Caution For Helios 44 Fans and Potential Buyers

Hari · 01-30-2010, 08:21 AM

Originally posted by MattGunn

If you can get the focus ring off easily then you should find a friendly local model engineer to machine the focus ring back. It would only take a few minutes on a lathe but it will take hours to sand it back by hand.

Thank you guys so much for the quick replies!

How many m.m. do you think needs to be sawed off?

I'm trying to use the lens on a Nikon D90 body with an M42 adaptor that retains the infinity focus (somewhat) - I already have a bleeding finger from trying to unscrew the lens from the M42 adaptor ;(

I just stepped into the DSLR world from my little point and shoot so please excuse my questions if they are common knowledge. I did google around a lot but didnt find any answers except here in this forum.

Best Regards,
Hari

stevebrot · 01-30-2010, 12:19 PM

Originally posted by Hari

Thank you guys so much for the quick replies!

How many m.m. do you think needs to be sawed off?

I'm trying to use the lens on a Nikon D90 body with an M42 adaptor that retains the infinity focus (somewhat) - I already have a bleeding finger from trying to unscrew the lens from the M42 adaptor ;(

I just stepped into the DSLR world from my little point and shoot so please excuse my questions if they are common knowledge. I did google around a lot but didnt find any answers except here in this forum.

Best Regards,
Hari

You are very welcome to whatever help we can give you, even if you do shoot Nikon

You have two problems:

The weird focus ring
Infinity focus on the Nikon

The focus ring can be sanded, ground, or machined down. The distance is not very much (a few millimeters) and can be measured by noting the offset from the actual mounting flange. I would probably go as far as the start of the knurling.

As for infinity focus...Nikon cameras have an infinity focus registration just a little bit more than that for M42 (+1.0mm). As a result, M42 lenses do not adapt to Nikon without an auxiliary optic on the rear of the adapter. Unfortunately, that optic often results in image degradation. Solutions vary according to the lens in question. On some lenses (e.g. Zenitar 16/2.8), infinity "run-out" is easily adjustable according to the position of the focus ring itself. This is may be the case with your Helios 44-3. If the "stop" is part of the focus ring, you should be able to simply reassemble the ring so that the index is a little shy of the infinity mark. It will take some trial and error, but might work. (It helps to confirm the infinity focus using a film body with a split-image finder as a reference.)

Again, any other forum members are encouraged to add their advice!

Steve

Jewelltrail · 01-30-2010, 02:04 PM

I want to take as second and thank you, Steve, for this important thread. I have been on the fence about getting one of these lenses, for a long time. I heard about some issues coupling the body to the lens, along with lens wobbling in "successful" mounts. Up to now, I have avoided the purchase, simple because I did not feel confident enough in my understanding of the lens to make that purchase. But this thread, especially with the augmenting it gets from other great posts, (Mel & George, for example) gives me the knowledge I need to proceed with a successful purchase.

Thanks to all!

stevebrot · 01-30-2010, 03:31 PM

Originally posted by Jewelltrail

I want to take as second and thank you, Steve, for this important thread. I have been on the fence about getting one of these lenses, for a long time. I heard about some issues coupling the body to the lens, along with lens wobbling in "successful" mounts. Up to now, I have avoided the purchase, simple because I did not feel confident enough in my understanding of the lens to make that purchase. But this thread, especially with the augmenting it gets from other great posts, (Mel & George, for example) gives me the knowledge I need to proceed with a successful purchase.

Thanks to all!

My pleasure to be of service!

Steve

wowtip · 03-18-2010, 02:01 PM

I got one of these 44-3 cheap. It works with the pentax m42 adapter, but it makes the focus ring hard to move and wont focus to infinity.

So... Next step is removing the focusing ring and grind it down a bit. Have anyone tried this? If so, what did you do, and did it work out alright?

Oh, and I assume you only loosen the tiny tiny screws in the focusing ring to remove it before grinding. Correct?

All advice would be appreciated.

RioRico · 03-18-2010, 02:36 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Hari

I already have a bleeding finger from trying to unscrew the lens from the M42 adaptor ;(

Hint: Don't apply or remove adapter with fingers. Use a rear lens cap as your 'wrench'. Less blood gets into/onto the machinery-floor-table-etc that way.

ducdao · 04-25-2010, 06:34 PM

Hey guys - I just bought an 44-2 and I'm having the tight focus ring issue as described in here. It's an 89xxxx model so I thought I just shared the information here.

You can find out more here

stevebrot · 04-26-2010, 09:45 AM

Originally posted by ducdao

Hey guys - I just bought an 44-2 and I'm having the tight focus ring issue as described in here. It's an 89xxxx model so I thought I just shared the information here.

You can find out more here

Thank you Duc for sharing this. I read your original posting on the other thread and was extremely surprised. Your 44-2 is of fairly recent manufacture and appears to share the same body as the troublesome 44-3. Who would have guessed?

Steve

ducdao · 04-27-2010, 11:17 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

Thank you Duc for sharing this. I read your original posting on the other thread and was extremely surprised. Your 44-2 is of fairly recent manufacture and appears to share the same body as the troublesome 44-3. Who would have guessed?

Steve

Hi Steve, I looked closely at my Helios again and the gap between the mount flange and the focus ring is extremely minimal, not even visible to the eyes. One thing for sure is once installed on to the M42 adapter the focus ring touches the M42 adapter which causes the friction hence makes the focus to be painful. I guess I have take off the focus ring and grind it a little bit, perhaps 0.5mm

MattJPN · 11-18-2010, 07:25 PM

I just purchased a 44-M4 M42 in what I HOPE to be in good condition on ebay. The seller has a good rep and says the lens is clean and was built in 1990... beyond that I won't know until I see it in person. As I am entirely new to this whole world, I was wondering if anyone had any recommendations as for what to do - as in pentax mount vs. 3rd party mount, also - any recommendations for filters?

deadwolfbones · 11-18-2010, 10:00 PM

You want the first-party M42->K adapter.

I don't know why you'd want to use filters, but there're plenty of explanations of those out there.

blende8 · 11-19-2010, 01:06 AM

For completeness sake it might be noted that also other lenses show this problem.
E.g. the Mamiya Sekor SX M42 lenses, at least some of them, have this protruding ring.

**Rense** · 11-19-2010, 02:53 AM

Originally posted by blende8

For completeness sake it might be noted that also other lenses show this problem.
E.g. the Mamiya Sekor SX M42 lenses, at least some of them, have this protruding ring.

Yep! Got a 135mm Mamiya Sekor with this problem!

Ira · 11-19-2010, 03:54 AM

Originally posted by Rense

Yep! Got a 135mm Mamiya Sekor with this problem!

Same here, but mine won't even MOUNT.

Gonna have a friend grind it down for me.

Lloydy · 11-19-2010, 09:26 AM

As an engineer I have mounted a complete lens in a lathe and turned a section of damaged filter thread off the front that was too damaged to be repaired by the usual methods.

I wrapped the lens in one wrap of 50mm wide insulating tape and very gently mounted the lens in a 3 jaw chuck, and at a very slow speed ( alluminium usually requires a fast speed ) and a very sharp carbide tipped too I turned a bit off the lens.

The old Rikenon 135 didn't suffer any damage at all from being spun up in the lathe.

A good machinist would tell you if they were confident of doing the back end of a Helios.

01-30-2010, 12:19 PM	#32
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007 Original Poster	Originally posted by Hari Thank you guys so much for the quick replies! How many m.m. do you think needs to be sawed off? I'm trying to use the lens on a Nikon D90 body with an M42 adaptor that retains the infinity focus (somewhat) - I already have a bleeding finger from trying to unscrew the lens from the M42 adaptor ;( I just stepped into the DSLR world from my little point and shoot so please excuse my questions if they are common knowledge. I did google around a lot but didnt find any answers except here in this forum. Best Regards, Hari You are very welcome to whatever help we can give you, even if you do shoot Nikon You have two problems: The weird focus ring Infinity focus on the Nikon The focus ring can be sanded, ground, or machined down. The distance is not very much (a few millimeters) and can be measured by noting the offset from the actual mounting flange. I would probably go as far as the start of the knurling. As for infinity focus...Nikon cameras have an infinity focus registration just a little bit more than that for M42 (+1.0mm). As a result, M42 lenses do not adapt to Nikon without an auxiliary optic on the rear of the adapter. Unfortunately, that optic often results in image degradation. Solutions vary according to the lens in question. On some lenses (e.g. Zenitar 16/2.8), infinity "run-out" is easily adjustable according to the position of the focus ring itself. This is may be the case with your Helios 44-3. If the "stop" is part of the focus ring, you should be able to simply reassemble the ring so that the index is a little shy of the infinity mark. It will take some trial and error, but might work. (It helps to confirm the infinity focus using a film body with a split-image finder as a reference.) Again, any other forum members are encouraged to add their advice! Steve Last edited by stevebrot; 01-30-2010 at 12:49 PM. Reason: Corrected grievous error...

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
throw caution to the wind	SquintyEyes	Monthly Photo Contests	0	01-11-2010 10:00 PM
M42 Lens Caution	nanhi	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	15	09-02-2009 11:42 AM
Caution some Ebayer's will deceive!	Peter Zack	Photographic Technique	4	08-01-2008 07:08 PM
Caution... Alligators!!!	mtnbearhug	Post Your Photos!	13	03-30-2008 07:25 AM
Caution	normant	Monthly Photo Contests	0	07-04-2007 07:33 PM

01-30-2010, 08:21 AM	#31
Hari New Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 2	Originally posted by MattGunn If you can get the focus ring off easily then you should find a friendly local model engineer to machine the focus ring back. It would only take a few minutes on a lathe but it will take hours to sand it back by hand. Thank you guys so much for the quick replies! How many m.m. do you think needs to be sawed off? I'm trying to use the lens on a Nikon D90 body with an M42 adaptor that retains the infinity focus (somewhat) - I already have a bleeding finger from trying to unscrew the lens from the M42 adaptor ;( I just stepped into the DSLR world from my little point and shoot so please excuse my questions if they are common knowledge. I did google around a lot but didnt find any answers except here in this forum. Best Regards, Hari

01-30-2010, 02:04 PM	#33
Jewelltrail Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Rhode Island Photos: Albums Posts: 4,180	I want to take as second and thank you, Steve, for this important thread. I have been on the fence about getting one of these lenses, for a long time. I heard about some issues coupling the body to the lens, along with lens wobbling in "successful" mounts. Up to now, I have avoided the purchase, simple because I did not feel confident enough in my understanding of the lens to make that purchase. But this thread, especially with the augmenting it gets from other great posts, (Mel & George, for example) gives me the knowledge I need to proceed with a successful purchase. Thanks to all!

01-30-2010, 03:31 PM	#34
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007 Original Poster	Originally posted by Jewelltrail I want to take as second and thank you, Steve, for this important thread. I have been on the fence about getting one of these lenses, for a long time. I heard about some issues coupling the body to the lens, along with lens wobbling in "successful" mounts. Up to now, I have avoided the purchase, simple because I did not feel confident enough in my understanding of the lens to make that purchase. But this thread, especially with the augmenting it gets from other great posts, (Mel & George, for example) gives me the knowledge I need to proceed with a successful purchase. Thanks to all! My pleasure to be of service! Steve

03-18-2010, 02:01 PM	#35
wowtip Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: West coast Photos: Gallery Posts: 261	I got one of these 44-3 cheap. It works with the pentax m42 adapter, but it makes the focus ring hard to move and wont focus to infinity. So... Next step is removing the focusing ring and grind it down a bit. Have anyone tried this? If so, what did you do, and did it work out alright? Oh, and I assume you only loosen the tiny tiny screws in the focusing ring to remove it before grinding. Correct? All advice would be appreciated.

03-18-2010, 02:36 PM - 1 Like	#36
RioRico Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Limbo, California Posts: 11,263	Originally posted by Hari I already have a bleeding finger from trying to unscrew the lens from the M42 adaptor ;( Hint: Don't apply or remove adapter with fingers. Use a rear lens cap as your 'wrench'. Less blood gets into/onto the machinery-floor-table-etc that way.

04-25-2010, 06:34 PM	#37
ducdao Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Montreal/Vermont Posts: 2,160	Hey guys - I just bought an 44-2 and I'm having the tight focus ring issue as described in here. It's an 89xxxx model so I thought I just shared the information here. You can find out more here

04-26-2010, 09:45 AM	#38
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007 Original Poster	Originally posted by ducdao Hey guys - I just bought an 44-2 and I'm having the tight focus ring issue as described in here. It's an 89xxxx model so I thought I just shared the information here. You can find out more here Thank you Duc for sharing this. I read your original posting on the other thread and was extremely surprised. Your 44-2 is of fairly recent manufacture and appears to share the same body as the troublesome 44-3. Who would have guessed? Steve

04-27-2010, 11:17 PM	#39
ducdao Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Montreal/Vermont Posts: 2,160	Originally posted by stevebrot Thank you Duc for sharing this. I read your original posting on the other thread and was extremely surprised. Your 44-2 is of fairly recent manufacture and appears to share the same body as the troublesome 44-3. Who would have guessed? Steve Hi Steve, I looked closely at my Helios again and the gap between the mount flange and the focus ring is extremely minimal, not even visible to the eyes. One thing for sure is once installed on to the M42 adapter the focus ring touches the M42 adapter which causes the friction hence makes the focus to be painful. I guess I have take off the focus ring and grind it a little bit, perhaps 0.5mm

11-18-2010, 07:25 PM	#40
MattJPN New Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Tokyo, Japan Posts: 6	I just purchased a 44-M4 M42 in what I HOPE to be in good condition on ebay. The seller has a good rep and says the lens is clean and was built in 1990... beyond that I won't know until I see it in person. As I am entirely new to this whole world, I was wondering if anyone had any recommendations as for what to do - as in pentax mount vs. 3rd party mount, also - any recommendations for filters?

11-18-2010, 10:00 PM	#41
deadwolfbones Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: La Crescenta, CA Posts: 7,450	You want the first-party M42->K adapter. I don't know why you'd want to use filters, but there're plenty of explanations of those out there.

11-19-2010, 01:06 AM	#42
blende8 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Bremen, Germany Photos: Albums Posts: 1,521	For completeness sake it might be noted that also other lenses show this problem. E.g. the Mamiya Sekor SX M42 lenses, at least some of them, have this protruding ring.

11-19-2010, 02:53 AM	#43
Rense Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Zetten - The Netherlands Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,050	Originally posted by blende8 For completeness sake it might be noted that also other lenses show this problem. E.g. the Mamiya Sekor SX M42 lenses, at least some of them, have this protruding ring. Yep! Got a 135mm Mamiya Sekor with this problem!

11-19-2010, 03:54 AM	#44
Ira Inactive Account Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Coral Springs, FL Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,216	Originally posted by Rense Yep! Got a 135mm Mamiya Sekor with this problem! Same here, but mine won't even MOUNT. Gonna have a friend grind it down for me.

11-19-2010, 09:26 AM	#45
Lloydy Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Shropshire, UK Posts: 1,114	As an engineer I have mounted a complete lens in a lathe and turned a section of damaged filter thread off the front that was too damaged to be repaired by the usual methods. I wrapped the lens in one wrap of 50mm wide insulating tape and very gently mounted the lens in a 3 jaw chuck, and at a very slow speed ( alluminium usually requires a fast speed ) and a very sharp carbide tipped too I turned a bit off the lens. The old Rikenon 135 didn't suffer any damage at all from being spun up in the lathe. A good machinist would tell you if they were confident of doing the back end of a Helios.