Did my 77ltd just become a paperweight?

kristoffon · 09-13-2009, 09:03 PM

Today I picked up the 77mm after ~2 months on the shelf and noticed fogginess when I looked through the viewfinder. When I took out the lens to examine it, after cleaning the outer elements, one of the middle elements is fogged up. I took a picture of the fog below.

Then I noticed on a different element lots of tiny dots. None of my other lenses have anything similar. A picture of the dots is below. Is that fungus? They are simply dots, and they look nothing like the fungus photos I've seen. They're also extremely small and the light has to shine just right to make them visible.

Anyone faced a similar problem before? It's the end of winter here in the southern hemisphere but I keep my lenses on an open, ventilated, lit shelf. It did rain a lot the previous weeks though.

Thanks for any help.

Spock · 09-13-2009, 09:12 PM

I fear it is fungus.

If it is, all is not lost. It is possible to get the lens cleaned and disinfected.

Eruditass · 09-13-2009, 09:37 PM

leave it out in the sun / windowsill for a while

Spock · 09-13-2009, 09:41 PM

Originally posted by Eruditass

leave it out in the sun / windowsill for a while

That may (or may not) kill the fungus but will not remove it. Only way to do that is professional cleaning. If you are going to pay for that - get them to disinfect it at the same time.

kathyk · 09-14-2009, 05:58 AM

I think I have read before that those kind of little dots like that is some kind of problem when 2 elements are glued together and begin to separate. Is your lens still under warranty?

arpaagent · 09-14-2009, 06:14 AM

That cloudiness does not look good, but I have had those tiny dots in 2 brand new pentax 43 ltds that have passed through my hands...not sure if it's just normal or not. My photos from it still look amazing, so I don't think they are really hurting. Not 100% sure though. As I've heard someone else say on these forums, don't waste your time shining light through lenses worrying about them, but instead let the light shine through them onto your film (sensor) and everything will be fine. Of course, if you are trying to sell, it's a different story.

But the cloudiness is a different issue...how were you storing it? Do you have A/C or keep it near dessicants to make sure the air is dry?

kristoffon · 09-14-2009, 06:31 AM

Originally posted by kathyk

I think I have read before that those kind of little dots like that is some kind of problem when 2 elements are glued together and begin to separate. Is your lens still under warranty?

No warranty, I got it second-hand. The dots don't bother me as much as the cloudiness of course.

Originally posted by arpaagent

That cloudiness does not look good, but I have had those tiny dots in 2 brand new pentax 43 ltds that have passed through my hands...not sure if it's just normal or not. My photos from it still look amazing, so I don't think they are really hurting. Not 100% sure though. As I've heard someone else say on these forums, don't waste your time shining light through lenses worrying about them, but instead let the light shine through them onto your film (sensor) and everything will be fine. Of course, if you are trying to sell, it's a different story.

But the cloudiness is a different issue...how were you storing it? Do you have A/C or keep it near dessicants to make sure the air is dry?

I just leave it in an open shelf with all my other lenses, in my room. There's ventilation, light, the air here isn't particularly humid.

The dots I can live with and would probably never have noticed were not for the cloudiness.

I'm not trying to sell, just heartbroken my favourite lens (though the one I use the least) is in danger...

frank · 09-14-2009, 09:29 AM

From my experience, that's a foggy lens. Those small dots are the early stage of cloudiness/fog, they'd eventually become foggy like the cloudy part.

I'm sorry to tell you, there is no cure for this except change lens element. Fog is worse than fungus.

**pentaxman** · 09-14-2009, 09:59 AM

There is no way to tell exactly what is going on without disassembling the lens. It may be just lubricant condensing on the lens elements which is very easy to clean off. I am not sure what causes this, but it is not too unusual. I would find a repair person that you can trust and send the lens to them. You might even send it to Pentax, but you have to pay for the repair.

FotoPete · 09-14-2009, 10:32 AM

Good luck with the repair. Kinda looks like condensation. Anyone recommend a lightly applied blow dryer test?

Wonder if it could also be fungal growth of some sort. My friend's 50/1.4's got such an even meshing of fungus, its given the 50 an almost built in soft filter. My Super Tak 50 has some fungus as does my M50 (uneven mix of condensation and fungal networks).

I wonder if SMC is just that much more of an exotic taste. (sorry)

**pentaxman** · 09-14-2009, 12:05 PM

There is hope! This is what one of my lenses looked like prior to cleaning - now it is perfect!

kristoffon · 09-14-2009, 06:19 PM

After leaving the lens with open aperture below a lamp for 24hrs the fogging did subside to the point of the lens being usable again. So maybe it's just condesation. But it's still very visible. And then there are the dots, I'm having the lens opened.

Thanks for all the opinions.

09-13-2009, 09:03 PM	#1
kristoffon Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Brazil Posts: 532	Did my 77ltd just become a paperweight? Today I picked up the 77mm after ~2 months on the shelf and noticed fogginess when I looked through the viewfinder. When I took out the lens to examine it, after cleaning the outer elements, one of the middle elements is fogged up. I took a picture of the fog below. Then I noticed on a different element lots of tiny dots. None of my other lenses have anything similar. A picture of the dots is below. Is that fungus? They are simply dots, and they look nothing like the fungus photos I've seen. They're also extremely small and the light has to shine just right to make them visible. Anyone faced a similar problem before? It's the end of winter here in the southern hemisphere but I keep my lenses on an open, ventilated, lit shelf. It did rain a lot the previous weeks though. Thanks for any help.

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09-13-2009, 09:12 PM	#2
Spock Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 674	I fear it is fungus. If it is, all is not lost. It is possible to get the lens cleaned and disinfected.

09-13-2009, 09:37 PM	#3
Eruditass Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,207	leave it out in the sun / windowsill for a while

09-13-2009, 09:41 PM	#4
Spock Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 674	Originally posted by Eruditass leave it out in the sun / windowsill for a while That may (or may not) kill the fungus but will not remove it. Only way to do that is professional cleaning. If you are going to pay for that - get them to disinfect it at the same time.

09-14-2009, 05:58 AM	#5
kathyk Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Michigan/USA Posts: 173	I think I have read before that those kind of little dots like that is some kind of problem when 2 elements are glued together and begin to separate. Is your lens still under warranty?

09-14-2009, 06:14 AM	#6
arpaagent Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Raleigh, NC Photos: Gallery Posts: 803	That cloudiness does not look good, but I have had those tiny dots in 2 brand new pentax 43 ltds that have passed through my hands...not sure if it's just normal or not. My photos from it still look amazing, so I don't think they are really hurting. Not 100% sure though. As I've heard someone else say on these forums, don't waste your time shining light through lenses worrying about them, but instead let the light shine through them onto your film (sensor) and everything will be fine. Of course, if you are trying to sell, it's a different story. But the cloudiness is a different issue...how were you storing it? Do you have A/C or keep it near dessicants to make sure the air is dry?

09-14-2009, 06:31 AM	#7
kristoffon Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Brazil Posts: 532 Original Poster	Originally posted by kathyk I think I have read before that those kind of little dots like that is some kind of problem when 2 elements are glued together and begin to separate. Is your lens still under warranty? No warranty, I got it second-hand. The dots don't bother me as much as the cloudiness of course. Originally posted by arpaagent That cloudiness does not look good, but I have had those tiny dots in 2 brand new pentax 43 ltds that have passed through my hands...not sure if it's just normal or not. My photos from it still look amazing, so I don't think they are really hurting. Not 100% sure though. As I've heard someone else say on these forums, don't waste your time shining light through lenses worrying about them, but instead let the light shine through them onto your film (sensor) and everything will be fine. Of course, if you are trying to sell, it's a different story. But the cloudiness is a different issue...how were you storing it? Do you have A/C or keep it near dessicants to make sure the air is dry? I just leave it in an open shelf with all my other lenses, in my room. There's ventilation, light, the air here isn't particularly humid. The dots I can live with and would probably never have noticed were not for the cloudiness. I'm not trying to sell, just heartbroken my favourite lens (though the one I use the least) is in danger...

09-14-2009, 09:29 AM	#8
frank Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Singapore Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,202	From my experience, that's a foggy lens. Those small dots are the early stage of cloudiness/fog, they'd eventually become foggy like the cloudy part. I'm sorry to tell you, there is no cure for this except change lens element. Fog is worse than fungus.

09-14-2009, 09:59 AM	#9
pentaxman Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Washington Photos: Gallery Posts: 250	There is no way to tell exactly what is going on without disassembling the lens. It may be just lubricant condensing on the lens elements which is very easy to clean off. I am not sure what causes this, but it is not too unusual. I would find a repair person that you can trust and send the lens to them. You might even send it to Pentax, but you have to pay for the repair.

09-14-2009, 10:32 AM	#10
FotoPete Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,774	Good luck with the repair. Kinda looks like condensation. Anyone recommend a lightly applied blow dryer test? Wonder if it could also be fungal growth of some sort. My friend's 50/1.4's got such an even meshing of fungus, its given the 50 an almost built in soft filter. My Super Tak 50 has some fungus as does my M50 (uneven mix of condensation and fungal networks). I wonder if SMC is just that much more of an exotic taste. (sorry)

09-14-2009, 12:05 PM	#11
pentaxman Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Washington Photos: Gallery Posts: 250	There is hope! This is what one of my lenses looked like prior to cleaning - now it is perfect!

09-14-2009, 06:19 PM	#12
kristoffon Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Brazil Posts: 532 Original Poster	After leaving the lens with open aperture below a lamp for 24hrs the fogging did subside to the point of the lens being usable again. So maybe it's just condesation. But it's still very visible. And then there are the dots, I'm having the lens opened. Thanks for all the opinions.