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09-23-2009, 09:02 PM   #1
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Amazon itself is selling FA50/1.4 for over 400.

Remember that thread about the FA50/1.4 being sold for 600 by a third party dealer on Amazon? Well Amazon itself is now selling the lens for over 400, kind of weird.
Amazon.com: Pentax SMCP-FA 50mm f/1.4 Lens: Electronics

B&HPhoto itself is now selling the lens for 360
Pentax | Normal SMCP-FA 50mm f/1.4 Autofocus Lens | 20817 | B&H

Adorama is now selling it for 380
20817 Pentax SMCP-FA 50mm f/1.4 Standard Auto Focus Lens

Has this lens sleepingly increased in price just now? I bought this exact same lens off Amazon last month for 250. I thought Amazon was just plain nuts increasing the price by 150 at first until I checked B&HPhoto and Adorama, their prices has increased by over 100 also.

09-23-2009, 09:33 PM   #2
Igilligan
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That is crazy... What is hoya thinking with these price increases. They come out with a couple of nice new cams the K7 and the new K-X, that could probably compete head to head with the competion and then price their lenses out of range! I dont think they want the Pentax Camera division to succeed.

I was just getting ready to put my FA 50 1.4 or 1.7 up for sale... I think the price just went up on mine too... Crazy I tell you.
09-23-2009, 09:45 PM   #3
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Price inelasticity of demand

Actually, rational (in a business sense) pricing of these lenses is evidence Hoya DOES want Pentax to succeed.
  1. The Yen/USD exchange rate accounts for the price move from $200 to $250.
  2. Capital scarcity necessary to "carry" inventory SHOULD lower the price, as Hoya would want to clear inventory
  3. Only answer then is, demand from B&H, Adorama and Amazon versus end-of-stock on the lens is causing a price hike. Simple price inelasticity of demand. If the dealers didn't think they could sell them they'd just refuse to buy and mark the lenses discontinued. (In fact, I think B&H had the 50/1.4 discontinued earlier this month). Lens is showing $429.95 at Pentax Webstore.
Glad I go mine (and FA35/2) when the prices were normal.
09-23-2009, 09:52 PM   #4
Igilligan
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I guess I will never get the economic reality. The US economy is stagnant at best... Unemployment up... Retail consumer goods sales down (with exception of the govt incentive car sales)

So prices of lenses must go up... So they will sell more? I just be to dang dum to git it.

Help me understand. I was in the market for an AF Zoom lens. It will not be the Pentax now... how does that help Hoya?

09-23-2009, 10:25 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by Igilligan Quote
I guess I will never get the economic reality. The US economy is stagnant at best... Unemployment up... Retail consumer goods sales down (with exception of the govt incentive car sales)

So prices of lenses must go up... So they will sell more? I just be to dang dum to git it.

Help me understand. I was in the market for an AF Zoom lens. It will not be the Pentax now... how does that help Hoya?
For the FA50, there probably aren't many more available in global inventory so Hoya can practically charge whatever it wants for them. I've read that there hasn't been a production run in quite some time. As an example, the K10D I bought in March 08 for $515 was selling for $695 in May, well after the K20D was released.

There must be enough demand for the FA Ltd and DA lenses, and limited enough supply of them, that Hoya can sell them at the higher prices. Otherwise the higher prices wouldn't stick.

Not everyone is jobless, and the stock market is up 50% since early March. Some people must have money.

Higher volume at lower prices equals the same revenue as lower volume at higher prices. Higher volume at lower prices, though, requires more (trained) workers and more production lines - so results in less profit. The pricing strategy, while unfortunate for us, is actually more profitable for Hoya, as long as they sell all their available production capacity. They seem to believe they can do so.

Since we want Pentax to survive, and higher profit makes survival more likely, we should actually WANT these price increases to stick.

Last edited by monochrome; 09-23-2009 at 10:36 PM.
09-23-2009, 11:21 PM   #6
Igilligan
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Why would we care if they succeed?

QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
For the FA50, there probably aren't many more available in global inventory so Hoya can practically charge whatever it wants for them. I've read that there hasn't been a production run in quite some time. As an example, the K10D I bought in March 08 for $515 was selling for $695 in May, well after the K20D was released.

There must be enough demand for the FA Ltd and DA lenses, and limited enough supply of them, that Hoya can sell them at the higher prices. Otherwise the higher prices wouldn't stick.

Not everyone is jobless, and the stock market is up 50% since early March. Some people must have money.

Higher volume at lower prices equals the same revenue as lower volume at higher prices. Higher volume at lower prices, though, requires more (trained) workers and more production lines - so results in less profit. The pricing strategy, while unfortunate for us, is actually more profitable for Hoya, as long as they sell all their available production capacity. They seem to believe they can do so.

Since we want Pentax to survive, and higher profit makes survival more likely, we should actually WANT these price increases to stick.
And my answer would be... why would many of us give a shit if Pentax survives now? Especially if we can no longer afford to buy any of their dang lenses?
The reason why many of us chose Pentax over the other more accessible, and in many cases better systems was that it was "affordable" with decent features and a good selection of fairly reasonably priced lenses.

I can tell you for a fact, if the FA 50 1.4 had been $380 when I was making my decision to get my first DSLR... My first DSLR would have been a Nikon D50 and I would be shooting a D90 or D300 right now.

The Nikon 28 2.8 is $269
The Nikon 35 1.8 is $199
The Nikon 50 1.8 is $125
The Nikon 85 1.8 is $429 only 50 dollars more than the PF'n Pentax 50 1.4

Seems like a fun little prime starter kit to me...

So they don't got a pancake... big deal.

You are absolutely correct that if they charge twice as much they will make more money with fewer lenses, with less manufacturing costs... and you are also right the there are still lots of well off people with way to much money who may very well pay twice as much for a lens. And there are stupid Pentax loyalists that will pay too much for whatever Hoya puts the Pentax label on. Sadly for me, I am not one.

If the strategy is to sell the lens I want to someone else for twice what I can afford to pay...
Then I am not part of their strategy and I care as much about the Pentax/Hoya future as they do about mine. So FU H/P

Thanks... I needed to vent!
09-23-2009, 11:31 PM   #7
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Gus: Too long to quote your whole post - but - I have sat in pricing meetings where that entire line of reasoning was presented.

The decision, though, is always to potentially sacrifice uncertain future revenue in order to increase predictable near-term profit, because the future is unknowable.

It works best, though, if you are the first mover in a product.

In your case, at least you could sell your Pentax stuff at better prices now than you could have gotten last spring, and start over with something else.

Pentax will just not be stable until they present a complete range of bodies, lenses, accessories and support.

Not gonna happen in my lifetime.
09-24-2009, 01:17 AM   #8
Igilligan
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
pentax will just not be stable until they present a complete range of bodies, lenses, accessories and support.

Not gonna happen in my lifetime.
8^) 8^) 8^(

09-24-2009, 04:09 AM   #9
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Nothing useful to add, just wanted to say that...wow....that is craziness. I'm lucky I got my f/1.4 for $250...

Good thing I'm not looking to sink a bunch of money into lenses any time soon. Are these lens price fluctuations anything like US gas price fluctuations? Summer 2008 they were in the $4/gallon range. Now they are in the low-to-mid $2/gallon. Hopefully lens prices will come back down sometime, since I would love to own an autofocus wide angle lens.
09-24-2009, 08:45 PM   #10
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Amazon's price on this lens is now $359, matching B+H. That puts them back in line with the other reputable dealers, but its still amazing to see how scarcity is driving up the price of a once-affordable lens.

I got mine new a couple years ago from B+H for $199. Now I find myself wondering if I use it enough to keep in the face of a greatly increased market value.
09-26-2009, 07:16 AM   #11
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thats insane - i paid around $180 is two years ago
09-26-2009, 07:53 AM   #12
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The prices of ALL lenses are going up. I was talking to a Nikon guy at the Adirondack Balloon festival yesterday. We were both shooting with fisheyes so when everybody else with a camera was backing up while the ballons inflated we were walking forward. We were comparing shots and got to chatting about glass prices and he told me that Nikon prices have also gone up steeply and nearly doubled on some lenses. Whether or not people buy them up at these prices remains to be seen. Some of my planned purchases have been put on hold for the time being.
09-26-2009, 11:22 AM   #13
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I don't think the exchange rate for dollars against the yen has magically managed to exempt Nikon, so no big surprise they'd have to jack US prices up too.
09-26-2009, 03:09 PM   #14
Nubi
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Supply and Demand. Very simple.

Apparently there are people who still firmly believe that FF is on the way in the near future. This type of anticipation is also driving up the price of FA ltds. Pentax can really rake in if they purposely leak the coming of FF, true or not.

This will be very interesting in the next 12 months or so. The K-7 replacement was already in the works before K-7 came out. Is it going to be FF? I did hear that they are pretty close to coming up with P/S with APS-C sensor. They may be speculating that the cost of large sensors will come down fairly dramatically that coming up with medium size format in a much smaller body than 645D is the way to go.

It will be very interesting, indeed.

Last edited by Nubi; 09-26-2009 at 03:10 PM. Reason: Because I farted
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