Does one stop faster make such a difference?

Spock · 09-13-2009, 09:11 PM

In this day and age of camera body SR, does one stop faster really make such a difference? I mean is it really worth paying much more $$$ to get a F2.8 lens over a F4?

Discuss.

Blue · 09-13-2009, 09:12 PM

For many, probably not. It comes down to the kind of shooting. For example, early morning (day break) bird shooting is an example of where it can make a difference.

Spock · 09-13-2009, 09:19 PM

To further illustrate my point: an A200/4 weighs 405g while the A*200/2.8 weighs twice as much at 850g (and costs at least 5x as much) for only 1 stop difference. Makes you wonder...

pbo · 09-13-2009, 09:25 PM

Well, weight certainly adds to the holding stability. And a stop faster doubles the max shutter speed - which is seems like a lot to me...

dragonfly · 09-13-2009, 09:29 PM

I'd prefer praying for sunny days.

Blue · 09-13-2009, 09:30 PM

Originally posted by Spock

To further illustrate my point: an A200/4 weighs 405g while the A*200/2.8 weighs twice as much at 850g (and costs at least 5x as much) for only 1 stop difference. Makes you wonder...

An f4 200mm lens is slow by modern standards. It really has to be weighed (no pun intended) against what is being attempted. In the other thread, you were comparing a 300mm f4 to a 200mm f2.8.

frank · 09-13-2009, 09:34 PM

It also depends on which lens you are comparing with. If you are comparing a 200/4 to a 200/2.8, then yes, the difference is pretty big in my experience. But if you are comparing a 20/4 to a 20/2.8, then that one stop doesn't really make a big difference (to some it might still be a big difference).

Spock · 09-13-2009, 09:34 PM

Originally posted by Blue

An f4 200mm lens is slow by modern standards.

Not really, Pentax's own DA50-200 is F5.6 at 200. To my knowledge no one makes a faster 200mm consumer-grade lens nowadays.

Eruditass · 09-13-2009, 09:37 PM

Yes, it means going from 3200 ISO to 1600 when I need it. Like indoor sports or outdoor sports with shade

pbo · 09-13-2009, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Not really, Pentax's own DA50-200 is F5.6 at 200. To my knowledge no one makes a faster 200mm consumer-grade lens nowadays.

True. Do you rely on AF? If not, you can find perfectly good zooms that are faster than most of the "new" consumer-grade glass, but MF only. (like, for the price of a DA50-200, you can get a very good 3.5 max aperture lens, about the same focal length)

Spock · 09-13-2009, 09:49 PM

Originally posted by pbo

True. Do you rely on AF? If not, you can find perfectly good zooms that are faster than most of the "new" consumer-grade glass, but MF only. (like, for the price of a DA50-200, you can get a very good 3.5 max aperture lens, about the same focal length)

I am quite happy with MF (in fact I use AF like MF in that I use the rear AF button and only re-focus when I need to).

And I just bought this:

Just hope when it arrives it matches the description:

mint in the box/case Pentax-M 200mm f/4 manual focus prime lens for all K-mount film and digital cameras. Made in Japan, this comes with the original front and rear caps and has a built in hood. 8 blade aperture (that right a full 8 blades) is nice and snappy and free of any oil, focus is smooth and tight, aperture clicks positive like it should, glass has no fungus, haze or scratches.

Cosmetically, mechanically and optically this lens looks brand new, one of pentax's all time sharpest lenses

Blue · 09-13-2009, 10:03 PM

Originally posted by Spock

Not really, Pentax's own DA50-200 is F5.6 at 200. To my knowledge no one makes a faster 200mm consumer-grade lens nowadays.

The 50-200mm is slow and so is the 55-300mm . . . optically slow. AF is a different but related discussion. However, the DA* 200mm f2.8 and DA* 300mm f4 lenses are in production by Pentax. They are optically faster and AF faster.

Edit: If you want to through zooms in there, Pentax also has the DA* 50-135mm and DA* 60-250mm f2.8 lenses.

Spock · 09-13-2009, 10:08 PM

Originally posted by Blue

The 50-200mm is slow and so is the 55-300mm . . . optically slow. AF is a different but related discussion. However, the DA* 200mm f2.8 and DA* 300mm f4 lenses are in production by Pentax. They are optically faster and AF faster.

Edit: If you want to through zooms in there, Pentax also has the DA* 50-135mm and DA* 60-250mm f2.8 lenses.

Isn't the DA* 60-250mm an f4?

Pentaxor · 09-13-2009, 10:20 PM

as long as it got excellent IQ and very useable at it's fastest opening like 1.+ something, then the answer is YES. besides, we are also talking about DOF here.

**Digitalis** · 09-13-2009, 10:55 PM

a faster lens enables the use of faster shutter speeds, SR cannot compensate for subject motion but it can compensate for your motion.. also a faster lens allows you to stop down more an increase resolution a f/1.4 lens and a f/2 lens when both of them are stopped down to f/2.8 the f/1.4 lens is most likely to be superior in image quality.

09-13-2009, 09:11 PM	#1
Spock Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 674	Does one stop faster make such a difference? In this day and age of camera body SR, does one stop faster really make such a difference? I mean is it really worth paying much more $$$ to get a F2.8 lens over a F4? Discuss.

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09-13-2009, 09:12 PM	#2
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	For many, probably not. It comes down to the kind of shooting. For example, early morning (day break) bird shooting is an example of where it can make a difference.

09-13-2009, 09:19 PM	#3
Spock Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 674 Original Poster	To further illustrate my point: an A200/4 weighs 405g while the A*200/2.8 weighs twice as much at 850g (and costs at least 5x as much) for only 1 stop difference. Makes you wonder...

09-13-2009, 09:25 PM	#4
pbo Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 891	Well, weight certainly adds to the holding stability. And a stop faster doubles the max shutter speed - which is seems like a lot to me...

09-13-2009, 09:29 PM	#5
dragonfly Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: on the wall Photos: Gallery Posts: 715	I'd prefer praying for sunny days.

09-13-2009, 09:30 PM	#6
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by Spock To further illustrate my point: an A200/4 weighs 405g while the A*200/2.8 weighs twice as much at 850g (and costs at least 5x as much) for only 1 stop difference. Makes you wonder... An f4 200mm lens is slow by modern standards. It really has to be weighed (no pun intended) against what is being attempted. In the other thread, you were comparing a 300mm f4 to a 200mm f2.8.

09-13-2009, 09:34 PM	#7
frank Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Singapore Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,202	It also depends on which lens you are comparing with. If you are comparing a 200/4 to a 200/2.8, then yes, the difference is pretty big in my experience. But if you are comparing a 20/4 to a 20/2.8, then that one stop doesn't really make a big difference (to some it might still be a big difference).

09-13-2009, 09:34 PM	#8
Spock Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 674 Original Poster	Originally posted by Blue An f4 200mm lens is slow by modern standards. Not really, Pentax's own DA50-200 is F5.6 at 200. To my knowledge no one makes a faster 200mm consumer-grade lens nowadays.

09-13-2009, 09:37 PM	#9
Eruditass Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,207	Yes, it means going from 3200 ISO to 1600 when I need it. Like indoor sports or outdoor sports with shade

09-13-2009, 09:42 PM	#10
pbo Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 891	Quote: Not really, Pentax's own DA50-200 is F5.6 at 200. To my knowledge no one makes a faster 200mm consumer-grade lens nowadays. True. Do you rely on AF? If not, you can find perfectly good zooms that are faster than most of the "new" consumer-grade glass, but MF only. (like, for the price of a DA50-200, you can get a very good 3.5 max aperture lens, about the same focal length)

09-13-2009, 09:49 PM	#11
Spock Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 674 Original Poster	Originally posted by pbo True. Do you rely on AF? If not, you can find perfectly good zooms that are faster than most of the "new" consumer-grade glass, but MF only. (like, for the price of a DA50-200, you can get a very good 3.5 max aperture lens, about the same focal length) I am quite happy with MF (in fact I use AF like MF in that I use the rear AF button and only re-focus when I need to). And I just bought this: Just hope when it arrives it matches the description: mint in the box/case Pentax-M 200mm f/4 manual focus prime lens for all K-mount film and digital cameras. Made in Japan, this comes with the original front and rear caps and has a built in hood. 8 blade aperture (that right a full 8 blades) is nice and snappy and free of any oil, focus is smooth and tight, aperture clicks positive like it should, glass has no fungus, haze or scratches. Cosmetically, mechanically and optically this lens looks brand new, one of pentax's all time sharpest lenses

09-13-2009, 10:03 PM	#12
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by Spock Not really, Pentax's own DA50-200 is F5.6 at 200. To my knowledge no one makes a faster 200mm consumer-grade lens nowadays. The 50-200mm is slow and so is the 55-300mm . . . optically slow. AF is a different but related discussion. However, the DA* 200mm f2.8 and DA* 300mm f4 lenses are in production by Pentax. They are optically faster and AF faster. Edit: If you want to through zooms in there, Pentax also has the DA* 50-135mm and DA* 60-250mm f2.8 lenses.

09-13-2009, 10:08 PM	#13
Spock Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 674 Original Poster	Originally posted by Blue The 50-200mm is slow and so is the 55-300mm . . . optically slow. AF is a different but related discussion. However, the DA* 200mm f2.8 and DA* 300mm f4 lenses are in production by Pentax. They are optically faster and AF faster. Edit: If you want to through zooms in there, Pentax also has the DA* 50-135mm and DA* 60-250mm f2.8 lenses. Isn't the DA* 60-250mm an f4?

09-13-2009, 10:20 PM	#14
Pentaxor Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,513	as long as it got excellent IQ and very useable at it's fastest opening like 1.+ something, then the answer is YES. besides, we are also talking about DOF here.

09-13-2009, 10:55 PM	#15
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	a faster lens enables the use of faster shutter speeds, SR cannot compensate for subject motion but it can compensate for your motion.. also a faster lens allows you to stop down more an increase resolution a f/1.4 lens and a f/2 lens when both of them are stopped down to f/2.8 the f/1.4 lens is most likely to be superior in image quality.