have *ever* used for the type of shot we seem to be talking about here - candids shots of inidvidual strangers (or small groups engaged in conversation) on the street is 48mm. So that pretty well confirms my thoughts abouit focal length for my own purposes - 21, 40, and 43 are all too short. If I'm going to use a prime, something in the 70-100 range would be best for me. But as i said, depends on the kind of framing you like to get, and how far away you want to be when taking them.

johnmflores · 09-01-2009, 10:59 AM

On 42nd St in Manhattan, I'd take the 21 because of the density of activity.

On Pearl Street in Boulder, I'd consider the 40.

On Pennsylvania Avenue and The Mall in Washington DC, I might opt for the 70.

In other words, it depends on the street.

philbaum · 09-01-2009, 05:24 PM

Originally posted by johnmflores

On 42nd St in Manhattan, I'd take the 21 because of the density of activity.

On Pearl Street in Boulder, I'd consider the 40.

On Pennsylvania Avenue and The Mall in Washington DC, I might opt for the 70.

In other words, it depends on the street.

I think part of the problem is just getting used to street shooting. With a DA-21, you don't need to be pointing at someone as it has quite a side reach to it. nevertheless, i still feel conspicious when taking the images.

I think large events like boat shows around our area, are ideal for candids. Nearly everyone is walking with a camera. Everyone's inspecting some boat or marine item, and its easy to point at the boat and get the onlookers. In the past i've stood off, but in two weeks i'm going to give my DA-21 a work out by using it much closer in.

I think the worst lens in some respects, is the 18-250 type of lens. They uncoil 3 tubes and get pretty lengthy and very noticeable. At 135mm, the 135 primes are half the length of the 18-250 when extended to the 135mm mark. I've often taken my M-135mmf3.5 along for a really discrete tele. It's slightly under 4" long is memory serves and much smaller in dia. than the 18-250. I used it at a local train station and it didn't bother people. I'd shoot down along the side of the train as people were loading and folks didn't seem to care or they didn't notice. Bring out the big black tube lenses, uncoil the tubes by zooming, and it seems to be different case.

Phil

raymeedc · 09-01-2009, 05:57 PM

When I'm out shooting with my *ist DS in "stealth" mode, I usually have one of my 50s mounted, Not perfect for everything (what is?), but seems to be the best compromise..... long enough, short enough, & fast enough (& with the diminutive DS, unobtrusive enough) for most any situation that might come up.

figmental1978 · 09-01-2009, 07:00 PM

I was recently in Shinsaibashi, Osaka doing a little street shooting and had my K10D + S-M-C Takumar 28mm (42mm with x 1.5) and it was the perfect length to be inconspicuous while getting the shots that I wanted, not too wide, not too long but not standard either.

**xs400** · 09-01-2009, 08:58 PM

For stealth work, I use my K100 and Pentax A 28mm.

pasipasi · 09-04-2009, 09:30 AM

I just got the DA21 myself and it's a really small lens (I don't have any other pancakes or limiteds). The dof scale on the lens is useful, while the dof scale on older lenses is pretty much useless on digital sensor.

I like to shoot wide on the street. Candid portraits are not much of interest to me.

This shot got me wanting a smaller lens (taken with the 16-50)

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09-01-2009, 07:00 AM	#16
thomascdk Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Copenhagen Posts: 258	An alternative would be a Lensbaby. Like this: -- removed -- If you place your subject towards the edge of the frame, it'll look like you're shooting something else. + it's a relatively small lens. Last edited by thomascdk; 09-01-2009 at 10:15 AM. Reason: pain

09-01-2009, 07:16 AM	#17
séamuis Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Savannah, U.S./Baguio City, P.H. Posts: 5,979	those photos make my brain hurt.

09-01-2009, 07:23 AM	#18
thomascdk Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Copenhagen Posts: 258	Originally posted by séamuis those photos make my brain hurt. Is that a good thing?

09-01-2009, 08:08 AM	#19
gnaztee Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: West Palm Beach, FL Posts: 772	Originally posted by Marc Sabatella I do like the M135/3.5 for this, yeah, but it's just too long at times. My M100/2.8 is a bit better. Also, the need to focus manually takes some of the stealth factor away. I figure the 70 is a pretty good compromise. This (DA 70) is the lens I was thinking of...same size as the DA 21 but you can stand well back for the shot. Most people dont' realize it's telephoto when it's so small so don't squirm when you shoot them from a close-enough distance.

09-01-2009, 08:50 AM	#20
D W Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Hogtown, ON, Canada Posts: 329	DA15, Set it at f8, set focusing according to focus ring/DOFscale, turn off AF, use aperature priority and point and shoot away, no need to bring camera to eye level.

09-01-2009, 09:14 AM	#21
séamuis Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Savannah, U.S./Baguio City, P.H. Posts: 5,979	Originally posted by thomascdk Is that a good thing? not really, no.

09-01-2009, 10:36 AM	#22
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,685	Originally posted by Nesster When I take my 70 out for a day, I end up not liking it - the focal length is just too long and too short at the same time, for me. Of course, to some extent that's true of any prime. I guess it has to do with the typ of shot one likes to take. Shots of crowds, or individual people from a range where you might be actual in conversation with them, shorter focal lengths are great. But I sympathize with the desire to be able to capture reasonably closeup shots of folks a little further off. How close up of an image and from how far away - well, indeed, those will vary, which is why any prime is a compromise. Actually, I'd just as soon use the DA50-200, as I don't really believe the camera+DA70 combo is so much smaller than the camera+DA50-200 that it really changes the "stealth" factor all that much. But FWIW, when I look at the outdoor candids I've taken with zooms, I do see clusters at around 70mm and 100mm, with focal lengths from there on up to 300mm (including my use of a 70-300) as well. The shortest focal length I see that have ever used for the type of shot we seem to be talking about here - candids shots of inidvidual strangers (or small groups engaged in conversation) on the street is 48mm. So that pretty well confirms my thoughts abouit focal length for my own purposes - 21, 40, and 43 are all too short. If I'm going to use a prime, something in the 70-100 range would be best for me. But as i said, depends on the kind of framing you like to get, and how far away you want to be when taking them.

09-01-2009, 10:59 AM	#23
johnmflores Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Somerville, NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,361	On 42nd St in Manhattan, I'd take the 21 because of the density of activity. On Pearl Street in Boulder, I'd consider the 40. On Pennsylvania Avenue and The Mall in Washington DC, I might opt for the 70. In other words, it depends on the street.

09-01-2009, 05:24 PM	#24
philbaum Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA Posts: 3,659	Originally posted by johnmflores On 42nd St in Manhattan, I'd take the 21 because of the density of activity. On Pearl Street in Boulder, I'd consider the 40. On Pennsylvania Avenue and The Mall in Washington DC, I might opt for the 70. In other words, it depends on the street. I think part of the problem is just getting used to street shooting. With a DA-21, you don't need to be pointing at someone as it has quite a side reach to it. nevertheless, i still feel conspicious when taking the images. I think large events like boat shows around our area, are ideal for candids. Nearly everyone is walking with a camera. Everyone's inspecting some boat or marine item, and its easy to point at the boat and get the onlookers. In the past i've stood off, but in two weeks i'm going to give my DA-21 a work out by using it much closer in. I think the worst lens in some respects, is the 18-250 type of lens. They uncoil 3 tubes and get pretty lengthy and very noticeable. At 135mm, the 135 primes are half the length of the 18-250 when extended to the 135mm mark. I've often taken my M-135mmf3.5 along for a really discrete tele. It's slightly under 4" long is memory serves and much smaller in dia. than the 18-250. I used it at a local train station and it didn't bother people. I'd shoot down along the side of the train as people were loading and folks didn't seem to care or they didn't notice. Bring out the big black tube lenses, uncoil the tubes by zooming, and it seems to be different case. Phil

09-01-2009, 05:57 PM	#25
raymeedc Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Brooklyn, New York Posts: 951	When I'm out shooting with my *ist DS in "stealth" mode, I usually have one of my 50s mounted, Not perfect for everything (what is?), but seems to be the best compromise..... long enough, short enough, & fast enough (& with the diminutive DS, unobtrusive enough) for most any situation that might come up.

09-01-2009, 07:00 PM	#26
figmental1978 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 789	I was recently in Shinsaibashi, Osaka doing a little street shooting and had my K10D + S-M-C Takumar 28mm (42mm with x 1.5) and it was the perfect length to be inconspicuous while getting the shots that I wanted, not too wide, not too long but not standard either.

09-01-2009, 08:58 PM	#27
xs400 Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: San Francisco Bay Area Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,929	For stealth work, I use my K100 and Pentax A 28mm.

09-04-2009, 09:30 AM	#28
pasipasi Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Oulu Photos: Gallery Posts: 532	I just got the DA21 myself and it's a really small lens (I don't have any other pancakes or limiteds). The dof scale on the lens is useful, while the dof scale on older lenses is pretty much useless on digital sensor. I like to shoot wide on the street. Candid portraits are not much of interest to me. This shot got me wanting a smaller lens (taken with the 16-50)