Fast, Good Macro Lens?

Mark Morb · 10-21-2009, 05:27 AM

Originally posted by Class A

I'd give the Sigma 70/2.8 serious consideration. You can shoot critters with it, it does awesome product shots, and it nicely doubles as a portrait lens (personally, I find 100mm or even 90mm too long for this application).
In another thread, I posted some more links to Sigma 70/2.8 shots.
I don't have that lens yet, but I sure will get it in the not too distant future.

Wow...that looks like a great lens..some fantastic shots taken with it in those threads...looks like I've just added another contender to the list....

Damn Brit · 10-22-2009, 03:37 AM

In case this might interest you Mark.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/photographers-marketplace/77228-sale-85mm...converter.html

geauxpez · 10-22-2009, 05:05 AM

Originally posted by Ash

A macro lens is rarely set to f/4 shooting a macro shot - DoF would be barely existant! So to me there's no such thing as a 'slow' macro - for macro use, f/8-f/22 would have to be my most important aperture settings.

Although I do double-up my FA 100/2.8 as a portrait/event lens as well, and the f/2.8 does come in handy in those situations.

I believe my shot posted above was at around f4.5. I was trying to keep the shutter speed up since it was handheld.

**Ash** · 10-22-2009, 05:15 AM

Originally posted by geauxpez

I believe my shot posted above was at around f4.5. I was trying to keep the shutter speed up since it was handheld.

Well and good - Gary's already mentioned it, and I'll reiterate that you won't find many situations where you would use f/4 shooting macro shots. Stopping down will be necessary in most cases, thereby needing a tripod - doesn't matter if you have a 'fast' or a 'slow' macro.

Piotr · 10-22-2009, 06:28 AM

Originally posted by Mark Morb

Hi,

I'm keen on adding a good Macro to my collection.
..
No, I'm not made of money but I'm selling guitars to finance this...how things change!!

Thanks,
Mark

Mark,

maybe it will help you to decide. Here is my story.
I started few years ago with FA 100/2.8 Macro. Great lens for macro, works just standalone or with additional tubes, teleconverters and flash. It is extremly sharp and really very handy.

Pentax *ist DS ,Pentax smc P-FA 100mm f/2.8 Macro +TC1.7 +3tubes (68mm) 1/180s f/22.0 iso200

I started to look for something longer and bought Voigtlander 125/2.5. It is very good macro, sharp as FA 100. Not so handy but weight is similar 695g vs. 600g of FA. It has one great advantage for me - it is perfect portrait lens. There was something wrong with FA 100 as portrait lens. It is my personal opinion but bokeh is much better from Voigtlander 125.
Pentax *ist DS ,Voigtlander 125mm f/2.5 SL Macro APO-Lanthar 1/180s f/3.5 at 125.0mm iso400

So I sold my FA100.

And again I started to look for something smaller. I bought DA35/2.8 Limited which is absolutly amazing lens. So small lens with 1:1 macro. It gives beautiful colours and great bokeh.
Pentax K20D ,Pentax smc DA 35mm f/2.8 Macro Limited 1/80s f/5.0 at 35.0mm iso200

But, you need nearly touch the insect to take shot. And again, I did't like it as general purpose lens and to have just 35mm macro not enough. I sold it.

Again I started to look for another lens again. I bought Leitz macro-Elmarit 60mm. And found it to be GREAT portrait lens - but not so great for macro. Anyway, I decided to keep it.

Last macro is Vivitar Series 1 90/2.5. It is example of great old lens with great capability. Extremly sharp, but because of its construction not so easy to use. It is very powerful as macro lens and in addition great portrait lens.
Pentax PENTAX K20D,Vivitar 90 mm f/2.5 Macro 1/40s f4 at 90.0mm iso200

It is not end of history. I'v just bought FA 50/2.8 Macro.

more shots from these lenses:
Flowers

Best of Macro

Mark Morb · 10-22-2009, 06:39 AM

Wow, great post Piotr...
Interesting journey illustrated with some lovely shots (the Voigtlander seems to just have the edge I think)
Thanks :-)

Mark

Oggy · 10-23-2009, 03:38 PM

Excellent pictures Piotr - that first one is stunning.

I have just this evening got a DFA 100mm F2.8 Macro. Initial impressions are that it is a remarkable lens. In terms of sharpness, it's going to give the mighty DA*300 a run for it's money.

dichro1 · 10-24-2009, 09:54 AM

I find one of my favorites has been quite neglected. With macro lenses costing upwards of $600 to $900 and much more, an old solution can work very well. If you have a bellows, or even a set of extension tubes, this will work great.

Enlarging lenses are designed for close, flat field work. A Leica thread to pentax thread adapter, and, perhaps a Px thread to Kmount adapter makes a superb macro setup! Find the lenses and tubes, adapters etc. used, and there you are. Don't forget a reversing lens adapter for the kit.

Used bellows: $70;Enlarging lens:$10-25;Adapters(thread-to-K-mount, Leica to pentax thread, reversing--$30-40; Extension tube set: 10-$20 Total: $135 $30 more for a slider rail for those who can splurge. Ext tube set is either bellows or ext tubes for most uses.

Not as convenient or fast, but equal in quality, and a lot cheaper. Probably with more range of possibilities. Of course you learn more too.

dichro1 · 10-24-2009, 10:12 AM

Newarts, can you elucidate the details of the f*(1+m) formula? What is f and m?
While at it, what is the 1/f rule? (I think in know: 1 over focal length is shutter speed? With digital I believe it is 1*crop factor over focal length.)

newarts · 10-24-2009, 11:05 AM

Originally posted by dichro1

Newarts, can you elucidate the details of the f*(1+m) formula? What is f and m?
While at it, what is the 1/f rule? (I think in know: 1 over focal length is shutter speed? With digital I believe it is 1*crop factor over focal length.)

Sorry I initially missed the question...

The normal rule of thumb is the shutter speed needed to handhold a lens is about 1/f where f is focal length in millimeters. This rough rule is for 35mm sensors.

The rule is based on the camera's rotating about the lens a little which in turn sweeps the image over the sensor.

The image sweep across the sensor increases with the distance from the lens to the sensor; when the camera is focused at infinity, this distance is f, the focal length - but when the focus is *not* at infinity the distance from lens to sensor is f*(1+m) where m is magnification - an important detail for the macro photographer.

Whether or not to apply the crop factor as well depnds on how you'll crop the image; for no cropping and a fixed sized print, you want the image to sweep less than some small fraction of the print (like one print pixel) - so a smaller frame means a smaller allowable distance - so yes, you apply the crop factor*.

Another reasonable criterion is to keep image sweep less than one pixel on the sensor; ie. for 100% crops. In this case the appropriate adjustment factor is the ratio of sensor pixel spacings rather than overall sensor size.

Remember these are only guidelines that apply differently to differing people and situations (like elbows on table, leaning against wall, balancing on one foot, excess caffeine, too heavy a lens, too light a lens, etc.) However, an individual will usually have a harder time with the same lens hand-holding a 1:1 magnification macro than hand-holding a portrait.

Dave in Iowa

*by this logic the crop factor should always be considered, if you are going to crop the photo in half and or double the enlargement, you'd best change the shutter speed by a factor of 2 as well.

Jewelltrail · 10-24-2009, 01:36 PM

I shoot macro with the Tammy 90mm and am happy--it is a great lens and a fantastic bargain, particularly if you can get it with the generous rebate which sometimes appears.

**G_Money** · 10-24-2009, 02:28 PM

Originally posted by twilight_samurai

Hmm.. a unicorn, eh? I just saw this on the local Craigslist..

viogtlander V125 Macro PK Pentax

Well, I guess I owe you some kind of finder's fee, twilight. I just got back from Toronto with the aforementioned Voigtländer. Very nice seller, brought the lens from Hong Kong a little over a year ago and only used it a few times. There is a piece of dust on an inside element

but other than that it's clean. Thanks for the heads up!

On a related note, the ring flashes that I use with my Lester Dine 105mm are 52mm. The Voigtländer takes a 58mm. Does anyone want to make an educated guess if a step-down ring will cause any vignetting? I'm hoping that using the lens at f/11 and beyond will eliminate the risk of this, but if anyone has any experience I'd appreciate your opinions.

twilight_samurai · 10-24-2009, 02:42 PM

Originally posted by G_Money

Well, I guess I owe you some kind of finder's fee, twilight. I just got back from Toronto with the aforementioned Voigtländer. Very nice seller, brought the lens from Hong Kong a little over a year ago and only used it a few times. There is a piece of dust on an inside element

but other than that it's clean. Thanks for the heads up!

On a related note, the ring flashes that I use with my Lester Dine 105mm are 52mm. The Voigtländer takes a 58mm. Does anyone want to make an educated guess if a step-down ring will cause any vignetting? I'm hoping that using the lens at f/11 and beyond will eliminate the risk of this, but if anyone has any experience I'd appreciate your opinions.

Hey, glad someone from this forum snapped it up!

Hope you'll post some images taken with your new acquisition!

creampuff · 10-24-2009, 03:21 PM

Congrats G_Money.

**Miguel** · 10-26-2009, 04:08 PM

G_Money, congratulations on procuring the Voigtlander. I wish I could help you with useful information about ring flash vignetting using the stepped-down ring.

I recently obtained a Sigma closeup ring flash, and using it with the Voigtlander is highly satisfying, so I encourage you to pursue ring flash use.

K20D, Voigtlander 125mm f11 @ 1/180 [PTTL], ISO 400

M

10-24-2009, 09:54 AM	#38
dichro1 New Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: California, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 12	Great macro lens I find one of my favorites has been quite neglected. With macro lenses costing upwards of $600 to $900 and much more, an old solution can work very well. If you have a bellows, or even a set of extension tubes, this will work great. Enlarging lenses are designed for close, flat field work. A Leica thread to pentax thread adapter, and, perhaps a Px thread to Kmount adapter makes a superb macro setup! Find the lenses and tubes, adapters etc. used, and there you are. Don't forget a reversing lens adapter for the kit. Used bellows: $70;Enlarging lens:$10-25;Adapters(thread-to-K-mount, Leica to pentax thread, reversing--$30-40; Extension tube set: 10-$20 Total: $135 $30 more for a slider rail for those who can splurge. Ext tube set is either bellows or ext tubes for most uses. Not as convenient or fast, but equal in quality, and a lot cheaper. Probably with more range of possibilities. Of course you learn more too.

10-24-2009, 11:05 AM	#40
newarts Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Ames, Iowa, USA Photos: Albums Posts: 2,965	Originally posted by dichro1 Newarts, can you elucidate the details of the f(1+m) formula? What is f and m? While at it, what is the 1/f rule? (I think in know: 1 over focal length is shutter speed? With digital I believe it is 1crop factor over focal length.) Sorry I initially missed the question... The normal rule of thumb is the shutter speed needed to handhold a lens is about 1/f where f is focal length in millimeters. This rough rule is for 35mm sensors. The rule is based on the camera's rotating about the lens a little which in turn sweeps the image over the sensor. The image sweep across the sensor increases with the distance from the lens to the sensor; when the camera is focused at infinity, this distance is f, the focal length - but when the focus is not at infinity the distance from lens to sensor is f(1+m) where m is magnification - an important detail for the macro photographer. Whether or not to apply the crop factor as well depnds on how you'll crop the image; for no cropping and a fixed sized print, you want the image to sweep less than some small fraction of the print (like one print pixel) - so a smaller frame means a smaller allowable distance - so yes, you apply the crop factor. Another reasonable criterion is to keep image sweep less than one pixel on the sensor; ie. for 100% crops. In this case the appropriate adjustment factor is the ratio of sensor pixel spacings rather than overall sensor size. Remember these are only guidelines that apply differently to differing people and situations (like elbows on table, leaning against wall, balancing on one foot, excess caffeine, too heavy a lens, too light a lens, etc.) However, an individual will usually have a harder time with the same lens hand-holding a 1:1 magnification macro than hand-holding a portrait. Dave in Iowa by this logic the crop factor should always be considered, if you are going to crop the photo in half and or double the enlargement, you'd best change the shutter speed by a factor of 2 as well. Last edited by newarts; 10-24-2009 at 11:16 AM.*

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10-21-2009, 05:27 AM	#31
Mark Morb Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Norfolk, England Posts: 203 Original Poster	Originally posted by Class A I'd give the Sigma 70/2.8 serious consideration. You can shoot critters with it, it does awesome product shots, and it nicely doubles as a portrait lens (personally, I find 100mm or even 90mm too long for this application). In another thread, I posted some more links to Sigma 70/2.8 shots. I don't have that lens yet, but I sure will get it in the not too distant future. Wow...that looks like a great lens..some fantastic shots taken with it in those threads...looks like I've just added another contender to the list....

10-22-2009, 03:37 AM	#32
Damn Brit Guest	In case this might interest you Mark. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/photographers-marketplace/77228-sale-85mm...converter.html

10-22-2009, 05:05 AM	#33
geauxpez Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Atlanta Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,196	Originally posted by Ash A macro lens is rarely set to f/4 shooting a macro shot - DoF would be barely existant! So to me there's no such thing as a 'slow' macro - for macro use, f/8-f/22 would have to be my most important aperture settings. Although I do double-up my FA 100/2.8 as a portrait/event lens as well, and the f/2.8 does come in handy in those situations. I believe my shot posted above was at around f4.5. I was trying to keep the shutter speed up since it was handheld.

10-22-2009, 05:15 AM	#34
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	Originally posted by geauxpez I believe my shot posted above was at around f4.5. I was trying to keep the shutter speed up since it was handheld. Well and good - Gary's already mentioned it, and I'll reiterate that you won't find many situations where you would use f/4 shooting macro shots. Stopping down will be necessary in most cases, thereby needing a tripod - doesn't matter if you have a 'fast' or a 'slow' macro.

10-22-2009, 06:28 AM	#35
Piotr Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Warsaw Photos: Gallery Posts: 338	Originally posted by Mark Morb Hi, I'm keen on adding a good Macro to my collection. .. No, I'm not made of money but I'm selling guitars to finance this...how things change!! Thanks, Mark Mark, maybe it will help you to decide. Here is my story. I started few years ago with FA 100/2.8 Macro. Great lens for macro, works just standalone or with additional tubes, teleconverters and flash. It is extremly sharp and really very handy. Pentax ist DS ,Pentax smc P-FA 100mm f/2.8 Macro +TC1.7 +3tubes (68mm) 1/180s f/22.0 iso200 I started to look for something longer and bought Voigtlander 125/2.5. It is very good macro, sharp as FA 100. Not so handy but weight is similar 695g vs. 600g of FA. It has one great advantage for me - it is perfect portrait lens. There was something wrong with FA 100 as portrait lens. It is my personal opinion but bokeh is much better from Voigtlander 125. Pentax ist DS ,Voigtlander 125mm f/2.5 SL Macro APO-Lanthar 1/180s f/3.5 at 125.0mm iso400 So I sold my FA100. And again I started to look for something smaller. I bought DA35/2.8 Limited which is absolutly amazing lens. So small lens with 1:1 macro. It gives beautiful colours and great bokeh. Pentax K20D ,Pentax smc DA 35mm f/2.8 Macro Limited 1/80s f/5.0 at 35.0mm iso200 But, you need nearly touch the insect to take shot. And again, I did't like it as general purpose lens and to have just 35mm macro not enough. I sold it. Again I started to look for another lens again. I bought Leitz macro-Elmarit 60mm. And found it to be GREAT portrait lens - but not so great for macro. Anyway, I decided to keep it. Last macro is Vivitar Series 1 90/2.5. It is example of great old lens with great capability. Extremly sharp, but because of its construction not so easy to use. It is very powerful as macro lens and in addition great portrait lens. Pentax PENTAX K20D,Vivitar 90 mm f/2.5 Macro 1/40s f4 at 90.0mm iso200 It is not end of history. I'v just bought FA 50/2.8 Macro. more shots from these lenses: Flowers Best of Macro

10-22-2009, 06:39 AM	#36
Mark Morb Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Norfolk, England Posts: 203 Original Poster	Wow, great post Piotr... Interesting journey illustrated with some lovely shots (the Voigtlander seems to just have the edge I think) Thanks :-) Mark

10-23-2009, 03:38 PM	#37
Oggy Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: West Sussex UK Posts: 235	Excellent pictures Piotr - that first one is stunning. I have just this evening got a DFA 100mm F2.8 Macro. Initial impressions are that it is a remarkable lens. In terms of sharpness, it's going to give the mighty DA*300 a run for it's money.

10-24-2009, 10:12 AM	#39
dichro1 New Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: California, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 12	Newarts, can you elucidate the details of the f(1+m) formula? What is f and m? While at it, what is the 1/f rule? (I think in know: 1 over focal length is shutter speed? With digital I believe it is 1crop factor over focal length.)

10-24-2009, 01:36 PM	#41
Jewelltrail Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Rhode Island Photos: Albums Posts: 4,180	I shoot macro with the Tammy 90mm and am happy--it is a great lens and a fantastic bargain, particularly if you can get it with the generous rebate which sometimes appears.

10-24-2009, 02:28 PM	#42
G_Money Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: London, Ontario, Canada Posts: 598	Originally posted by twilight_samurai Hmm.. a unicorn, eh? I just saw this on the local Craigslist.. viogtlander V125 Macro PK Pentax Well, I guess I owe you some kind of finder's fee, twilight. I just got back from Toronto with the aforementioned Voigtländer. Very nice seller, brought the lens from Hong Kong a little over a year ago and only used it a few times. There is a piece of dust on an inside element but other than that it's clean. Thanks for the heads up! On a related note, the ring flashes that I use with my Lester Dine 105mm are 52mm. The Voigtländer takes a 58mm. Does anyone want to make an educated guess if a step-down ring will cause any vignetting? I'm hoping that using the lens at f/11 and beyond will eliminate the risk of this, but if anyone has any experience I'd appreciate your opinions.

10-24-2009, 02:42 PM	#43
twilight_samurai Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Toronto Posts: 288	Originally posted by G_Money Well, I guess I owe you some kind of finder's fee, twilight. I just got back from Toronto with the aforementioned Voigtländer. Very nice seller, brought the lens from Hong Kong a little over a year ago and only used it a few times. There is a piece of dust on an inside element but other than that it's clean. Thanks for the heads up! On a related note, the ring flashes that I use with my Lester Dine 105mm are 52mm. The Voigtländer takes a 58mm. Does anyone want to make an educated guess if a step-down ring will cause any vignetting? I'm hoping that using the lens at f/11 and beyond will eliminate the risk of this, but if anyone has any experience I'd appreciate your opinions. Hey, glad someone from this forum snapped it up! Hope you'll post some images taken with your new acquisition!

10-24-2009, 03:21 PM	#44
creampuff Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Singapore Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,953	Congrats G_Money.

10-26-2009, 04:08 PM	#45
Miguel Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Near Seattle Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,743	G_Money, congratulations on procuring the Voigtlander. I wish I could help you with useful information about ring flash vignetting using the stepped-down ring. I recently obtained a Sigma closeup ring flash, and using it with the Voigtlander is highly satisfying, so I encourage you to pursue ring flash use. K20D, Voigtlander 125mm f11 @ 1/180 [PTTL], ISO 400 M